Building a Franchise: Kyrie Irving or Russell Westbrook

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Kyrie is pretty f#cking good considering his age. :oldlol:

Pretty sure he has hit the gym... quite a bit.[/QUOTE]
I think he just meant Irving needs to get better.

[QUOTE=Meticode]I think he just meant Irving needs to get better.[/QUOTE]
And I meant that he's already pretty f#cking good. It seems kind of obvious to point out that a guy should continue to strive to get better. When someone says "he should hit the gym," it generally means that a guy isn't working hard enough. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Meticode]I think he just meant Irving needs to get better.[/QUOTE]
This.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]And I meant that he's already pretty f#cking good. It seems kind of obvious to point out that a guy should continue to strive to get better. When someone says "he should hit the gym," it generally means that a guy isn't working hard enough. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
I know, I know, but he hasn't shown any improvement or barely any since his rookie season.

[QUOTE=Meticode]I know, I know, but he hasn't shown any improve or barely any since his rookie season.[/QUOTE]
That's bullsh!t.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]And I meant that he's already pretty f#cking good.[/QUOTE]
He was alright last year.

Was barely a top 10 point guard.

[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]I will reserve judgement until the season starts, but probably Kyrie as he's simply a better decision maker (neither are great). I'll go with the chucker who's slightly better at it, is younger, and less injury prone[/QUOTE]

This post fails on so many levels.

[QUOTE=navy]He was alright last year.

Was barely a top 10 point guard.[/QUOTE]
Meh, I doubt there were many PGs in the NBA that received the kind of defensive attention as Kyrie did last year. And, that matters. When teams are gameplanning to stop you every night, it can wear you down over an 82-game season, especially as a 21-year-old who was playing over 70 games for the first time in his career.

Then, there's the fact that he was the youngest starting point guard in the entire NBA. No one is saying he is a finished product, but how many 21-year-olds are? Especially on a team that was in disarray for much of the year.

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Meh, I doubt there were many PGs in the NBA that received the kind of defensive attention as Kyrie did last year. And, that matters. When teams are gameplanning to stop you every night, it can wear you down over an 82-game season, especially as a 21-year-old who was playing over 70 games for the first time in his career.

Then, there's the fact that he was the youngest starting point guard in the entire NBA. No one is saying he is a finished product, but how many 21-year-olds are? Especially on a team that was in disarray for much of the year.[/QUOTE]
More defensive attention, but also more opportunities to put up stats. He played horrible defense and was by no means a leader on the court or in the lockerrom. But like I said, he's young. Maybe he makes a jump next year.

[QUOTE=navy]More defensive attention, but also more opportunities to put up stats. He played horrible defense and was by no means a leader on the court or in the lockerrom. But like I said, he's young. Maybe he makes a jump next year.[/QUOTE]
His defense was actually better last year than his first two years. He still has a ways to go, but his effort improved. It even showed up marginally on his advanced defensive metrics.

Also, his assist-to-turnover ratio improved dramatically.

Last, one of the biggest criticisms in his first two years was that he couldn't stay healthy. Well, he played over 70 games last year, which was a nice sign in its own right.

He didn't have a "great" season, but it also wasn't exactly bad and he improved in most of the areas people complained about for his first two years (durability, playmaking, defense).

The biggest "disappointment" was his scoring efficiency, which was ironically one of his greatest strengths in his first two years. I think he'll be fine. Just growing pains for a young, talented player. It also won't hurt to have guys on the floor with him who actually command some defensive attention.

i remember how hard everyone was riding Kyrie until this past season.

Now everyone thinks hes overrated :oldlol:

Playing alongside Lebron will up every cavs player's game

[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]His defense was actually better last year than his first two years. He still has a ways to go, but his effort improved. It even showed up marginally on his advanced defensive metrics.

Also, his assist-to-turnover ratio improved dramatically.

Last, one of the biggest criticisms in his first two years was that he couldn't stay healthy. Well, he played over 70 games last year, which was a nice sign in its own right.

He didn't have a "great" season, but it also wasn't exactly bad and he improved in most of the areas people complained about for his first two years (durability, playmaking, defense).

The biggest "disappointment" was his scoring efficiency, which was ironically one of his greatest strengths in his first two years. I think he'll be fine. Just growing pains for a young, talented player. It also won't hurt to have guys on the floor with him who actually command some defensive attention.[/QUOTE]

I saw a matador out there. But not gonna pretend like I caught a lot of Cavs games. :oldlol:

Meh. He's an alright passer. We'll see what happens when he plays with elite shooters and finishers next year.

Im not worried much about the injuries. I remember a news story in 2013 where he pretty much stated he was faking and he Cavs were making him sit out. Or something like that.

He will be the third best scorer next year. He probably wont average 20.... he might flourish or he might pout and regress.

Kyrie seems like a different version of Curry/Lilard. Westbrook is in a tier of his own with Paul, all these other PGs still got a lot to work on. All of them can score but it's about what else they offer when their shot isn't falling, that separates the elite from the rest.

I don't get this. To me I would take Westbrook quickly without a second thought. He's the superior player.

You'd have to build a better total system, but I'd be willing to go through some shit to have the better talent. I think the figuring out the role part would be worth it to have his talent.

[QUOTE=Timmy D for MVP]I don't get this. [/QUOTE]
The thread was made when it was still debatable.