Wilt the "Choker"

[QUOTE]Wilt's scoring from regular season to playoffs went down every single year of his career (sometimes by a lot) on lower efficiency (.547 to .523). Obviously facing better teams and facing Russell (who held Wilt to 5.7 ppg under his career average in their 147 meetings) had something to do with it, but Wilt failed to step up his game and it didn't help his teams in the playoffs.

[/QUOTE]

Wilt's scoring dropped SLIGHTLY from his regular seasons into his post-seasons. Most uneducated posters forget that Wilt's "scoring prime", when he could dump 40-50 point games on Russell, Thurmond, Bellamy, and Reed, came in his first seven years. He played in 52 of his 160 post-season games in that period, and averaged 32 ppg, 27 rpg, and shot .510 (in league's that shot about .430.)

You mentioned Russell. Excellent point...a player regarded by MANY as the greatest defensive player in NBA HISTORY. And yet, Chamberlain averaged 28.7 ppg against him in their 142 H2H meetings, and probably at close to 50% shooting in those games. He had three full SEASONS against Russell, in which he averaged 38 ppg. And, while his scoring dropped somewhat against Russell in the post-season, he STILL had FOUR post-season series against him in which he averaged 30+ ppg, including one in which he averaged 30 ppg and 31 rpg, in a seven game series. He also had a 29-27 .517 Finals against Russell; a 28 ppg, 30.2 rpg, .509 ECF's against Russell; and how about his '67 ECF', when he hung a 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, .558 series against him. Wilt also shot .549 against Russell in their nine H2H games in the regular season that year, as well.

BTW, Russell's numbers generally declined considerably against Wilt, as well. Even in the 61-62 ECF's, when he upped his scoring against Wilt to 22 ppg, he shot at around .420 against Wilt, in a season in which he shot .457 overall. How about the '64 Finals? Russell averaged 11 ppg, and while I have yet to see his FG% against Wilt in their five H2H games, in his 10 playoff games that year, he shot .356, and half of those games were against Wilt.

In fact, in Russell's highest FG% season, 59-60, in which he shot .467 overall, in 10 of his 11 H2H games (I have yet to find the FG% in that 11th game), Russell shot .398 against Wilt.

In the '67 ECF's, Wilt held Russell to .358 shooting.

And Russell shot .702 in the '65 Finals against the Lakers, but in the previous round against Wilt, he shot .451 (which may very well have been his HIGHEST playoff series against Chamberlain.)


And, in Wilt's first eight post-seasons, covering his first nine seasons, he averaged 29.3 ppg, 26.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, and shot .518 (in league's that averaged about .435.) Included in those years were FOUR 50+ point playoff games, with a 53-22 game, on 24-42 shooting, against Syracuse in the '60 playoffs; a 50-35 game (on 22-42 shooting) against Russell in a "must-win" game five of the '60 ECF's; a 56-35 game five, in a best-of-five playoff series, against Syracuse in the '62 playoffs; and a 50 point game, on 22-32 shooting, against the Hawks in the '64 WCF's. He also had THREE other 40-30 games against Russell in the post-season. He also had THREE playoff series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, and 38.6 ppg (on .559 shooting.) And, he had FOUR entire playoffs of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg (on .543 shooting), 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg.

So, if that is a "declining" Wilt, please feel free to give me a list of other players who even had ONE 28+-23+ post-season. BTW, Chamberlain had SIX of them!


[QUOTE]In the regular season , Wilt was on some of the best teams in his era. Most seem to assume that Wilt just didn't have the supporting cast to contend with the greatest dynasty ever. This is not the case. His 1967 Sixers were named the best team ever in 1980, and he had that team's core (Wilt, Greer, Walker, Cunningham, Jackson) for 3 years straight, and also had the best SG in West and best SF in Baylor (up to that point) for a couple years after, forming a trio that Wilt himself said he thought could go down as the greatest team of all time. Talented rosters that won a lot in the regular season and had high expectations in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Wilt came to a LAST PLACE team, that, in his rookie season, he carried to a 49-26 record, which was a team record at the time. His rosters got WORSE each year until mid-way thru the 64-65 season, when he was traded to a Sixer team that had gone 34-46 the year before. He IMMEDIATELY took that team to a 3-1 series romp over Oscar's 48-32 Royals in the first round. And THEN, he took that same roster, which had gone 34-46 the year before, to a game seven, one point loss against Russell's 62-18 Celtics.

Wilt had a very good Arizin in Arizin's last three years. He had "HOFer" Tom Gola, for three seasons, who was among the worst HOFers ever, AND, who was AWFUL in the post-season. The man had a career .336 post-season FG% (and yes, he was just as bad with, and without Wilt.) And Chamberlain had Nate Thurmond for one season, in Nate's rookie year, and playing part-time, and out of position, and shooting .395 in the process. That was basically IT. Players like Meschery and Rogers were decent, but hardly among the better players. In fact, Meschery would have been Boston's TENTH best player in the 62-63 season.

How bad were those rosters? Before the start of the '63-64 season, the Warriors newest head coach, Alex Hannum, conducted a pre-season scrimmage, sans Wilt, and against draftees and scrubs who would never make an NBA roster. Guess which team won? Furthermore, Wilt somehow got that cast of misfits to a 48-32 record, and a trip to the Finals, where they lost to a Celtic team that had an 8-2 edge in HOFers.

Speaking of an edge in HOFers...Russell's Celtics enjoyed an edge of 7-3, 8-3, 7-3, 9-1, 8-2, and 6-2 in HOFers in Wilt's first six seasons. And yet, Wilt took two of his putrid rosters to game seven's against those Celtic teams, and losses by 2 and 1 point. And he also took one team to the Finals, where they fell, 4-1 (but two losses were in the waning seconds.)

Not only that, but how much help did Wilt receive from those teammates in those five post-seasons (his team was so awful in 62-63, that they didn't even make the playoffs...despite a season in which Wilt averaged 44.8 ppg, led the NBA in rebounding at 24.3 rpg, and shot a then-record, .528...and oh BTW, his teammates collectively shot .412)? Those teammates shot .382, .380, .354, .352, and even .332 in those five post-seasons. Now, you tell me how Wilt got those crappy rosters, and all of whom played WORSE in the post-season, to two game seven's against the vaunted Celtic Dynasty?

Continued...

[QUOTE]When the playoffs arrived, however, it was a different story. Wilt's failures:

1961: Wilt's 46-33 Warriors are swept by the 38-41 Nationals

1962: Wilt, at the height of his scoring prowess having averaged 50.4 ppg in the regular season, is held to a season-low 22 points in the 7th and deciding game by Bill Russell

1966: Wilt's 55-25 Sixers lose 4-1 to the 54-26 Celtics

1967: Wilt's single impressive playoff run, nearly averaging a triple double. The 68-13 Sixers soundly beat the Celtics 4-1, proving that this was a championship caliber core

1968: The same Sixers (with Wilt winning season MVP) go 62-20 and lose to the 54-28 Celtics in 7 games after being up 3-1. In Game 7 Wilt did not attempt a field goal in the 2nd half

1969: One of the most talented trios ever in Wilt, West, and Baylor go 55-25 and win the regular season series 4-2 against the 48-34 Celtics, proving again Wilt had the talent to beat them. The Lakers were heavily favored against the Celtics in the Finals. But again, Wilt laid another 7th game egg against the Celtics when he "hurt his leg" with 6 minutes to go and did not play the rest of the game

1970: Wilt's Lakers return to the Finals, this time against the Knicks. Reed missed game 6 due to injury and Wilt demolished the Knicks to send it to a 7th game. So what happened in Game 7? You guessed it: another stinker by Wilt's 21 points (1-11 from the line) against a hobbling, injured Reed and his backups[/QUOTE]

Let's actually start with Wilt's ROOKIE season, when completely turned around a LAST-PLACE franchise. In the playoffs, he SINGLE-HANDEDLY carried that inept cast of clowns thru Syracuse, in a series in which he averaged 37 ppg, and 24 rpg...while holding his opposing center, multiple all-star, Red Kerr, to 14 ppg, 8 rpg, and get this... .294 shooting. THEN, Chamberlain put up a 30+ ppg series against Russell, despite injuring his hand in game three (and having one of his worst playoff games in game four), and which included a 50-35 game five, in a must-win WIN.

True, Wilt's 60-61 Warriors were swept by Syracuse, 3-0. The ONLY time in Wilt's 14 season career in which he didn't make it past the first round. But let's take a closer look, shall we? All Wilt did was average 37 ppg, 23 rpg, and shoot .467 (which was low for Wilt, but it came in a league that shot .415.) He faced Kerr again, and while I don't have Kerr's numbers against Wilt in that series, in his entire playoffs, he averaged 9.5 ppg, 12.4 rpg, and shot .341. And, how about Wilt's teammates? They collectively shot .332. But, yes, let's blame WILT for that sweeping loss.

Wilt SINGLE-HANDEDLY carried his 61-62 Warriors past Syracuse in the the '62 playoffs. Once again, in game five, of a best-of-five series, all Wilt did was hang a 56-35 game on the Nationals. Then, he put up a 34-26 .468 series against Russell in the ECF's. And before someone mentions that that was well below Wilt's 50.4 .506 regular season, in their H2H regular season games, Chamberlain averaged 38 ppg on .471 shooting against Russell. So, no, it was NOT a dramatic drop.

And, only an uneducated poster would bring up Wilt's game seven of 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Actual game recaps credited Wilt with playing GREAT defense. Furthermore, Wilt was called for a very questionable goal tend late in the game. And, he also contributed a three-point play in the waning seconds to tie the game. Then, he nearly blocked Sam Jones game-winner. Oh, and BTW, he had two 40-30 games against Russell, including a 42-37 game in which he held Russell to a 9-20 game...and the result? A seven point win. Which clearly illustrated what Wilt faced. He had to have monumental games for his team to win. In any case, Wilt's teammates collectively shot .354 in that post-season. Maybe someone can explain to me just how Wilt got them as far as he did.

You mention '66. Wilt LED his Sixers to the BEST RECORD in the league, at 55-25. And all he did along the way was lead the league in scoring, at 33.5 ppg; lead the league in rebounding, at 24.6 rpg; and set a then-record FG% mark of .540. He even found time to hand out 5.2 apg. Still, Philly had to win their last 11 games to overtake Boston, and the reality was, the Celtics were the seven-time defending champs. Ok, so what happened. Boston routed Philly, 4-1. How did Wilt fare in that series? He averaged 28 ppg, 30.2 rpg, and shot .509. Included in that series, was a clinching game five loss performance of 46 points, and 34 rebounds, and on 19-34 shooting. Now, how did Wilt's teammates respond? They collectively shot .352 from the field. Yep...WILT's fault.

No reason to cover Wilt's '67 run, which many observers claim as the greatest season, and greatest post-season ever. One quick point, though. Remember how Wilt hung that 46-34 game five on Russell the year before, in a clinching loss? Well, Russell was faced with the exact same circumstances in game five of the '67 ECF's. He quietly put up a four point, 2-5 FG shooting, 21 rebound game...while all Chamberlain did was score 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 13 assists, and 36 rebounds. Where was Russell when he was so desperately needed?

Continued...

Only a complete idiot would look at Wilt's 67-68 playoffs, and say that he choked. His team, which ran away with the best record in the league, was DECIMATED by injuries. HOFer Billy Cunningham didn't play a game in the ECF's. And even then, the Sixers were good enough to go up 3-1. BUT, in game five, BOTH Philly starters, Luke Jackson and Wali Jones suffered leg injuries, and were worthless the rest of the series. Then, in game seven, Wilt only TOUCHED the ball NINE times in the entire second half at the offensive end, and only TWICE in the 4th quarter (and both were offensive rebounds.) And while he was NOT getting the ball, his teammates collectively shot .333 from the floor in that game. The result? A 100-96 loss. And even then Wilt still outscored Russell, 14-12, and outrebounded Russell, 34-26.

Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain PLAYED the last FIVE games of that series with SEVERAL foot and leg injuries, including a tear of his quad muscle. Even Russell commented that "a lessor man would not have played." In any case, we KNOW that neither Kareem, nor Reed, would have played under those circumstances. So, once again who got the blame? Of course, it was WILT.

As for Wilt "laying an egg" in game seven of the '69 Finals? Let's REALLY take a closer look, shall we? The Lakers were down by 17 points with about 10 minutes left in the game. They started a furious rally, and with a little over six minutes left, Wilt grabbed a defensive rebound, and his outlet led to a basket that cut the margin to nine. However, he injured his knee on that play (the VERY SAME KNEE that he would reinjure early in the '70 season, and which would require major surgery.) Still, he limped around for one more sequence, and grabbed yet another defensive rebound, which led to two more FTs, and now a seven point deficit. So, in the matter of about three minutes, LA had chopped TEN points off that 17 point deficit. HOWEVER, Wilt HAD to come out. Even his incompetent coach would later claim that Wilt's injury was legitimate. After a couple of minutes went by, Wilt asked to go back in. Van Breda Kolf refused, and instead went with the great Mel Counts, who missed a couple of shots down the stretch (en route to a 4-13 game), and the Lakers lost that game by two points. In that game seven, and playing in only 43 minutes to Russell's 48, all Wilt did was outscore Russell, 18-6; outshoot Russell from the field, 7-8 to 2-7; even outscored Russell from the line, 4-13 to 2-4; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21. And yet, who was blamed for the series loss? Of course, it was WILT.

BTW, in game four of that series, in which LA was leading 2-1, the Lakers led 88-87 with only a few seconds left... and they had the ball. But, Johnny Egan lost the ball, and Sam Jones hit the game-winner, at the buzzer, while falling down. Given the fact that the Lakers romped over Boston in game five, 117-104 (and in a game in which Wilt pounded Russell), that ONE PLAY cost the Lakers a 4-1 series win. And, while Wilt got the brunt of the blame, where was Baylor in games three thru five, (two of the losses), when he scored a TOTAL of 24 points (and even a 1-5 performance from the line in that game four, one point loss)? And, he flopped badly in game seven, too, shooting 8-22 (.363) from the floor. In fact, he was the Lakers WORST shooter in the entire post-season.

And, while Duncan4MVP brings up Wilt's "stinking" performance in game seven of the '70 Finals...all Wilt did in that game was score 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds...while the "heroic" Reed put up a 4 point, 3 rebound, 2-5 game. Oh, and how about the rest of Wilt's teammates in that game seven? They collectively shot .418...and were at 33% in the first half, when NY ran away with the game.

[QUOTE]1-11 from the foul in Game 7 of the NBA Finals and this is supposed to be the GOAT?
[/QUOTE]

Once again, a truly unresearched statement. Wilt shot 1-11 from the line in that game. However, he was 1-8 in the first half...and when the Knicks had blown open the game, 69-42. To say that Wilt's FT shooting cost them that was completely ridiculous.

BUT, Duncan forgot to point out two things. Wilt STILL had a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, .625 FG% series, which is the ONLY 20-20 .600 Finals in NBA HISTORY. And, while he was quick to point out the fact that Reed was hobbled in the last three games...he somehow forgot to bring up the fact that Wilt, himself, was only FOUR MONTHS removed from MAJOR KNEE surgery. The SAME surgery that Baylor took over a YEAR to recover from (and in fact, he was never the same.)

BTW, the Knicks had FOUR HOFers that season (going 60-22), along with a deep bench, and a HOF coach.

Duncan then brings up the '73 Finals. A Finals in which West was nursing TWO injured knees, and Happy Hairston was nowhere near 100%. And, BTW, the Knicks roster had SIX HOFers on it. Still, all four of LA's losses were in the final minute (by scores of 4, 4, 5, and 9 points.) And, in the LAST game (and Wilt's LAST game), Chamberlain put a 23 point, 21 rebound, 9-16 game.


Oh, and Duncan4MVP forgot to bring up a 34 year-old Wilt, only a year removed from major knee surgery, battling a statistically prime Kareem to a statistical draw in the '71 WCF's (and playing without BOTH West and Baylor.) BTW, in the last game of that series, and when Wilt came out late, he received a STANDING OVATION...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE.

Nor did Duncan4MVP bring up Wilt's 71-72 post-season, when he was hailed by ALL as outplaying a Kareem in Kareem's finest season, in leading the Lakers past the defending champion Bucks. Then, Wilt dominated the Knicks, and their FIVE HOFers, including a clinching game five performance of 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds (the entire NY team had 39 BTW), and 9 blocks. Oh, and Wilt was PLAYING in that game with one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED. Here again, you would never have caught Kareem playing under those circumstances.


Chamberlain played in 160 post-season games. You would be hard-pressed to find very many, if any, in which he was "average." He was seldom outscored )and he overwhelmed his opposing centers in his "scoring" years.) I could only find one series, in his 29, in which he was outshot from the field (and that by a .457 to .452 margin, in a series in which he missed 20 shots, and Kareem missed 107.) And, he was NEVER outrebounded in any of those 29 post-season series. And in many of those, he CRUSHED his opposing centers.

And, BTW, how come Duncan4MVP didn't bring up Wilt's OPPOSING center's numbers in his post?

In the '60 playoffs, Wilt held Kerr to .296 shooting (while just murdering him in EVERY facet of the game.)

In the '62 ECF's, Wilt held Russell, who had shot .457 over the course of the regular season, to around .420 shooting.

In the '64 Finals, we can only make an educated guess that Wilt must have held Russell to considerably below his regular season FG% of .433. Russell shot .356 in his ten post-season games, and half of those were against Wilt.

In the '67 ECF's, Wilt held Russell, who had shot .454 during the regular season, to .358 shooting.

In the '67 Finals, Wilt not only shot .560 against Thurmond, he held Nate to .343 shooting (in a year in which Thurmond shot .437.)

In the '68 playoffs, Wilt held Bellamy, who had shot .541 during the regular season, to .421 shooting.

In the '69 playoffs, Wilt outshot Thurmond, .500 to .392.

In the '71 WCF's, Wilt outshot Kareem, who had shot .577 during the regular season, .489 to .481.

And in the '72 WCF's, Wilt held Kareem, who had shot .574 in the regular season, to .457 shooting (including .414 over the course of the last four pivotal games of that series.)


Hopefully we have a little better understanding of what REALLY transpired in Wilt's post-season career.

[QUOTE=Horatio33]It's funny how many lengths Jlauber goes to to defend Wilt the Stilt. If Wilt needs defending that much, he must have been shaky in the clutch.

[B]Also the the free throw shooting is interesting. If Wilt was missing 8 freebies in a game and his team lost by 4 points, what does that say? But we will blame his teammates when he was the number one option shooting the ball 30+ times a game[/B].

Plus Jlauber goes on and on about Wilt's 'superhuman' physical skills. If he was so much more physicaly dominant than the other players why do you defend him. why could he not win every year? If no one could stop him why did he only win two rings?[/QUOTE]

My god, what is wrong with you people?

So, if Wilt goes 4-11 from the line, and his team loses by six points...BUT, he scores 30 points on 13-20 shooting, grabs 25 rebounds, blocks 10 shots, gets 6 assists, and holds his opposing center to 10 points on 4-13 shooting, with 15 rebounds,...AND, Wilt's teammates collectively shoot .360 from the field...it is WILT's fault that his team loses?????!!!!!

How about all the MANY horrible post-season games that Bird had from the field? The man had HORRIBLE post-seasons? He was part of SEVEN teams that lost with HCA, including a sweeping loss in '83. Or in arguably his greatest regular season, in 87-88, shooting .351 against the Pistons (and the same Piston team that Magic would just torch in the Finals with a 22 ppg .550 series?) Or Bird having as many games in the Finals, in which he shot under 40%, 11, as he did in shooting over 50% (including THREE of under 30%)? The man shot .455 in his five Finals, ...and yet, how come no one brings up the fact that his awful shooting probably cost Boston MANY games in the post-season?

How about Kareem shooting .428, .457, and .405 from the field in three successive post-season playoff series? How about Kareem being outplayed in a game seven of the Finals, at home, in a blowout loss, by Dave Cowens? How about Kareem shooting .462 from the field, and being outplayed by Moses and his 40-42 Rockets in '81? How about Kareem being unable to grab a rebound against Moses in '83, in a sweeping loss? How about Kareem going 7-25 from the field in a pivotal game five of the '84 Finals, and only shooting .481 from the floor in that series? How about Kareem's game seven in the '88 Finals, which is arguably the WORST game seven ever played by an all-time great?

How about Russell meekly going like a lamb to slaughter in the clinching game five blowout loss against Wilt and his Sixers in the '67 ECF's?

I could go right down the line with EVERY "great" player. Yet, we have idiotic posters here who rip Wilt for his poor FT shooting, even when he just overwhelmed opposing teams, and often with his teammates just blowing chunks all over the floor.

Once again... the famous "Wilt Double Standard."

I continue to read posters here who claim that Wilt "wilted" in the post-season.

One more time children...

Here are Chamberlain's post-season numbers:

Thru Chamberlain's "scoring" seasons, 1959-60 thru 1965-66, Wilt averaged 32.8 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, and on a .505 FG%, in league's that averaged .426 shooting in that span...or WAY over the league average. And, keep in mind that Wilt's roster was so horrible in his 62-63 season, that his team failed to make the playoffs...in a year in which he averaged 44.8 ppg on .528 shooting.

32.8 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, .505 (in league's that shot .426)



Thru Wilt's absolute prime, 1959-60 to 1966-67, when Chamberlain led the Sixers to a 68-13 record, and a world title.

30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, .515 FG% (in league's that shot .428 in that span)


Thru Wilt's 11th season, and in the year in which he was injured...

25.8 ppg, 25.6 rpg, 4.4 apg, .524 FG% ( in league's that shot .433 over that span.)


Think about that...in Wilt's first 11 seasons, covering 10 post-seasons, he averaged a 26-26-4 .520 (in league's that shot .430)


And once again, in his NINE game seven's in his post-season career, Chamberlain averaged 24.4 ppg, 26.3 rpg, and shot .626... which is not only the highest FG% ever in game seven's by an all-time "great"...it was achieved in league's that shot about .435 on average.

And again, Wilt DRAMATICALLY affected the numbers of his opposing centers in the playoffs. In fact, on average, his opposing centers shot between 5-10% lower than their regular season numbers (e.g., Russell shooting .358 in a year in which he shot .454; Thurmond shooting .343 in a year in which he shot .437; Bellamy shooting .421 in a year in which he shot .541; Kareem shooting .481 in a year in which he shot .577; and Kareem again, shooting .457 in a year in which he shot .574.)


How much help did Wilt receive from his teammates in the post-season?

In his first seven seasons, covering six post-seasons, Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot .382, .380, .354, .352, .352, and even .332. In that span, Wilt STILL carried FOUR teams to the ECF's, and a fifth team to a FINALS. Included in those post-seasons, were two game seven losses to the great Celtic Dynasty, by margins of 2 and 1 point.

In the 67-68 playoffs, a VERY hobbled Wilt, nursing SEVERAL injuries, still got his team, which was DECIMATED by injuries, to a game seven, where they not only forgot to pass the ball to Chamberlain, they also collectively shot .333.

In the 68-69 game seven of the Finals, Chamberlain shot .875 from the field (and was on the BENCH in the last five minutes of the game...thanks to his COACH), while his teammates collectively shot .360 (including Baylor going 8-22 from the field.)

In game seven of the 69-70 Finals, and in a first half in which Wilt's team was blown off the court, Chamberlain scored 11 points on 5-10 shooting, with 12 rebounds...while his teammates collectively shot .333.

In the 70-71 playoffs, Wilt was without BOTH West and Baylor (and Erickson went down early in the post-season, as well.)

And in Wilt's LAST post-season, and in the Finals, and in a series in which all four Laker losses were decided in the last minute (losses by 4, 4, 5, and 9 points), Wilt shot .524 in the series...while his teammates collectively shot .426.


BTW, Chamberlain shot .560 over the course of his SIX Finals, with a LOW of .517 (on a 29 ppg average and against Russell in '64), and with a HIGH of .625 (in a seven game series in '70.) He also shot .600 in the '72 Finals, when he led LA to a title, and in which he won the FMVP. And he outshot the great Thurmond in the '67 Finals, .560 to .343, in leading the Sixers to an overwhelming title.


Hopefully the posters here will read this before they blindly throw out this nonsense that Wilt "wilted" in the post-season.

What the hell, Jlauber, you need to get a life and stop wasting your time on nonsense. First of all, NO ONE reads those garbage essays you put up, they are too long and things you could write in 3 lines takes 2 pages for you, you retard.

And now if anyone would have the time to read something that long basketball-related they would google it to find the source you got it from. Instead of reading your extremely biased essays we all can go to google and find the source you got it from. It's already confirmed that you didn't see the games you spam about so why the hell would anyone read your extremely biased posts when we all can do what you did... GOOGLE IT.:facepalm

You have no credibility, why don't you get that?

[QUOTE=millwad]What the hell, Jlauber, you need to get a life and stop wasting your time on nonsense. First of all, NO ONE reads those garbage essays you put up, they are too long and things you could write in 3 lines takes 2 pages for you, you retard.

And now if anyone would have the time to read something that long basketball-related they would google it to find the source you got it from. Instead of reading your extremely biased essays we all can go to google and find the source you got it from. It's already confirmed that you didn't see the games you spam about so why the hell would anyone read your extremely biased posts when we all can do what you did... GOOGLE IT.:facepalm

[B]You have no credibility, why don't you get that[/B]?[/QUOTE]

This coming from the liar that stated that Hakeem was not outrebounded by Barkley until the 99-00 season (when in fact Barkley outrebounded him in all of the seasons they played together); and who claimed that Wilt was seldom double-teamed. And that Wilt did not block 15 of Kareem's sky-hooks in the 71-72 playoffs (which I proved you right...it was probably more like 20+.) And who claimed that Hakeem did NOT guard Kareem in Abdul Jabbar's 40 point explosions against him.

As for GOOGLE, you might want to try using it yourself, since you continually make an ass of yourself with non-factual posts.

I read these essays... I appreciate the research.

[QUOTE=jlauber]This coming from the liar that stated that Hakeem was not outrebounded by Barkley until the 99-00 season (when in fact Barkley outrebounded him in all of the seasons they played together); and who claimed that Wilt was seldom double-teamed. And that Wilt did not block 15 of Kareem's sky-hooks in the 71-72 playoffs (which I proved you right...it was probably more like 20+.) And who claimed that Hakeem did NOT guard Kareem in Abdul Jabbar's 40 point explosions against him.[/QUOTE]

Dude, me "lying" was me not being aware of the situation a la Hakeem not guarding Kareem during in his rookie season. It wasn't even important to me to start with, I don't judge players based on how they perform in their rookie year, you clown. And yes, Wilt was double-teamed way less than later all-time great center.

And you never proved Wilt blocking 15 of Kareem's skyhooks.
And haha, you dirty ass old fart, I never wrote that Barkley didn't outrebound him 'til the '00 season, I recalled it incorrectly when you wrote about the year Hakeem got outrebounded by 4 a game by Barkley. I did NEVER write that it was first in the '99 season that Barkley outrebounded Hakeem.

And it's funny, me "lying" or you lying. You claimed that Hakeem got crushed by Shaq in the '95 finals, that Hakeem was a worse player then Thurmond. That Kareem got "crushed" by Wilt in the '72 playoffs while he outscored Wilt with the 23 points per game on better FG% and outassisting Wilt and also shooting FT's twice as good as Wilt, haha. Sure, he "CRUSHED" Kareem.

In fact, you're so dumb that when you tried to defend Wilt regarding him having to face way shorter players in his statprime you brought up players who never even played in the league at the same time as Wilt and players who never even played in the NBA.. Great knowledge, idiot.

And still, we all know you have no credibility, but read what I wrote above it. No one reads your essays, they are garbage and you are spending scary much time on defending Wilt on the internet. You are 56 years old, I doubt that you have any family but if you do, do they consider you to be a normal person? Your obsession with a basketball player who retired almost 40 years ago and who you barely saw play is just scary. I honestly believe that you have some kind of mental disorder, I honestly do and you should probably get a time at some psychiatrist or doctor, your behaviour and obsession really reminds me of people with Aspergers syndrome.

[QUOTE=RobertdeMeijer]I read these essays... I appreciate the research.[/QUOTE]

Don't waste your time, they are no researchs, you can easily check up the truth by googling what he is googling and then you'll get the true story. Not his extremely biased version.

[QUOTE]And yes, Wilt was double-teamed way less than later all-time great center.[/QUOTE]

What kind of defenses did Wilt face in his NBA career?

[url]http://biography.jrank.org/pages/233...lain-Wilt.html[/url]


Quote:
[B]Several of the rules of college basketball had to be changed as a result of Chamberlain's talents[/B], which simply dwarfed those of previous players. [B]Opposing players double-and triple-teamed him and played a slowed-down game rather than attempt to confront Chamberlain's offensive skills head-on[/B]. These techniques helped the University of North Carolina defeat Kansas 54-53 in triple overtime in the 1957 championship game.

Such tactics also frustrated the rapidly developing Chamberlain, who startled the basketball world by turning professional rather than returning to Kansas for his senior year. NBA rules forbade him from joining the league until the year in which he would have graduated from college, so Chamberlain played for the razzle-dazzle touring professional team the Harlem Globetrotters during the 1958-59 season. He joined the Philadelphia Warriors in 1959, having already collected a large bonus for signing.

Individual Triumphs in NBA
Chamberlain was an NBA star from the beginning, leading the league in scoring and rebounding, and taking home honors not only for Rookie of the Year but also for Most Valuable Player. [B]Frustrated by defensive tactics similar to those he had faced in college[/B], and by what he considered biased officiating, he threatened to leave the league and return to the Globetrotters in 1960. [B]But he did not follow through on his threat, and soon learned to outmaneuver his tormentors through sheer size, speed, and skill[/B].






[url]http://www.nba.com/home/history/lege...ain/index.html[/url]


Quote:
In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. [B]Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain[/B]. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever. [B]I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls[/B]."





[url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...940232,00.html[/url]


Quote:
He stood there, just to the right of the basket, a placid. 7-ft. 1 1/16-in, giant watching impassively as his teammates maneuvered the ball in backcourt. [B]The New York Knickerbockers tried to box him in; they clutched at his jersey, leaned against his chest, stepped on his toes[/B]. Then Wilt Chamberlain came alive. With the aplomb of a cop palming an apple, he reached out one massive hand and plucked the basketball out of the air. Spinning violently, he ripped clear of the elbowing surge, took a step toward the basket and jumped. For an instant, he seemed suspended in midair, his head on a level with the 10-ft.-high basket. Slowly, gently, the ball dribbled off his fingertips, through the net, and the San Francisco Warriors went on to a 142-134 victory. New York Coach Ed Donovan sadly shook his head. [B]"He's phenomenal." he sighed. "How does anyone stop Wilt Chamberlain?"[/B]




[url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...940232,00.html[/url]


Quote:
Most basketball stars have one great talent: Russell's is defense, Elgin Baylor's is shooting, Bob Cousy's is setting up plays and passing. [B]Chamberlain does almost everything, better than anyone else[/B]. He is the pros' fiercest rebounder, and his shooting repertory includes such inimitable specialties as the "Dipper Dunk" (in which he simply stretches up and lays the ball in the basket), the "Stuff Shot" (in which he jumps up and rams the ball through the net from above), [B]and the "Fadeaway Jump"

Continuing...

[url]http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-...mmy-4000-words[/url]


Quote:
At 7

[QUOTE]And haha, you dirty ass old fart, I never wrote that Barkley didn't outrebound him 'til the '00 season, I recalled it incorrectly when you wrote about the year Hakeem got outrebounded by 4 a game by Barkley. I did NEVER write that it was first in the '99 season that Barkley outrebounded Hakeem[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239811&page=4[/url]

[QUOTE] [B]Millwad[/B]: And troll, it's funny, [B]the 4 rebound per game higher average Barkley had was in the '00 season[/B]. It really takes a retard use that as a proof of Hakeem being a "bad" rebounder, he was 37 years old. Wilt at that age was retired.. Haha[/QUOTE]

Of course, we KNOW that Barkley outrebounded his TEAMMATE, Hakeem, by a 13.5 rpg to 9.2 rpg margin in the 96-97 season.


[QUOTE] [B]Millwad[/B] Dude, me "lying" was me not being aware of the situation a la Hakeem not guarding Kareem during in his rookie season.[/QUOTE]

Kareem poured a game of 40 points on Hakeem in Olajuwon's rookie season, 84-85, AND, then the 38 year old Kareem dumped TWO 40+ games on Hakeem in his SECOND season. It got so bad, that the Houston coach had to finally admit his failure, and put Sampson on the 38 year old Kareem in the playoffs (of course, Hakeem did help DOUBLE Kareem, as well.)

You fukkin' phagg0t, I didn't ask for what kind of defense Wilt faced, I only said that he didn't face the same amount of double teams as Shaq and Hakeem, he didn't. Your two pages of copy and paste is equal to crap.

[QUOTE]That Kareem got "crushed" by Wilt in the '72 playoffs while he outscored Wilt with the 23 points per game on better FG% and outassisting Wilt and also shooting FT's twice as good as Wilt, haha. Sure, he "CRUSHED" Kareem[/QUOTE]

I won't bother copy-and-pasting all of it...

just scroll down and read PHILA's POSTS on the subject...

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235497&page=2[/url]

Even TIME MAGAZINE declared that a Wilt DECISIVELY outplayed Kareem. Of course, you wouldn't know that, since you didn't WATCH that series!