Anyone believe Covid is very serious but at same time the vaccine ain't doing shit?

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433056][B]The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals[/B].[/QUOTE]

Ah, see guys, the "real problem" is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals... or so he claims.

Let's see if tontoz can even back up his claim with basic data.

Let's break down what tontoz is claiming here:
After 18 months of preparation
$13.3 trillion in allocated spending in the name of Covid-19
Navy ships sailed out in April 2020 without seeing any patients
Field hospitals all torn down in April & May 2020
Hospitals emptier in 2020 than 2019 (without a vaccine)
70-80% of the high risk group now fully vaccinated
The unvaxxed have some level of immunity
States "hardest hit" have more hospital beds available than they had in March 2020 before Covid-19

His conclusion? The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

Well let's see if he has the data to back up his claim. We'll start with the basics:

Out of all the people in the hospitals, how many are vaccinated? How many are unvaccinated?

(No, I'm not talking about people who had a positive PCR test for Covid-19 while in the hospital, I'm asking out of all the people in the hospitals, how many are vaccinated? How many are unvaccinated?)

What is the absolute risk reduction for being hospitalized within 6 months of becoming fully vaccinated?

Next, there are 3,006 counties and 50 states in the US. How many counties & states had overwhelmed hospitals due to Covid-19 in 2020? 2021? Today? Let's take a look at the data.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433343]It was just a comparison it's not trillions but we are talking billions in sales. It's significantly higher than 1.9 billion. Here are some articles that highlight this.

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/17/rich-countries-hoarding-vaccines-us-eu-africa[/url]

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/2017272/rich-countries-are-buying-up-all-the-covid-19-vaccines/amp/[/url]

Here's another article highlighting how the greed of these wealthy countries will not only cost lives but cost the everyday person money. Meanwhile big pharma get filthy rich. [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/failure-vaccinate-globally-could-cost-2000-person-year-rich-nations[/url][/QUOTE]



My 1.9 billion number is meant to be profit, not revenue, on 380 million doses. There are a lot of costs for the R&D, production, storage and distribution of the vaccines. If they are selling for $20 or less i seriously doubt their profit margin is 40% or more.

If we are going to give away cheaper doses it has to be the governments call. The drug companies aren't going to do it voluntarily. They certainly aren't going to give away their patents to other countries.

Joe Rogan did a good podcast back in July where he brought in Abby Martin who completely trashed Israel for their treatment of Palestinians. Ugly stuff going on there. There were US citizens traveling over there to squat in Palestinian homes in occupied territories, basically stealing their homes right in front of them and there was nothing the Palestinians could do about it.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433128]LOL i literally went a year without posting about the topic at all.

In case you haven't been paying attention there has been a clear divide in how people view Covid based on politics.[B] Typically Republican governors more likely to be anti vax and anti prevention.[/B] In Florida the governor there is actually selling anti-Fauci tee shirts to fund his re-election campaign. He's banned masks in schools. Texas has already banned vaccine passports. And so on.

Dems have typically been more pro mask pro vaccine.

Whether you like it or not people's responses have been very political.[/QUOTE]

Lmao. There were masks and lockdowns in almost every "red" state in the country, including the two you just listed. Every governor promoted the shit outta the Trump vaccine and Operation Warp Speed. Hell, they still do! Abbott, the guy you claim "banned vaccine passports," was just telling everyone how wonderful the Trump vaccine is a week or so ago.

Literally zero governors swore in their Public Health Officials (which ALL promoted social distancing & wearing masks) for cross examination. The two you listed in particular, Florida and Texas both had lockdowns and mask mandates in most cities within the state in 2020. Did you read the Texas and FL bills regarding "vaccine passports?" They didn't ban vaccine passports bro. Companies all over the state require vaccines, including the Trump vaccine. Read the actual bill, not CNN headlines.

Both governors supported Trump's National State of Emergency, which provided the trillions of dollars to the states to go on with the charade. Both governors supported Trump's social distancing guidelines, Trump's mask urgency, Trump's travel bans, etc... and it appears you also support all of Trump's policies, including Trump's very own team members, such as Fauci.

At no point did any of those governors stand up in 2020 and tell people to stop social distancing, stop wearing masks, stop travel bans, and don't get the Trump vaccine. If they did, show it. Trump didn't do it either.

Anyways, let's see you back up your bold claims you keep making about masks, lockdowns, hospitals, and the Trump vaccine.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14433113]Btw Ill just lastly point out that altho it’s not scientific, there’s a respected tradition of proverbial wisdom in politics that says:

“If rrr3 is on your side... youre probably wrong.”


Just something to keep in mind.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

tontoz comes off as a guy who is well versed in mainstream narratives. probably has read dozens of articles from various corporate media outlets all pushing the same Official Narrative, thinking he's 'well rounded' on the topic.

"I even read some of the (controlled) opposition," he says unironically, "they think the masks are the sign of the devil and the (Trump) vaccine has microchips! LOL now I know I'm right!"

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433363]My 1.9 billion number is meant to be profit, not revenue, on 380 million doses. There are a lot of costs for the R&D, production, storage and distribution of the vaccines. If they are selling for $20 or less i seriously doubt their profit margin is 40% or more.

If we are going to give away cheaper doses it has to be the governments call. The drug companies aren't going to do it voluntarily. They certainly aren't going to give away their patents to other countries.

Joe Rogan did a good podcast back in July where he brought in Abby Martin who completely trashed Israel for their treatment of Palestinians. Ugly stuff going on there. There were US citizens traveling over there to squat in Palestinian homes in occupied territories, basically stealing their homes right in front of them and there was nothing the Palestinians could do about it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more[/url] I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.

I see Cleverness popping in from time to time. If anyone is wondering why i don't respond to him i put him on the ignore list awhile back. He is literally the only person i ever put on ignore that i never even argued with. :oldlol:

The reasons should be obvious.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433375]Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more[/url] I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.[/QUOTE]

@ Bronbron

[url]https://covidmoneytracker.org/[/url]

Wait for it to load. Doing a simple search using the word "vaccine" shows at least $80 billion is allocated for Covid vaccinations.

Important to note that all of this spending is thanks to [B]Donald Trump's National declaration of Emergency[/B]. None of this is possible without it. The states simply don't have the funds to print $13.3 trillion for a War on Covid-19. This is Trump's War - Biden is just continuing where Trump left off.

If Trump didn't want any of this, he would have ended the emergency in March or April 2020 when the field hospitals were being torn down and Navy ships sailed out due to the rate of hospitalization being a tiny fraction of predicted (~2% vs 20-50%).

He could have ended his Nat'l Emergency (cuts off the $$$), said "stop social distancing, stop wearing masks, stop travel bans," swear-in and cross examine his entire team of quacks and fire them, etc. Republicans would be on board and the governors would (as they always had) followed Trump's lead, not only politically, but the states simply don't have trillions of dollars to support any sort of lockdowns to continue on and on like they did. I can go on but I think you get the point. I hope the link helps you.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433379]I see Cleverness popping in from time to time. If anyone is wondering why i don't respond to him i put him on the ignore list awhile back. He is literally the only person i ever put on ignore that i never even argued with. :oldlol:

The reasons should be obvious.[/QUOTE]

I asked you basic followup questions regarding your bold claims.

You haven't been able to answer them.

I'm guessing the cognitive dissonance started to get too heavy and the only way to block it out was to ignore any questioning to your absurd assertions.

You are literally insane.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23;14433375]Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is [url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more[/url] I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but this doesn't pass the sniff test. The US govt has a lot of leverage when negotiating prices with the drug companies due to their buying power.

Even if that $1.20 production cost number was true, which i doubt, production is only one of the costs of bringing a vaccine to market. R&D, testing, storage, distribution... probably forgetting some things. Over time the cost will come down but that is not a believable number.

Do you really think our govt is so weak that they are willing to give the drug companies roughly an 85% profit margin in an emergency situation, especially when there has been so much talk about cutting drug prices in recent years?

I don't buy it.

[QUOTE=SATAN;14433386]You are literally insane.[/QUOTE]

The ignore list is your friend. It was probably two months ago that i put him on ignore. I don't think i ever even had a conversation with him about this or anything else and i still couldn't take it. :lol

[QUOTE=tontoz;14433392]The ignore list is your friend. It was probably two months ago that i put him on ignore. I don't think i ever even had a conversation with him about this or anything else and i still couldn't take it. :lol[/QUOTE]

Yeah. At least Chewy and Welfarefan are somewhat funny. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14433372]:roll:

tontoz comes off as a guy who is well versed in mainstream narratives. probably has read dozens of articles from various corporate media outlets all pushing the same Official Narrative, thinking he's 'well rounded' on the topic.

"I even read some of the (controlled) opposition," he says unironically, "they think the masks are the sign of the devil and the (Trump) vaccine has microchips! LOL now I know I'm right!"[/QUOTE]

I don't know me and tontoz just had a long debate/discussion about it and we don't agree but he was cool for the most part. I don't think he's much different from us. He has his media outlets and studies he likes that supports his views and we have ours. Sure they're the majority and they're shaming and name calling and telling untruths but let's be honest so are the minority that we align more with. I don't blame people like tontoz for feeling as strongly as they do because the media has been brainwashing and fear mongering people since day 1. Why wouldn't people believe the cdc, government and media who they believe is trustworthy and honest. It's natural for people to want to believe their government, healthcare system and media is good by nature and that they are honest and have the best intentions for the everyday citizens well being. This is why they're so easily mislead. It comes from qn honest place. Calling them brainwashed tools is no more productive than them calling us antivaxed conspiracy nuts. I think we both are operating from pure good intentions It's just that our belief that our side is right lets us get emotional qnd then frustrated and then unsympathetic to where the other side is coming from. Again i blame the media, cdc and government for this. They've intentionally created a divide to try to scare and shame people into getting the vaccine and it's worked.

[QUOTE=BurningHammer;14433397]Yeah. At least Chewy and Welfarefan are somewhat funny. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I'm here to discuss the costs and benefits of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, forced travel bans, and supposed "overwhelmed" hospitals, all of which you and tontoz support.

Unfortunately you and tontoz have an extremely difficult time backing up your claims.

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14417959&viewfull=1#post14417959[/url]

You're here to argue. Just admit it. :lol