Is Shaq top 5 ever? Why, why not?

"Top 5 ever" begs a discussion regarding careers.

I'm not so sure if he's top 5, on that note.

But as far as actual peak for a season or two? There isn't a single player in league history I'd take over prime Shaq. Not one.

[QUOTE=symbol33]imo, TD is absolutely nothing without DR, and if without DR, he could not get the title in 1999 (that shrink season) and NY only had rookie Camby to struggle the other two big guys. not consider 1999, TD did not get any back to back title, with johnson, elit, gino and parker, thinking that he seldom encouraged his teammates at the emergency moment but DR do that. TD was absolutely not a good leader but DR did, so that's Robinson > Tim D[/QUOTE]
That has to be one of the dumbest thing i've ever read. duncan without Robinson has won a ring, won the MVP, defensive player of the year and he is one of the best players at making his teammates look great. there is no better two way big man in the nba then timmy right now.

[QUOTE=DCL]is english your 4th language? there has to be a reason.[/QUOTE]

yes, english is actually my 4th language. there may be some error in my spelling, but i do think that you know what i am talking about.

[QUOTE=symbol33]that's the point.

Bird got 3, but competed to strong LA, what does Shaq done? only Portland in WCF made them into trouble, and that's Kobe standed out and saved LA, not Shaq.[/QUOTE]

Yes, because Kobe would have been in that position without Shaq right?
1 game saved by Kobe, does not equal anywhere near the copious amount of games Shaq has brought L.A. back.

[QUOTE=symbol33]imo, TD is absolutely nothing without DR, and if without DR, he could not get the title in 1999 (that shrink season) and NY only had rookie Camby to struggle the other two big guys. not consider 1999, TD did not get any back to back title, with johnson, elit, gino and parker, thinking that he seldom encouraged his teammates at the emergency moment but DR do that. TD was absolutely not a good leader but DR did, so that's Robinson > Tim D[/QUOTE]

Camby wasn't a rookie, He went to the Knicks in his third season from Toronto.

On Shaq.... He has the awards and credentials to be considered a top 5 all time, but its very argueable....

Perhaps he is the most dominant player all time...but top 5 best is argueable. however if Shaq had played in the 70s or 80s, when i dont believe the players were as athletic as nowadays, then his stats would be even better.

yeah why not? :banghead:

[QUOTE=EricForman]Yes. What has Duncan done since DRob retired in 2003? Dude basically disappeared off the face of the earth since then. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

2 ****ing championships dumb****! thats wut he's done!

In my opinion, there's more to being top 5 then just achievements. For me, the fact that Shaq took regular season games off because he wasn't dedicated is a big negative. I also think he is very limited as a player. He was never an elite post defender, despite his size and athleticism. He was limited offensively because he was only effective inside 8-10 feet. His offense consisted of establishing position, then making a strong move to the hoop. If he got in foul trouble, he could be rendered ineffective in a game. If the hack-a-shaq was implemented, the majority of the time he could be held in check. To me, these are big issues I have with putting him in top 5.

Also, if he's a top 5 player because of his effectiveness, then why hasn't he been a 20/10 player the past few years? He's been in good shape recently (aside from some injuries), and this year he's in great shape. He quit in Miami because he wasn't winning. He wasn't winning because he can't carry a team anymore if other guys get injured. Why is such a potent, top 5 force, so ineffective right now? Because he's not that good of a player. He was just abusing inferior opponents in his prime with brute force.

[QUOTE=AllenIverson3]Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Tim Duncan[/QUOTE]


Prime Duncan is no where near shaq's prime

and it's stupid to compare players like this, it should be by position...

[QUOTE=Showtime]In my opinion, there's more to being top 5 then just achievements. For me, the fact that Shaq took regular season games off because he wasn't dedicated is a big negative. I also think he is very limited as a player. He was never an elite post defender, despite his size and athleticism. He was limited offensively because he was only effective inside 8-10 feet. His offense consisted of establishing position, then making a strong move to the hoop. If he got in foul trouble, he could be rendered ineffective in a game. If the hack-a-shaq was implemented, the majority of the time he could be held in check. To me, these are big issues I have with putting him in top 5.

Also, if he's a top 5 player because of his effectiveness, then why hasn't he been a 20/10 player the past few years? He's been in good shape recently (aside from some injuries), and this year he's in great shape. He quit in Miami because he wasn't winning. He wasn't winning because he can't carry a team anymore if other guys get injured. Why is such a potent, top 5 force, so ineffective right now? Because he's not that good of a player. He was just abusing inferior opponents in his prime with brute force.[/QUOTE]

Did shaq hurt you?

i remember when mutumbo came in here crying...

[QUOTE=AllenIverson3]2 ****ing championships dumb****! thats wut he's done![/QUOTE]

ya.......forman, i acually think U dissapered, cuz duncan has been balling ever since d rob retired.....altho i hate d rob's and duncan's guts..

[QUOTE=rawimpact]Did shaq hurt you?

i remember when mutumbo came in here crying...[/QUOTE]
No, just putting my opinion on Shaq out there. He's one of the best at his position because of his achievements and production, but I feel there's more to it than that in regards to being in the highest spots.

I take Shaq in his prime over evey single player in history including Jordan/KAJ/Wilt etc. Dude was literally unstopable.:bowdown:

[QUOTE=Showtime]In my opinion, there's more to being top 5 then just achievements. For me, the fact that Shaq took regular season games off because he wasn't dedicated is a big negative. I also think he is very limited as a player. He was never an elite post defender, despite his size and athleticism. He was limited offensively because he was only effective inside 8-10 feet. His offense consisted of establishing position, then making a strong move to the hoop. If he got in foul trouble, he could be rendered ineffective in a game. If the hack-a-shaq was implemented, the majority of the time he could be held in check. To me, these are big issues I have with putting him in top 5.

Also, if he's a top 5 player because of his effectiveness, then why hasn't he been a 20/10 player the past few years? He's been in good shape recently (aside from some injuries), and this year he's in great shape. He quit in Miami because he wasn't winning. He wasn't winning because he can't carry a team anymore if other guys get injured. Why is such a potent, top 5 force, so ineffective right now? Because he's not that good of a player. He was just abusing inferior opponents in his prime with brute force.[/QUOTE]

See thats what I don't get.

People complain about how he got his points. Brute strength, so what? Lebron gets a large number of points like that and no one complains.

Also you say he is ineffective now? He is one of the most efficient players when he is on the court. He is very productive in the 25 minutes he spends on court. You expect him to be scoring 20 and 10 now at his age? What were Wilt and Kareem averaging at this age?
His effectiveness spans to over 14 years of getting at least 20 and 10 each season. Furthermore the greatest finals numbers ever seen.

Implement the hack a Shaq the majority of the time? He is still doing his job, either way, getting other players in foul trouble and the team over the limit. This is the exact reason why Wade got soo many foul shots in the finals against Dallas. They kept fouling him and Wade dropped 40 a night.

Furthermore, he still averaged what, 14 and 8 last year. That is good enough for something like 3rd or 4th best center in the NBA.

[QUOTE=Showtime]In my opinion, there's more to being top 5 then just achievements. For me, the fact that Shaq took regular season games off because he wasn't dedicated is a big negative. I also think he is very limited as a player. He was never an elite post defender, despite his size and athleticism. He was limited offensively because he was only effective inside 8-10 feet. His offense consisted of establishing position, then making a strong move to the hoop. If he got in foul trouble, he could be rendered ineffective in a game. If the hack-a-shaq was implemented, the majority of the time he could be held in check. To me, these are big issues I have with putting him in top 5.

Also, if he's a top 5 player because of his effectiveness, then why hasn't he been a 20/10 player the past few years? He's been in good shape recently (aside from some injuries), and this year he's in great shape. He quit in Miami because he wasn't winning. He wasn't winning because he can't carry a team anymore if other guys get injured. Why is such a potent, top 5 force, so ineffective right now? Because he's not that good of a player. He was just abusing inferior opponents in his prime with brute force.[/QUOTE]

You act like Shaq was completely ineffective on defense. He is the sole reason a lot of teams took jumpshots instead of driving inside looking for a layup. Those who did drive, were forced to change shots mid air. He is one of the most underrated defenders, he was a force inside.

Furthermore Shaq has achievments over some of the players most people consider in the top 5. I think after Shaq retires he will finally get the respect he deserves.