Gervin " "I could get 30 or 40 every night real easy, these days"

I always fing it funny when old dudes are acting like everything was better in their time...get real people - everything is evolving and improving, that includes basketball as well. Players are taller, bigger, stronger, defences are much tougher to break due to employment of various zone combinations, especially back there in Europe,where coaches are applying different zones for different opponents...NBA as well has gotten better, there are less iso's, 1-on-1 plays, team defence is winning championships ( Spurs, Pistons, recently Celtics). George was a phenomenal player BACK THEN, not so sure he would be as such nowadays with a same skillset, you just never know

[QUOTE=madmax]I always fing it funny when old dudes are acting like everything was better in their time...get real people - everything is evolving and improving, that includes basketball as well. Players are taller, bigger, stronger, defences are much tougher to break due to employment of various zone combinations, especially back there in Europe,where coaches are applying different zones for different opponents...NBA as well has gotten better, there are less iso's, 1-on-1 plays, team defence is winning championships ( Spurs, Pistons, recently Celtics). George was a phenomenal player BACK THEN, not so sure he would be as such nowadays with a same skillset, you just never know[/QUOTE]

[B]Players Bigger? Stronger? False :no: :rolleyes:

Havent seen another 6`5-6`5 bigger or stronger than Barkley yet
Haven`t seen another stronger or taller PG than Magic Johnson yet
Haven`t seen another more agil, athletic or stronger SG than Jorda yet
Haven`t seen another 7`4 PF that can dribble and move like a SG like Ralph Sampson yet.
Haven`t seen another more agil Center than Hakeem yet
Haven`t seen another a 6`10er that has an 8 foot winspan yet like McHale

Players of today are at average more athletic than the past (still have not seen any free throw line dunkers like Jordan, Dr. J, Drexler, Pippen etc) but skill wise, fundamentals wise, b-ball IQ, passing game wise etc they have decreased big time :confusedshrug:

Tougher Defense? With free lines for perimter players? With no handchecking allowed? With touch fouls called? With 5 second rule back to the basket? with no physical play alloed? Funny! [/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Players Bigger? Stronger? False :no: :rolleyes:

Havent seen another 6`5-6`5 bigger or stronger than Barkley yet
Haven`t seen another stronger or taller PG than Magic Johnson yet
Haven`t seen another more agil, athletic or stronger SG than Jorda yet
Haven`t seen another 7`4 PF that can dribble and move like a SG like Ralph Sampson yet.
Haven`t seen another more agil Center than Hakeem yet
Haven`t seen another a 6`10er that has an 8 foot winspan yet like McHale

Players of today are at average more athletic than the past (still have not seen any free throw line dunkers like Jordan, Dr. J, Drexler, Pippen etc) but skill wise, fundamentals wise, b-ball IQ, passing game wise etc they have decreased big time :confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]

See that is absolute trash.

I can say we haven't seen a player like Howard ever.
We have never seen a player like James ever.
Ron Artest would give Barkley a run for his money, as well as Big Ben.
A player the size of Yao with the same skillset.

[QUOTE=plowking]See that is absolute trash.

I can say we haven't seen a player like Howard ever.
We have never seen a player like James ever.
Ron Artest would give Barkley a run for his money, as well as Big Ben.
A player the size of Yao with the same skillset.[/QUOTE]

[B]Wrong :confusedshrug:

You still havent named me a 7`4 C-PF like Sampson whom could dribble the ball like a G was as Quick as SG and could leap like a SG

You sill havent named me a 6`9 Point Guard that could Post Up and also play PF-SF like Magic.

You still havent named me SG more athletic, quick and strong as Michael.

You still havent named a 6`4/6`5 dude like Charles whom could rebound amonst Centers and Intimidte the hell out of them to the point they where afraid to even speak to him.

Skilled PFs of today i just see two: Duncan and Garnett other than that skill wise in the 80s and early 90s you had:

James Worthy: 6`9 fastest quickstep onto the rim ever
McHale: 6`10er with an 8 ft winspan that had more Post Moves than any Pf Ever.
Barkley: Greatest Potentent-Speed Of Dribble Scoring PF Ever, Master of the Coast to Coast, Most Unstoppable and Varied Scorer from the 2-Point Line, Greates Low Post Spin Ever for the PF position etc
Malone: 6`9 Built like a Wrester that could Run the Floor Back and Forth like none PF today and his Arms where made of steel.
Ralph Sampson: 7`4 PF that was as quick as the fastest SFs, could handle the ball like a G and could leap like any SF.
Derrick Coleman: With Barkley the Best Ballhandling PF Ever and Best Passing PF Ever, Left hand Mid Range and this man had More Set of Moves and Skills than Duncan had Garnett together
Roy Tarpley. Think of Garnett and James Worthy Mixed Toghether. Defense like Garnett, Skill and Speed like a James Worthy and was lefty too. Scary? Yes.

Any C as quick, agil and skilled as Hakeem today?

Back in the 80s-90s it was Jabbar, Moses Malone, Hakeem, Ewing, Brad Daugherty (Best Ball Handling Center Ever) and Robinson then Shaq

Now today what do we have? Aged Shaq and Yao? thats it!...

Handchecking Dissllowed (Creating False Jordans), 5 Seconds Rule Off the Basket (Anti Stocky Players playing Defense), Puss***** Fouls, Pathetic Passing Game (thank god they are brining in Non American players like Ginobili, Gasol and Nash whom can pass not just fake pass), No Rough Play Inside the Paint etc..

The Leagues Actual Level is Weak: Skill-Fundamentally and Talent Wise.

Period :rolleyes: [/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Players Bigger? Stronger? False :no: :rolleyes:

Havent seen another 6`5-6`5 bigger or stronger than Barkley yet
Haven`t seen another stronger or taller PG than Magic Johnson yet
Haven`t seen another more agil, athletic or stronger SG than Jorda yet
Haven`t seen another 7`4 PF that can dribble and move like a SG like Ralph Sampson yet.
Haven`t seen another more agil Center than Hakeem yet
Haven`t seen another a 6`10er that has an 8 foot winspan yet like McHale

Players of today are at average more athletic than the past (still have not seen any free throw line dunkers like Jordan, Dr. J, Drexler, Pippen etc) but skill wise, fundamentals wise, b-ball IQ, passing game wise etc they have decreased big time :confusedshrug:

Tougher Defense? With free lines for perimter players? With no handchecking allowed? With touch fouls called? With 5 second rule back to the basket? with no physical play alloed? Funny! [/B][/QUOTE]

Hows CP3 for fundamentals and passing. Averages less turnovers then almost all point guards before him. Has probably one of the best assist to turnover ratios.

Are you kidding me, look at Vince, the greatest dunker ever. He could dunk it from the free throw line, he simply chose the safe option in the dunk contest.

There is more double teaming now. Players who drive are often greeted by 3 players that collapse on them. Players are forced to take jumpshots.

Also James White absolutely dominantes every free throw line dunker you mentioned. In his last dunk contest in Turkey, he took off a foot behind the line and windmilled it. I'd say thats a lot better then your free throw line dunkers.

BBall IQ? How are we supposed to measure that. People simply come in here and say all the legends had great bball IQ simply to sound knowledgable.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Wrong :confusedshrug:

You still havent named me a 7`4 C-PF like Sampson whom could dribble the ball like a G was as Quick as SG and could leap like a SG

You sill havent named me a 6`9 Point Guard that could Post Up and also play PF-SF like Magic.

You still havent named me SG more athletic, quick and strong as Michael.

You still havent named a 6`4/6`5 dude like Charles whom could rebound amonst Centers and Intimidte the hell out of them to the point they where afraid to even speak to him.

Skilled PFs of today i just see two: Duncan and Garnett other than that skill wise in the 80s and early 90s you had:

James Worthy: 6`9 fastest quickstep onto the rim ever
McHale: 6`10er with an 8 ft winspan that had more Post Moves than any Pf Ever.
Barkley: Greatest Potentent-Speed Of Dribble Scoring PF Ever, Master of the Coast to Coast, Most Unstoppable and Varied Scorer from the 2-Point Line, Greates Low Post Spin Ever for the PF position etc
Malone: 6`9 Built like a Wrester that could Run the Floor Back and Forth like none PF today and his Arms where made of steel.
Ralph Sampson: 7`4 PF that was as quick as the fastest SFs, could handle the ball like a G and could leap like any SF.
Derrick Coleman: Best Ballhandling PF Ever, Second Best Passing PF Ever, Left hand Mid Range and this man had More Set of Moves and Skills than Duncan had Garnett together
Roy Tarpley. Think of Garnett and James Worthy Mixed Toghether. Defense like Garnett skill and Speed like Worthy and was lefty too. Scary? Yes.

Any C as quick, agil and skilled as Hakeem today?

Back in the 80s-90s it was Jabbar, Moses Malone, Hakeem, Ewing, Brad Daugherty (Best Ball Handling Center Ever) and Robinson then Shaq

Now today what do we have? Aged Shaq and Yao? thats it!...

Handchecking Dissllowed (Creating False Jordans), 5 Seconds Rule Off the Basket (Anti Stocky Players playing Defense), Puss***** Fouls, Pathetic Passing Game (thank god they are brining in Non American players like Ginobili, Gasol and Nash whom can pass not just fake pass), No Rough Play Inside the Paint etc..

The Leagues Actual Level is Weak: Skill-Fundamentally and Talent Wise.

Period :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

Now name me some players back then who compared to the ones I mentioned.

Bryant is very similar to Jordan. Wade is just as strong at 230lbs.

Ron Artest may not be as good a rebounder as Ron Artest but I'm sure he intimidates opponents and is just as strong if not stronger. 6'6 and 260lbs.
Ben Wallace is 6'7 and 255lbs.

Lebron is your modern day Magic buddy.

Hows CP3 for fundamentals and passing. Averages less turnovers then almost all point guards before him. Has probably one of the best assist to turnover ratios.

[B]Less Turnovers because there is no Handchecking:rolleyes: [/B]

Are you kidding me, look at Vince, the greatest dunker ever. He could dunk it from the free throw line, he simply chose the safe option in the dunk contest.

Ok Ill give you out names of great Dunkers of them..Who Tops Them?

[B]Drexler, Air Jordan, Dominique, Dr J could steap dunk from the free throw line and could get his head over the rim in common dunks. Larry Nace and Tom Chambers 6`10 that could leap like SGs. [/B]

There is more double teaming now. Players who drive are often greeted by 3 players that collapse on them. Players are forced to take jumpshots.

[B]More Double Teaming Now? Its the same **** as before in the 80s it was also done to Guard Great Players, the difference is the man you already had could hold you and feel where you went.[/B]

Also James White absolutely dominantes every free throw line dunker you mentioned. In his last dunk contest in Turkey, he took off a foot behind the line and windmilled it. I'd say thats a lot better then your free throw line dunkers.

Could that James White appart from Dunking Play, Score, Pass, Steal etc like Jordan, Drexler, Nique, the Doctor? :oldlol:

BBall IQ? How are we supposed to measure that. People simply come in here and say all the legends had great bball IQ simply to sound knowledgable.[/QUOTE]

[B]IQ is at its lowest ever. Magic said it before in 96, Jordan said it when he retired, Barkley said it, Kukoc said it...etc.:confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles]Hows CP3 for fundamentals and passing. Averages less turnovers then almost all point guards before him. Has probably one of the best assist to turnover ratios.

[B]Less Turnovers because there is no Handchecking:rolleyes: [/B]

Are you kidding me, look at Vince, the greatest dunker ever. He could dunk it from the free throw line, he simply chose the safe option in the dunk contest.

Ok Ill give you out names of great Dunkers of them..Who Tops Them?

[B]Drexler, Air Jordan, Dominique, Dr J could steap dunk from the free throw line and could get his head over the rim in common dunks. Larry Nace and Tom Chambers 6`10 that could leap like SGs. [/B]

There is more double teaming now. Players who drive are often greeted by 3 players that collapse on them. Players are forced to take jumpshots.

[B]More Double Teaming Now? Its the same **** as before in the 80s it was also done to Guard Great Players, the difference is the man you already had could hold you and feel where you went.[/B]

Also James White absolutely dominantes every free throw line dunker you mentioned. In his last dunk contest in Turkey, he took off a foot behind the line and windmilled it. I'd say thats a lot better then your free throw line dunkers.

Could that James White appart from Dunking Play, Score, Pass, Steal etc like Jordan, Drexler, Nique, the Doctor? :oldlol:

BBall IQ? How are we supposed to measure that. People simply come in here and say all the legends had great bball IQ simply to sound knowledgable.[/QUOTE]

[B]IQ is at its lowest ever. Magic said it before in 96, Jordan said it when he retired, Barkley said it, Kukoc said it...etc.:confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]


Yes, its always handchecking. Well FG% is higher back then due to no zone.

Vince, Josh Smith, Howard, Gerald green could all more then likely get their head at rim level. BTW Vince is a better dunker then all of them. Also Jason Richardson is amazing. Find me any of those guys doing a between the legs off the board.

Howard is 6'11 and is a better dunker then both Chambers and Nance. How about Amare? Still has springs even after surgery.

You asked for guys who could dunk from the free throw line. I gave you one. Far better.


Once again, former players saying that their era is better. Nothing new.

Bryant is very similar to Jordan. Wade is just as strong at 230lbs.

[B]Similar but not evel close Talent, Skill, Athletic, Strength etc wise.

Wade as strong as Jordan? Please...:rolleyes: [/B]

Ron Artest may not be as good a rebounder as Ron Artest but I'm sure he intimidates opponents and is just as strong if not stronger. 6'6 and 260lbs.
Ben Wallace is 6'7 and 255lbs.

[B]Can they out rebound guys like Anthony Mason 6`7 ft 265, Charles Oakley, Rick Mahorn, Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman, McHale, 7`0 Kevin Willis, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Mark Eaton, Daugherty, Webber, Kemp? etc like Barkley did :oldlol: [/B]

Lebron is your modern day Magic buddy

[B][B]Except Magic can Pass Way Better, Create WAY WAY Better, Dribble Way Better, Shoot Way Better from Mid range, THINK WAY WAY BETTER , Rebound Way Better (Can Play PF and C Too), Shoot From the Line Better etc..and Lebron is a SF not a PG...[/B]

The Games Level of Talent/Skill-Fundamentals- Court IQ-Passing Game-Tounghness-Will To Win- Has Gone Down Compared to Before Its a Fact that One Must Learn To Accept[/B]:sleeping

[B]Any 7`4 guy that can Dunk, Leap, As AGil, Quick, Handle the Ball like Sampson today? :no:
Any Center like Hakeem that can play like a SG from the Center Spot?[/B] :no:

[B]Its not former players saying there era was better Magic said it in 95-96 with a worried look on his face in an interview (i will seek for it in youtube it should be there)...1980s draft players ruled the league til 1999 and also ruled the 80s. Very few 1990s draft players where on the level of the 80s draft players, very few.

There is a reason why the NBA`s ratings are not the same as the 90s and 80s.[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles]Bryant is very similar to Jordan. Wade is just as strong at 230lbs.

[B]Similar but not evel close Talent, Skill, Athletic, Strength etc wise.

Wade as strong as Jordan? Please...:rolleyes: [/B]

Ron Artest may not be as good a rebounder as Ron Artest but I'm sure he intimidates opponents and is just as strong if not stronger. 6'6 and 260lbs.
Ben Wallace is 6'7 and 255lbs.

[B]Can they out rebound guys like Anthony Mason 6`7 ft 265, Charles Oakley, Rick Mahorn, Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman, McHale, 7`0 Kevin Willis, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Jabbar, Mark Eaton, Daugherty, Webber, Kemp? etc like Barkley did :oldlol: [/B]

Lebron is your modern day Magic buddy

[B][B]Except Magic can Pass Way Better, Create WAY WAY Better, Dribble Way Better, Shoot Way Better from Mid range, THINK WAY WAY BETTER , Rebound Way Better (Can Play PF and C Too), Shoot From the Line Better etc..and Lebron is a SF not a PG...[/B]

The Games Level of Talent/Skill-Fundamentals- Court IQ-Passing Game-Tounghness-Will To Win- Has Gone Down Compared to Before Its a Fact that One Must Learn To Accept[/B]:sleeping[/QUOTE]

You change your criteria everytime. First you were asking for unique athletes. Then you say "they can't do this, they can't do that", then I find you a player again and the cycle continues.

There are just as many unique players today as before. Find me a player like Lebron. Find me one like Howard. Find me one like Yao.

Go on, I am waiting.

[QUOTE=plowking]You change your criteria everytime. First you were asking for unique athletes. Then you say "they can't do this, they can't do that", then I find you a player again and the cycle continues.

There are just as many unique players today as before. Find me a player like Lebron. Find me one like Howard. Find me one like Yao.

Go on, I am waiting.[/QUOTE]

[B]Magic was like Lebron except he had a Post Up Game, Had the Hook Shoot, Could Pass Better from any where on the Court and Was a Better Rebounder. Magic could Play PG, Point PF (not just Point SF) and Center!

Yao? Well Look for Ralph Sampson: Could Ball Handle like a G, Be as Quick as a G, as Versetaile as SF and could Actually Leap[/B]

Sir Charles, would you mind not bolding your post? Its kinda of an eye sore for me, sorry

[QUOTE=Nash-tastic]Sir Charles, would you mind not bolding your post? Its kinda of an eye sore for me, sorry[/QUOTE]

Really, its usually what he writes thats sore on the eyes.

[B][U]Average NBA Height Year By Year from 1985 to 2008[/U]:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]1985-86 = 6’ 7.36” [/COLOR]
[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]1986-87 = 6’ 7.62” [/COLOR] [/SIZE] (Tallest Year in NBA History)
[COLOR="DarkRed"]1987-88 = 6’ 7.38"[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]1988-89 = 6’ 7.31” [/COLOR]
1989-90 = 6’ 7.09”

1990-91 = 6’ 7.16”
1991-92 = 6’ 7.04”
1992-93 = 6’ 7.06”
[COLOR="DarkRed"]1993-94 = 6’ 7.34” [/COLOR]
1994-95 = 6’ 7.19”
1995-96 = 6’ 7.27”
1996-97 = 6’ 7.20”
1997-98 = 6’ 7.11”
1998-99 = 6’ 7.10”
1999-00 = 6’ 7.26”

2000-01 = 6’ 7.03”
2001-02 = 6’ 7.26”
[COLOR="DarkRed"]2002-03 = 6’ 7.40” [/COLOR]
[COLOR="red"]2003-04 = 6' 7.31" [/COLOR]
2004-05 = 6' 7.26"
2005-06 = 6' 7.18"
[I]2006-07 = 6' 6.93" (Shortest In the Last 22 years)
2007-08 = 6' 6.98" (Shortest In the Last 23 years)[/I]

It actually looks like that at "Average"... NBA "Average Heights" have gotten shorter from the mid 80s to the 2000s :roll: :rolleyes: :confusedshrug: [/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B][U]Average NBA Height Year By Year from 1985 to 2008[/U]:

[COLOR="DarkRed"]1985-86 = 6