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[QUOTE=plowking]Can't shoot, can't score.
Nash's only weakness is man to man defense.[/QUOTE]
Defense is more important than scoring.
Prime Kidd>>>>Prime Nash
Prime Kidd could score you're fibbing....he just couldn't shoot the J consistantly....Nash started out as Kidd's understudy which is funny. {considering this convo}
Stop playing:lol
[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]I'm sry those were not the Pg's i had in mind when I said slightly above average[/QUOTE]
In terms of raw numbers and production, Rondo gave up more than Nash this season... So did Billups... And Kidd...
I like Nash but I rather have him lose in the WCF than the Finals against the Celtics.
That being said unlike Vince Carter at least you can respect Nash. VC is a joke and its a bigger travesty that anyone thought he was better than Kobe once upon a time.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]Defense is more important than scoring.
Prime Kidd>>>>Prime Nash
Prime Kidd could score you're fibbing....he just couldn't shoot the J consistantly....Nash started out as Kidd's understudy which is funny. {considering this convo}
Stop playing:lol[/QUOTE]
Good thing he didn't take advice from Kidd seeing as he ended up being the better player. Easily as well.
Defense is more important than scoring? Sure... that's why Magic, Bird, Shaq, Wilt, Jordan were considered some of the greatest...
Kidd couldn't score. Putting up 19ppg on 41% shooting in your best scoring season isn't scoring the ball. It's chucking. He's not taking some huge mass of shots. He can't even pick his spots and score the ball, he had to chuck.
Someone who's career average is 13.6ppg on 40% shooting clearly can't score.
Prime Kidd>Prime Nash? At what? Because it isn't basketball.
17/11/7 on 44/36/76 vs 19/12/4 on 53/46/90...
One is clearly better than the other...
[QUOTE=EricForman]kobe's greater yeah.
he also has much more talented teammate and help.
outside of Kobe/Nash, five of the next six best players are in Lakers uniform.
The Lakers did what they were supposed to do. Only idiots would brag and talk trash and act like Nash failed. Nash, with that cast, going this far? That's overachieving on a epic level.[/QUOTE]
That's interesting. The roles were reversed in 2005-2006 and 2006-2007. How come Kobe doesn't get praised for taking the Suns to game 7? For whatever reason, he always gets blamed even though he took a team to the playoffs that relied on production from Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, and Luke Walton.
Defense is less important than offense for a PG, face it.
[QUOTE=OmniStrife]Defense is less important than offense for a PG, face it.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
Is that why Mo Cheeks has a ring and Nash has none?
Is that why Nash hasn't made it the Finals and Kidd made it twice at least {at Plowking}?
Defense wins championships.
If Offense won championships Nash and his Suns teams would have wona ring already.
The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Bulls, Pistons, and Rockets all played great team D.
[QUOTE=plowking]Good thing he didn't take advice from Kidd seeing as he ended up being the better player. Easily as well.
Defense is more important than scoring? Sure... that's why Magic, Bird, Shaq, Wilt, Jordan were considered some of the greatest...
Kidd couldn't score. Putting up 19ppg on 41% shooting in your best scoring season isn't scoring the ball. It's chucking. He's not taking some huge mass of shots. He can't even pick his spots and score the ball, he had to chuck.
Someone who's career average is 13.6ppg on 40% shooting clearly can't score.
Prime Kidd>Prime Nash? At what? Because it isn't basketball.
17/11/7 on 44/36/76 vs 19/12/4 on 53/46/90...
One is clearly better than the other...[/QUOTE]
Shooting =/= scoring imo
Teams forced Kidd to do what he wasn't good at which was shoot from distance and he never had a Dirk or Amare in his prime to help score he had Kenyon and Kerry.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]:oldlol:
Is that why Mo Cheeks has a ring and Nash has none?
Is that why Nash hasn't made it the Finals and Kidd made it twice at least {at Plowking}?
Defense wins championships.
If Offense won championships Nash and his Suns teams would have wona ring already.
The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Bulls, Pistons, and Rockets all played great team D.[/QUOTE]
So you'd take a prototype player of Ben Wallace over a prototype player of Michael Jordan with Nash's defensive ability? One of the best defenders versus one of the best offensive players.
Lets have a look over DPOY.
Sidney Moncrief - no championships
Eaton - no championships
Alvin Robinson - no championships
Mutombo - none
Payton - only won in his last season when he wasn't anywhere near a good defender, so none essentially
Artest - none
Howard - none
Camby - none
Garnett, Jordan, Cooper, Mourning, Wallace and Rodman are the only ones out of the DPOY to win a championship.
Notice anything about those names? They all won on stacked teams bar Wallace, who's team was built of offense.
Defense is no where near as important as putting the ball through the hoop, which is what basketball is about.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]Shooting =/= scoring imo
Teams forced Kidd to do what he wasn't good at which was shoot from distance and he never had a Dirk or Amare in his prime to help score he had Kenyon and Kerry.[/QUOTE]
17/8 from Kenyon, 15/6 from Jefferson and 13/4 from Kittles isn't enough?
[QUOTE=plowking]So you'd take a prototype player of Ben Wallace over a prototype player of Michael Jordan with Nash's defensive ability? One of the best defenders versus one of the best offensive players.
Lets have a look over DPOY.
Sidney Moncrief - no championships
Eaton - no championships
Alvin Robinson - no championships
Mutombo - none
Payton - only won in his last season when he wasn't anywhere near a good defender, so none essentially
Artest - none
Howard - none
Camby - none
Garnett, Jordan, Cooper, Mourning, Wallace and Rodman are the only ones out of the DPOY to win a championship.
Notice anything about those names? They all won on stacked teams bar Wallace, who's team was built of offense.
Defense is no where near as important as putting the ball through the hoop, which is what basketball is about.[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to argue with you.
Defense wins championships.
Two WAY players are needed along with good fortune and teammates.
DEFENSE>>>>>OFFEENSE youngsta.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]I'm not going to argue with you.
Defense wins championships.
Two WAY players are needed along with good fortune and teammates.
DEFENSE>>>>>OFFEENSE youngsta.[/QUOTE]
So why is it all the best offensive players are considered better?
Why is Bird better than Mutombo? Why is Magic better than Ben Wallace?
A cohesive offensive structure has always been better to have. If you have a good half court offense, you will always be amongst the best teams in the league. Same can't be said for defense. See how the number 1 defensive side in the Bobcats did this year? Good sweep...
[QUOTE=Go Getter]:oldlol:
Is that why Mo Cheeks has a ring and Nash has none?
Is that why Nash hasn't made it the Finals and Kidd made it twice at least {at Plowking}?
Defense wins championships.
If Offense won championships Nash and his Suns teams would have wona ring already.
The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Bulls, Pistons, and Rockets all played great team D.[/QUOTE]
Defense wins championships, sure... But not PG defense.
PG has 1000000000 times more impact on offense or not.
[QUOTE=plowking]So why is it all the best offensive players are considered better?
Why is Bird better than Mutombo? Why is Magic better than Ben Wallace?
A cohesive offensive structure has always been better to have. If you have a good half court offense, you will always be amongst the best teams in the league. Same can't be said for defense. See how the number 1 defensive side in the Bobcats did this year? Good sweep...[/QUOTE]
Jordan is the best player ever because he played both sides of the ball.
Wilt was a great defender of the paint.
And so was prime KAJ
Olajuwon was a shot blocking menace
John Stockton had sticky fingers and so did Zeke
ISWYDT...you compared two of the best with players that were defensive specialists but not stars.
Most championship teams are balanced but if you ask their coaches and players they are anchored with team defense.
Great champions might not be the best defenders but they aren't a total and complete liability on D like Nash.
[QUOTE=Go Getter]
Great champions might not be the best defenders but they aren't a total and complete liability on D like Nash.[/QUOTE]
Yet Nash in terms of raw numbers and production doesn't give up the most out of PG's. Kidd, Billups and even Rondo give up more on defense.