Checkmate Atheists!

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]The problem with saying that is that an even less intelligent mortal men wrote the old testament. That's why it's poorly written and [B]lacks an iota of logic[/B] .[/QUOTE]
That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, translated from ancient Aramaic. Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

[IMG]http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Nick Young]That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, translated from ancient Aramaic. Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

[IMG]http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

They are also judging the OT by today's standards. I have seen atheists do this on several sites.

And, they take everything in the OT literally wooden, and seem to think that the law (beside the 10 Commandments) is in affect today (Christ fulfilled those laws).

There is this one atheist, Marshall Brain (of Why Won't God Heal Amputees fame) that said that God wants to kill people who work on Sunday :roll: .

[QUOTE=Nick Young]That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, [B]translated from ancient Aramaic.[/B] Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

[IMG]http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
The Old Testament was not written in Aramaic. And there are no English translations from Aramaic. All English translations of the bible are translated from the original greek for the New Testament and the Septuagint (Greek translation of the original Hebrew) for the Old Testament or from the original Latin translations of the same sources.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, translated from ancient Aramaic. Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

[IMG]http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Except that God did not write the old testament.
The old testament is a wretched piece of work that my 17 year old nephew could have done a better job writing.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]The Old Testament was not written in Aramaic. And there are no English translations from Aramaic. All English translations of the bible are translated from the original greek for the New Testament and the Septuagint (Greek translation of the original Hebrew) for the Old Testament or from the original Latin translations of the same sources.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the correction breh but yalls know what I meant.


Feeny
The OT is the most influential work of literature in western civilization. The wisdom inside it has stood the test of time and the stories and characters have inspired the greatest works of art ever made.

Hold this L

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]Except that God did not write the old testament.
The old testament is a wretched piece of work that my 17 year old nephew could have done a better job writing.[/QUOTE]
No, it's one of the finest compendiums of literature and poetry ever written. Next you'll be telling us that the Odyssey and Dante's Divine Comedy were hack jobs. But hey, don't take my word for it: this is the consensus opinion of the world's most distinguished authors:

[QUOTE]The editors of the Norwegian Book Clubs, with the Norwegian Nobel Institute, polled a panel of 100 authors from 54 countries on what they considered the “best and most central works in world literature.” Among the authors polled were Milan Kundera, Doris Lessing, Seamus Heaney, Salman Rushdie, Wole Soyinka, John Irving, Nadine Gordimer, and Carlos Fuentes.

--Anon, The Book of Job

[url]http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0934958.html[/url][/QUOTE]

But what do they know, amirite?

And the King James Bible is only the foundation of the English language that you try to speak, and surely full of phrases and sayings you often repeat without even knowing their origin. Even though you have nothing but disdain for the Bible, the truth is that your consciousness has been to some extent moulded by it:

[url]http://unlockingthebible.org/common-english-sayings-bible/[/url]

That makes you a living, walking, and breathing contradiction.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]The problem with saying that is that an even less intelligent mortal men wrote the old testament. That's why it's poorly written and lacks an iota of logic .[/QUOTE]
You do know that the language of the King James Bible was composed by a committee of the finest scholars in the country? In what world are people like this unintelligent?:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Savile_(Bible_translator[/url])

[QUOTE]He was educated at Brasenose College, Oxford, where he matriculated in 1561. He became a fellow of Merton in 1565.[4] He established a reputation as a Greek scholar and mathematician by voluntary lectures on the Almagest, and in 1575 became junior proctor. In 1578 he travelled on the continent of Europe, where he collected manuscripts and is said to have been employed by Queen Elizabeth as her resident in the Low Countries. On his return he was named greek tutor to the Queen.[/QUOTE]

Attended Oxford at the age of 12, became a fellow of one of the most important Oxford colleges at 16, elite scholar of Greek and Mathematics, tutor to the Queen at 30.

[QUOTE]n 1585 he was established as Warden of Merton by a vigorous exercise of the interest of Burghley and Secretary Walsingham. He proved a successful and autocratic head of house, generally unpopular with fellows and undergraduates, but under him the college flourished. His translation of four books of the Histories of Tacitus, with the learned Commentary on Roman Warfare (1591), enhanced his reputation.[6]

On 30 September 1604 Savile was knighted, and in that year he was named one of the body of scholars appointed to prepare the authorized version of the Bible. He was entrusted with parts of the gospels, the Acts of the Apostles and the Book of Revelation.

In 1619 he founded and endowed a chair in astronomy and a chair in geometry at Oxford, both bearing his name.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, what an intellectual bum.

But i'm sure you, Mr. Feeny, you're so much more intelligent than these great pioneers.

:hammerhead:

[QUOTE=fiddy]Seek help before its too late :roll:[/QUOTE]

Firstly, it is the HEIGHT of intellectual arrogance to think that a kid who hasn't hit 30 knows the truth of man's existence whereas all the faithful people of the past haven't. Thinking religion came as a bandage to solve man's fear of death is [B]switching out the order[/B] and is essentially the individual atheist's worldview. Who the hell am I to think the hundreds and millions of minds who have not been bombarded by, to quote Dresta, "the western Dogmas," that existed prior and concurrent were wrong about Adam and Eve, the Kingdom of Heaven; whereas I, having had only access to a slightly stronger knowledge of the details of science and technology in the 21st century (coupled with a weaker memory, less good deeds, and arguably duller intellect, less sound judgment and lower consciousness) would know the truth and they did not.

By the way, I'm not the one calling religious people "cowards and idiots" and calling for the nuking of the Middle East. Nor do I hate Atheists or think them bad people. Nor am I spending hundreds on bodybuilding supplements. Nor doing whatever you're doing that I'm not going to disclose in respects to your human dignity.

Like it or not, your thoughts are extremely dark and destructive. The same applies to a sizable portion of ISH. Now we both know you're not inherently evil. You've shown signs of compassion for fallen Russian men, and love for animals and a sense of equality etc. There's got to be some dark force compelling you to think the way you do.

Check out someone like mlh1981. Nothing but positivity, hope, love. And he's going through some DIFFICULT times. There's got to be a reason for that.

Here's what man is to guard himself against:

Satan
[B]
Deceives
-
-
Preys on the isolated and weak

Promotes arrogance

Promotes discord and mischief

Makes his chief aim misguidance and rebellion from Allah

Makes it sound alright to engage in things

Encourages humans to blame others for their faults instead of themselves

Places excessive guilt (despair and hopelessness) upon people who want to reform
keeps people thinking they are evil and worthless

Encourages people to be forgetful

Encourages people to mock one another

Oppression

Greed

Anger

Jealousy

Vengeance

Has man clinging with infatuation onto things that will eventually pass

Keeps people away from expressing gratitude or remorse towards Allah

Tempts people into indulging in pleasures ultimately harmful

Creates Separation between brothers
[/B]
If at any point of your day, you experience so much as a single thought from the aforementioned tricks (and we all do), then you know the Devil has somewhat of an effect on you.

Conversely, forgiveness, love, patience, sincerity, unity, faith, gratitude, service, purity, love,preferring others to one self are the Angelic Characteristics.

Oh, and the [U][B]greatest trick the Devil pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.[/B][/U]

But the fact that he was created is [B][U]Good.[/U][/B] He plays a crucial role into strengthening men spiritually. How can someone's muscles grow bigger without resistance training? How can someone refine spiritually without Satan's whisperings?

[QUOTE]Ephesians 6:11
Put on the [B]full armor of Allah[/B], so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who [B]deceives the whole world[/B]; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]Matthew 13:19
"When anyone hears the w[B]ord of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart.[/B] This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.
[/QUOTE]

How much have you understood from the Holy Books, fiddy? I'm barely scratching a fraction of a fraction of a percent of it, yet it's changed me so, so much.


[QUOTE]
Daniel 8:25
Verse Concepts
"And through his shrewdness He will cause d[B]eceit to succeed by his influence[/B]; And he will magnify himself in his heart, And [B]he will destroy many while they are at ease.[/B] He will even oppose the Prince of princes, But he will be broken without human agency.

2 Timothy 3:13
Verse Concepts
But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.[/QUOTE]

It's the rich and comfortable who are in largest danger of spiritual destruction.


[QUOTE]2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly i[B]ntroduce destructive heresies[/B], even denying the Master who bought them, [B]bringing swift destruction upon themselves.[/B] Many will follow their [B]sensuality,[/B] and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their [B]greed they will exploit you with false words[/B]; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.[/QUOTE]

Scantily clad ladies, glorification of alcohol, Huxley's Brave New World, atheistic thought like Communism, Nihilism, Godless ethical philosophies like Rand's ethical egoism, delicious food, broken promises, Darwinistic man vs man, insincere flattery etc.

[QUOTE=Dresta]You do know that the language of the King James Bible was composed by a committee of the finest scholars in the country? In what world are people like this unintelligent?:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Savile_(Bible_translator[/url])



Attended Oxford at the age of 12, became a fellow of one of the most important Oxford colleges at 16, elite scholar of Greek and Mathematics, tutor to the Queen at 30.



Indeed, what an intellectual bum.

But i'm sure you, Mr. Feeny, you're so much more intelligent than these great pioneers.

:hammerhead:[/QUOTE]

You sound REALLY wound up:oldlol:
I'll retain my own opinion. I've read it front to back and I'll repeat that I think it's awful. If you don't, you're welcome to have the majority view. But it's only that - a viewpoint.

I think it's one of the biggest piles of gibberish I've ever read but that's only me.

Jefferson Money is the 3ball of radical Islam, fascinating.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]You sound REALLY wound up:oldlol:
I'll retain my own opinion. I've read it front to back and I'll repeat that I think it's awful. If you don't, you're welcome to have the majority view. But it's only that - a viewpoint.

I think it's one of the biggest piles of gibberish I've ever read but that's only me.[/QUOTE]
Wound up? Is that what you call someone pointing out your proud and ignorant stupidity? You've also failed to even make any refutation of what I wrote, other than hysterically claiming "it's my opinion dude." You can think what you want, but you couldn't be more wrong.

And it's not "just a viewpoint"--its influence and importance is factual and undeniable. Stop pretending to have read it, because you haven't, and the idea of you approaching it with anything like an open mind is downright laughable.

I'm sure you worked your way through 800,000 words of "gibberish". It's funny how you can write so little and yet still so obviously contradict and expose yourself: embarrassing.

[QUOTE]It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.
[/QUOTE]
You are the fool Mr. Feeny. You don't know anything about the Bible, have not read or studied it, and yet you come in here, mocking it, hoping to get a reaction (hence why you replied to my perfectly rational and reasonable post by joyously claiming I was "wound up"), and hoping to annoy people. That makes you a first-class fool and an incompetent sadist; rethink your life.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]
The OT is the most influential work of literature in western civilization. The wisdom inside it has stood the test of time and the stories and characters have inspired the greatest works of art ever made.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if I would go that far. It's only relatively recent that people would own their own bibles. For the majority of the history of Christian Europe, certainly in Western Europe, the only bibles were owned by churches and they were almost all in Latin. People's only experience with the bible until the rise of the printing press and cheap paper was the church experience which of course had a much greater focus on Jesus than the OT. I'd say the story of Jesus very obviously had much greater influence in Europe (and by extension European colonies) than the Old Testament.

[QUOTE]Ok, first off... :roll:

I started reading this post and thought 'no he's not bringing up AOE2'.

But to answer your question...

God didn't compel me not to kill the Afghans. I didn't kill them because I didn't want to kill them. There was no higher being telling me not to. There simply was no benefit to be gained. If there was? Maybe that changes things. [/QUOTE]

That's your explanation?
First question is this, "Who am I?"
I understand that I am a creation of God. Just like every other living and non-living organism. Thus, just as a bumblebee delivers nectar and pollinates flowers and just as trees give oxygen, I too have certain responsibilities to the One who made me.

Let's break down the event.
You, as US Soldier, did not shoot at other human beings.
What stopped you from doing such?
Through your mind, it was a "lack of desire" to do so. I must ask, what stops you from killing others? What really stops you?

Through these eyes, it seems clear your soul has an innate sense of compassion for other human beings, which was wired within your very nature. The Source of the wiring, the one who commanded the Angels to breathe the soul during your infancy, does not come from "I".' "I" is merely a temporary personal narrative, a tool used by the living human being to measure things.. I do not believe that you would have killed those Afghani people had there been some benefit. God only knows.


[QUOTE]I don't believe in God (the Christian version of it anyway) because:

A) Being forced to worship him or burn in an entire pit of fire doesn't seem like much of a[B] choic[/B]e...
B) I've seen too much bad things to think there's a 'plan'. It's not a plan, it's luck. I've had EOD clear IED's out from where I had been sleeping the night before. Why didn't the IED go off while I was walking around on top of it? Was it God? Or was there some wiring flaw that caused it to malfunction?[/QUOTE]

A) Worship means to "orbit", serve, respect, revere, obey, a Higher Power. Everyone worships something, one way or another. Why not Worship the One who created you? A lot of people these days worship the "I"? Some build their lives on what feels good. Some build their lives on whatever their culture says. Point being, there's an optimal path you can take in your life that would grant you eternal peace, happiness, and fulfillment. You, me, your parents, and nobody knows what that path is. There is only One who knows and One who can guide. There are conditions to earn that guidance, however.


Through

B) "Bad" things. What denotes something as being bad or good? Without a clear understanding of the Afterlife, seeing a person dead sparks up horrific tragic feelings. What if the reality was that his early death was a huge blessing as it prevented worse things from happening in his permanent record, thus allowing for an easier, smoother afterlife.
What if the Eod's clearing up the IED's were Signs that He was always watching over you? Perhaps the flawed wiring was a Sign that their was something intrinsically wrong with your current mindset. God knows best.


[QUOTE]
Go watch the documentaries Restrepo or Korengal... 30 guys go on patrol, and the 8th one in line steps on a mine. God or just unlucky? 200 trucks go out in a convoy, the very last truck in the convoy is hit (wasn't a command det, it was a pressure plate)... Is that God? Or is the last truck just really ****ing unlucky to roll over it at the right place at the wrong time?[/QUOTE]

Luck is terminology for some strange cause/force of chaos, yeah?

Do you know how ordered the Universe is? Every single molecule on Earth is composed of the same molecules spinning in the same direction. The Sun and Moon follow a precise orbit.

Likewise, the people who were mean to pass were passed that very moment. The truck that was blown up was a Sign to the 199 at how completely fragile and reliant they are on His protection and ought to pave way to Remember Him and be Grateful to Him.

If anything the fact that the particular lagging individual died (who treaded that path) and not the several ones prior reaffirms that God is in complete control of all happenings.


[QUOTE]Tornadoes rip apart whole towns and some people die, some live.

Planes crash and half the people live and half of them die.

That'[B]s just called luck. I was lucky I didn't get shot because I was in the right places at the right time. Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place, but I wasn't. God didn't save me from getting tagged hopping out of my truck... the fact my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck, causing me to get out on that side, did. [/B]

It's not God. It's me being lucky up until the point where I'm not so lucky.[/QUOTE]

Again, He was protecting you.
The events that unfolded were the following:

"Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place."
But you weren't in their place.
You continued to live.
This ain't probability. You were in a position where you weren't killed over, and over, and over again; and it was certainly not by chance. God loves you. God loves all His creations more than a mother loves her infant.

"The fact that my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck."
And what exactly was the force that compelled your pack to be strapped on the other side.
You don't usually have your pack strapped to the other side; no?
You just "accidentally" did in that situation.


Luck is nothing but a sham, dude. Every event that unfolded in your life happened for a specific reason and things will start to make sense as the heart grows in faith and illumination; the effects of consistent worship to Him. The fact that someone cares enough about you to sacrifice his night should set off some alarms.

You got to have an open mind and good faith, man and start seeing things as Signs from Him. Then the pathway to Peace and Happiness become,es clear.

Forgive my rather forceful tone, but being caught up in the traps of marriage, recreation, and things that distract you from Him would depress your spirits and I, in good faith, can not allow that. And thank you again, for not killing the Afghani people.

Assalamu Alaikum.

Atheists getting BTFO in this thread and in the after life.

[QUOTE=~primetime~]No there is a difference between the two.

A true atheist literally believes there is no creator(s)[/QUOTE]

Classic No-True-Scotsman fallacy.

There are "hard" and "soft" qualifiers for atheists and they still vary. The "A" in "atheist" means lack of. Lack of belief isn't the same thing as disbelief. The fact that such nuance escapes you is the hallmark of typical religionists.

In any case, the name of the thread title already told me that the OP is yet another typical inbred know-nothing bible beater who is insecure about the fact that atheists don't have to buy into his religion's fairy tales and generally lead much more successful lives.