80's vs 90's

[QUOTE=97 bulls]this is true but like i said there is an exception to every rule. for the most part this decade is dominated by players drafted in the 90s. and i also said that the more things change the more they stay the same. sam cassel was a rookie and a huge part of the rockets back to back championships. toni kukoc was in his third year and was an integral part of the bulls championship teams
shaq and penny made it to the finals in their 2nd and third years.

in the 80s olajuwan made it to the chip in only his third season i believe[/QUOTE]

Sam Cassell and Toni Kukoc are nowhere near the level of James, Wade, Paul. Thats a terrible comparison.

[QUOTE=nycelt84]Sam Cassell and Toni Kukoc are nowhere near the level of James, Wade, Paul. Thats a terrible comparison.[/QUOTE]

Earlier in the thread he compared Webber and Hardaway to Magic and Barkley:roll: .

[QUOTE=nycelt84]Sam Cassell and Toni Kukoc are nowhere near the level of James, Wade, Paul. Thats a terrible comparison.[/QUOTE]

[B]Kukoc was an All Time Underrated Player!. A 6`11 ft fundamental Smallforward with better ball handling , scoring abilities and even passing ablities than many or most of the SGs a that I see today :rolleyes:. Just go look at the 1992 Barcelona Olympic Games and against the Dream Team and you will realize what I say. This man could have scored over 20 ppg and 5-6 aspg to go along 6-7 rpg for most of his career if he played in a weaker team which relied on him as the Main Focus in his Prime.

In the Bulls he was not the Main Top Scorer and Game Creator because those elements belonged to Jordan and Scottie. Still Kocok was the best 6th man in the league in the early 90s and a Top SF. Toni was a Missmatch for any SF guarding him and some PFs when facing the Bulls in the Mid 90s. Too tall for SFs to guard (hed just shoot or post them up and score) and too Quick and Talented for PFs!.[/B]

[B]He would have been drafteted in 1989-90 too[/B]

[B]I am one of those people that firmly believed Toni should have been a starter SF in those Bulls line ups in the 90s.

C: Longley/Wellington
PF: Rodman
SF: Kucok
SG-PG: Jordan
PG-SG: Pippen[/B]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Earlier in the thread he compared Webber and Hardaway to Magic and Barkley:roll: .[/QUOTE]

[B]Guys that are comperable to Magic are Big O, Stockton, Isiah and Kid. Thats about it.

Guys comperable to Barkley are Malone or Duncan. Thats about it.

Still only Big O would compete with Magic and nowbody would compete with Chalres in his Prime 1985 to 1995. Not eve close:rolleyes: :confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=miles berg]Do you count Shaq and Duncan and as 90s or 00s? Dirk and KG, 90s or 00s? Iverson & Kobe, 90s or 00s?

Is it when they were drafted or when they dominated? I just named 6 first ballot HOFers but the line is very gray. Shaq dominated the 90s and the 00s, where does he go?[/QUOTE]
truthfully, i dont know. my thing is that there isnt much of a difference. all eras had great players obviously some better than others. i really dont know how you can say one era is better than another because of when certain players were drafted. because all careers overlap decades so really its a no win situation. im more interested in why 80s proponents are so hell bent on belittleing the 90s ans 00s. i mean, i remember the 80s and as far as style id say the 80s is the more exciting.but the 80s had their weaknesses too. rampant drug abuse and inflated stats due to pace dont help the 80s.

as far as competition the bulls never really had a team as great as them in my opinion, they were the greatest team assembled best player ever, best defensive player ever, the best rebounder ever, statisticly, the best 3pt shooter ever one of the best european players ever. one of the best benches ever and the best coach ever. and heres were i differ with alot of people its not a knock on the teams they played against or insufficient competition, they were just better than everyone else. if the bulls never existed then there would be a similar magic bird rivalry probably between shaq and olajuwan and barkley and malone. which would mean that you would probably have to give a couple more mvps and a multiple championships to those players which would make them in the same argument with magic and bird.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles]:banghead:

[B]I agree with you that Jordan had quite easy in the early 90s but the 90s still where greater than the 2000s.

Even the late 90s!:rockon: .

In the late 90s you still had:

Iverson
Shaq
Webber
Kemp
Kidd
G.Hill
Vin Baker (Could have been Greater)
Kevin Jhonson
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Hakeem
Malone
Stockton
Robinson
Drexler
Hardaway
Miller
Ewing

[/B][/QUOTE]

You can do that for nearly any era. I mean, I can make a laundry list of players right now:

LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Tracy McGrady
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Elton Brand
Baron Davis
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Ray Allen
Carlos Boozer

That's just 20 guys off of the top of my head that are absolute superstars.

Carmelo Anthony, Jermaine ONeal, Chris Bosh, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Andre Iguodala, Ron Artest, Kevin Martin, Brandon Roy, Al Jefferson, Rudy Gay, etc....the list is just so long, not to mention young superstars like Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, & Derrick Rose that have yet to make their mark on the league.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Guys that are comperable to Magic are Big O, Stockton, Isiah and Kid. Thats about it.

Guys comperable to Barkley are Malone or Duncan. Thats about it.

Still only Big O would compete with Magic and nowbody would compete with Chalres in his Prime 1985 to 1995. Not eve close:rolleyes: :confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]

Please, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, and Amare Stoudemire would all drop 35+ on a prime Barkley, right now. No way in hell he could guard those guys. Everyone wants to live in the past but the guys today are better than any era of NBA players ever and the NBA today is the best it has been since '93. It took a decade to get over expansion and salary caps and all the free agency and stuff but todays NBA is loaded with some of the greatest players to ever play in this league.

[QUOTE=nycelt84]Sam Cassell and Toni Kukoc are nowhere near the level of James, Wade, Paul. Thats a terrible comparison.[/QUOTE]
i was comparing those two players to ginobli and parker. two players who were integral parts of championships in their early years olajuwan was also in that post. when did i compare them to james, wade, and paul

bulls were just too good with the goat pippen kukoc and the goat rebounder and good bench guys

Well, I take that back. Any era with Jordan, Magic, and Bird all dominating is the best, atleast so far. There have never been 3 guys in the league at the same time as great as those three were. Not all dominating at the same time like they did.

Thats why the 80s were so great.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Kukoc was an All Time Underrated Player!. A 6`11 ft fundamental Smallforward with better ball handling , scoring abilities and even passing ablities than many or most of the SGs a that I see today :rolleyes:. Just go look at the 1992 Barcelona Olympic Games and against the Dream Team and you will realize what I say. This man could have scored over 20 ppg and 5-6 aspg to go along 6-7 rpg for most of his career if he played in a weaker team which relied on him as the Main Focus in his Prime.

In the Bulls he was not the Main Top Scorer and Game Creator because those elements belonged to Jordan and Scottie. Still Kocok was the best 6th man in the league in the early 90s and a Top SF. Toni was a Missmatch for any SF guarding him and some PFs when facing the Bulls in the Mid 90s. Too tall for SFs to guard (hed just shoot or post them up and score) and too Quick and Talented for PFs!.[/B]

[B]He would have been drafteted in 1989-90 too[/B]

[B]I am one of those people that firmly believed Toni should have been a starter SF in those Bulls line ups in the 90s.

C: Longley/Wellington
PF: Rodman
SF: Kucok
SG-PG: Jordan
PG-SG: Pippen[/B][/QUOTE]

So what if he's underrated, he's nowhere near as being as good as Chris Paul, Lebron James or D-Wade. His best season is not as good as either of their worst seasons.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Earlier in the thread he compared Webber and Hardaway to Magic and Barkley:roll: .[/QUOTE]
im not the only person to compare the two.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Kukoc was an All Time Underrated Player!. A 6`11 ft fundamental Smallforward with better ball handling , scoring abilities and even passing ablities than many or most of the SGs a that I see today :rolleyes:. Just go look at the 1992 Barcelona Olympic Games and against the Dream Team and you will realize what I say. This man could have scored over 20 ppg and 5-6 aspg to go along 6-7 rpg for most of his career if he played in a weaker team which relied on him as the Main Focus in his Prime.

In the Bulls he was not the Main Top Scorer and Game Creator because those elements belonged to Jordan and Scottie. Still Kocok was the best 6th man in the league in the early 90s and a Top SF. Toni was a Missmatch for any SF guarding him and some PFs when facing the Bulls in the Mid 90s. Too tall for SFs to guard (hed just shoot or post them up and score) and too Quick and Talented for PFs!.[/B]

[B]He would have been drafteted in 1989-90 too[/B]

[B]I am one of those people that firmly believed Toni should have been a starter SF in those Bulls line ups in the 90s.

C: Longley/Wellington
PF: Rodman
SF: Kucok
SG-PG: Jordan
PG-SG: Pippen[/B][/QUOTE]

i firmly agree he would have been a 20 7 and 7 guy as a stater

[QUOTE=nycelt84]So what if he's underrated, he's nowhere near as being as good as Chris Paul, Lebron James or D-Wade. His best season is not as good as either of their worst seasons.[/QUOTE]

no one said he was. and if you took it like that i apologize

[QUOTE=miles berg]You can do that for nearly any era. I mean, I can make a laundry list of players right now:

LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Tracy McGrady
Dwyane Wade
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Elton Brand
Baron Davis
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Ray Allen
Carlos Boozer

That's just 20 guys off of the top of my head that are absolute superstars.

Carmelo Anthony, Jermaine ONeal, Chris Bosh, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Andre Iguodala, Ron Artest, Kevin Martin, Brandon Roy, Al Jefferson, Rudy Gay, etc....the list is just so long, not to mention young superstars like Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, & Derrick Rose that have yet to make their mark on the league.[/QUOTE]

[B]Question for you.

Would any of those teams beat The Best Selection Team of the late 90s?

C: Shaq (Hakeem/Robinson, Mutumbo)
PF: Malone (Webber, Barkley, Duncan, Garnett, Kemp, Rodman)
SF: Pippen (Grant Hill...)
PG: Stockton (Kidd, Penny Hardaway..)
SG: Jordan (Iverson...)

:no:

Would Any of those Teams Beat The Best Selection Team of the Late 80s and Early 90s?

C: Hakeem (Robinson, Ewing, Kareem, Moses, Eaton, Laimbeer, Brad Daugherty, Shaq)
PF: Barkley (Malone, McHale, healthy Ralph Samson or Derrick Coleman, Rodman, Oakley, Mahorn)
SF: Bird (Wilkins, Worthy, Pippen, Tom Chambers, Alex English...)
PG: Magic (Stockton, Isiah, KJ, Tim Hardaway, Sidney Moncrief)
SG: Jordan (Drexler, Bernarding King, Dumars, Rolando Blackman, Dantley)

:hammerhead:

:violin: [/B]