2022 off season Post Gobert. A new era begins

[URL]https://www.slcdunk.com/2022/7/12/23206054/utah-jazz-are-willing-to-listen-to-trade-offers-for-donovan-mitchell-2022-free-agency-trade-rumor[/URL]

[QUOTE]Mitchell should grab a huge treasure trove of assets. Remember, he has three years left on his deal and is just now entering his prime.

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actually appeared to leave his prime after the all-star break. What was that all about?

[QUOTE]Things are about to get nuts in Utah, and over the next few weeks, and it’s looking like it might officially be tanking season for the Jazz. Here’s to a season, or two, of #tanknote!

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a season or two is being optimistic. If not for Rudy they still might be tanking from 2014

[QUOTE]I'm still bitter about Burks. He is still producing, and the guys Q played with a clear double standard created a culture where players are not held accountable. A lot of us pointed it out years ago, and it eventually caught up to Q. Maybe if Q was as strict with everyone like he was with Burks, the Jazz would have had a more hard nose culture. [/QUOTE]

yep. Take Burks over Clarkson any day!

[QUOTE]And the Conley deal turned out to be a clunker and the downfall of the franchise, as many worried it might be at the time it was made.[/QUOTE]

Hardly. Had their best team since Stockton and Malone. Fell short because of COTY, Clarkson, Mitchell...

[QUOTE]All that to be a good #2 player, both were/are fringe all-stars.

Glad the Jazz can get assets to build with.[/QUOTE]

Gobert has been one of the best players in game for years based on many metrics. You are right about Mitchell

[QUOTE]on a positive note folks , the new FO is no longer chasing old vets that are past their prime

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Beverley

[QUOTE]I get why a complete rebuild is intriguing and exciting. There's just a lot of hope and you don't have any expectations in the immediate future of winning so there's no stress watching games. But the Jazz have been very lucky for the past 40 years to not have any lengthy rebuild. It's fine for a couple years, but when you go into complete rebuild mode there's a real chance that you could be there for a long time. [/QUOTE]

someone gets it. You need stars. They are hard to come by. Jazz have only had two better than Gobert. Good luck replacing him!

[QUOTE]A full rebuild will probably be 5-8+ years before UTA is a good playoff team. [/QUOTE]

Utah wins the trade! :lol

[QUOTE]I think the prior FO did well young players, but Corbin did not do anything with developing (even playing) young players and heavily relying on vetzz. Milsap and Al should have been traded when Jazz trade DWill. And they both got big contracts the year after they walked from the Jazz, so Jazz could have traded them 2 years before with even more value. [/QUOTE]

Should have built around Millsap once Deron was traded. Al never made any sense. Could have had Millsap and Gobert which would have been better than Hayward or Mitchell. You keep those guys. You build around them

[QUOTE]Should have been more picks, and then Trey Burke (at #9) was what seemed like a save pick, but dude had already hit his ceiling. CJ McCollum went 10 and Giannis 14. [/QUOTE]

CJ was my guy. Imagine Rudy, Millsap, Hayward and McCollum :cry:

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2022/7/12/23191929/rudy-gobert-leaves-utah-as-a-utah-jazz-legend[/url]

[QUOTE]The [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com"]Utah Jazz[/URL] traded Rudy Gobert to the [URL="https://www.canishoopus.com"]Minnesota Timberwolves[/URL]. It still doesn't feel real, and it's gotten me feeling like slapping a cup off the scorer's table, but it is true. Gobert likely won't wear a Utah Jazz uniform again.

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I could see him coming back on his next deal after Danny has built a team. Come back and anchor the 2nd unit

[QUOTE]Despite starting his sophomore season as the third big man in the pecking order, Gobert worked his way into the starting lineup. His defensive dominance was shining, and it became clear that he needed to be this team's anchor. Gobert became a fan favorite, earning nicknames like 'The Stifle Tower,' 'Gobzilla,' and 'The French Rejection.' After his biggest highlight plays, he'd salute the crowd.

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I think he might have been 4th big to start the year? I did think he'd earned it. He had came a long ways that off season. More than anyone could have imagined! Never did salute again :cry:

[QUOTE]Gobert was making his mark on the Utah Jazz history books. He climbed up the statistical leaderboards, cementing himself as an all-time great for this franchise.

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NBA record books
[QUOTE]
[INDENT] Rudy Gobert ranks among Utah Jazz players:

1st DPOY
1st All-Defense
1st FG%, TS%, eFG%
1st WS/48
2nd Rebounds
2nd Reb/game
2nd Blk/game
3rd All-NBA
3rd Blocks
3rd Win Shares
T4th All-Star
5th Free Throws
5th Box +/-
7th Minutes
9th Wins
10th Field Goals
10th Points
10th Games
— Calvin Chappell (@CHALVIN2018) [URL="https://twitter.com/CHALVIN2018/status/1543666940576677890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]July 3, 2022[/URL] [/INDENT][/QUOTE]

his assault on the NBA record books more impressive

[QUOTE]In international play, Gobert became the face of the French national team and led them to their third-ever Olympic medal, the first in 20 years. He also won two FIBA Word Cup bronze medals and one Eurobasket bronze medal.

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might back up Embiid now!

[QUOTE]All those awards and the trade package mean nothing, because he didn't DO anything. He actually played worse in the playoffs. His team--of which he is supposedly the best player--lost in the first round. Two years ago to a team without their best player, and last year to a team that was missing their best player for three games.



I know there are players that were great but didn't win a ring, like Barkley, or Nash, or Stockton and Malone, for instance, but they had great performances IN the playoffs. They did their part. But Gobet gets worse in the playoffs. There are no great performances. Maybe we'll see some with the Wolves but I don't see how he can be a ledgend for the Jazz. If I was writing the headline I'd say, despite all the accolades and statistical achievements, Gobert was, at best, a no show when it mattered most.[/QUOTE]

It means everything. He's carried a franchise for over 7 years. Only 1 team wins it all. Doesn't mean everything else means nothing. He's on his best team now by far. Let's see how he does in the playoffs with a better team and coach. Karl sucked in the playoffs when it meant the most. Gobert can't guard 5 players at once or score without the ball. These are true

[QUOTE]We traded a future 1st ballot HOFer in his prime with four years left on his contract. . . for draft picks.



We blew it.


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time will tell. Chances are they don't get anyone better than him though

[QUOTE]dantley maybe most talented jazz scorer ever

rickey green (aka fastest of them all)

stockton for his toughness (he likely would have crusted malone and eaton at same time wrasslin)

bailey just all around good guy, who mite be a prototype big now

hornacek the guy who almost made jerry sloan respect 3 pt shot
millsap the drive to make a very modest skillset work and strive to get better each year

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no maybe on Dantley. He taught Karl a lot too. I like Thurl a lot less now that he's an announcer!

[QUOTE]honorable mention to ron boone~~another good guy


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and an awful commentator

[QUOTE]If we had Gobert during Stockon and Malone instead of Ostertag, what would have happened? This is before the game changed to centers shooting 3s.


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Would have rather had him than Eaton. They might have won it all in '88

[QUOTE]interesting thought. many of stocktons passes were really quick and throw very hard. i remember getting irritated with eaton and tag for fumbling away so many. not sure gobert has better hands.


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Stockton didn't throw lobs is where I wonder how things would have evolved

[QUOTE]I'd put Rudy in my top 4 favorite Jazz players to watch. I'm really going to miss him. I really hope Minny wins it all (if the Jazz don't soon, which we most likely won't).


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would be great. Comes down to ANT's development and how much longer Gobert can play at an elite level

[QUOTE]If the Wolves make one NBA finals [the Wolves have never been] I won't care if we go 15 years without a playoff appearance! You can have all those picks. One finals run and we won the trade! I don't even need a title. I just want to soak up a finals run!!

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They win if the Jazz don't end up with someone better than Gobert. Chances of that have to be incredibly low

[QUOTE]Lowry was there and I know they had a few other longer-term players (Lowry actually played 6 years before joining TOR), but they still only won because of Kawhi (and all of GSW getting injured).

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Kawai was the difference sure but they had a very good team around him

[QUOTE]you are right, and that was actually the last time kawhi was reasonably healthy for any length of time. special player but injury bug has him. makes me sad because i think there was a 3-4 yrs span where, when healthy, kawhi was best 2 way player in league.[/QUOTE]

he was when last healthy. Giannis may have passed him. We'll see

[QUOTE]Nice recap Calvin. Thinking he might get the longest, loudest ovation of an ex Jazzman on his first game back? I don't remember Karl's.


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If they had a clue they'd unveil his statue or at least which side of the arena they will place it

[QUOTE]pretty sure there was no animosity when he left and maybe even lhm's blessing

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pretty much the same here as Rudy is now on a lot better team except he didn't want to go

[QUOTE]I remember after one of the games, Kobe said, "We should be able to play with these guys. . . "[/QUOTE]

you could have if you'd passed the ball to your best player

[QUOTE]Since Stockton retired anyway, most didn't blame Karl for leaving. It's similar to how Mitchell feels right now. What's the point without Gobert? [/QUOTE]

to prove the hype

[QUOTE]The fact that Sloan dragged a team led by a 22-year old AK47 to a winning record (42-40) is remarkable. [B]That should have been Sloan's 5th COTY award.[/B] Harpring was the 2nd best player, and he only played 31 games that season. [/QUOTE]

his best coaching job. Should have been fired after his first 1st to 3rd in the division with two of the greats

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/13/redoing-2010s-drafts-utah-jazz/[/url]

[QUOTE]As we enter the mid-2020s, we can now look back on the 2010s as a decade and confidently say where the [URL="https://thejnotes.com/"]Utah Jazz[/URL] went wrong and where they went right. Since 2010, the Utah Jazz have made some really good and really bad draft choices, so with hindsight being 20/20 it only makes sense to rewind a bit and consider what the franchise could and should have done with their draft picks.

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since the 70's

[QUOTE]This was a horrible draft for the Jazz. With the third overall pick, they selected Enes Freedom, who never panned out as an elite NBA center. Tristan Thompson and Jonas Valančiūnas went four and five, and while neither of them are amazing, they both would have been better bigs than Freedom, which was quite a reach.

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Val was definitely the guy here and everyone knew it. O'Conner didn't want him because they would have had to wait a year to get him. :facepalm

[QUOTE]At 12, the Jazz took Alec Burks. Burks had some solid seasons and [URL="https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/11/utah-jazz-5-best-summer-league-players-history/"]lit it up before he played a real NBA game[/URL], but with Tobias Harris, Nikola Vecevic, and Kawhi Leonard all going soon after Burks, any one of them would have been a better selection. Two early picks, and two big whiffs for Utah. Imagine a lineup with Kawhi and Valančiūnas. How many banners would they win after getting Donovan Mitchell?

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maybe no banners. Kawai is great but you need other guys playing both ends

[QUOTE]With their second-round pick, the Jazz took Erick Green. Green did what you would expect from a mid-second-round guy, and that’s not saying much. At least he never played for Utah, as the Jazz traded him and cash the Denver for Rudy Gobert, which ended up being an excellent move.

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I liked his brief stint with the Jazz. He certainly had potential. He was drafted for Denver though. Denver drafted for Utah

[QUOTE]With the first-round picks, Utah took Shabazz Muhammad and Gorgei Dieng, both of whom are decent role-players. Neither one of them ever played for the Jazz, because Utah traded them to the Timberwolves for Trey Burke, the University of Michigan standout.

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Minny drafted for Jazz as did Denver. Gobert and Burke were the Jazz picks not guys that were drafted for another team

[QUOTE]Instead of Exum, Utah could have taken Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, or Zach LaVine. All of those would have been great picks. At 23, instead of Hood, they could have gotten Clint Capela. Funnily enough, the worst pick may have been Jarnell Stokes. In the second round, it becomes a crapshoot to see who ends up being productive players, but Spencer Dinwiddie, Jerami Grant, Nikola Jokic, Dwight Powell, and Jordan Clarkson were all picked after Stokes. I can’t blame Utah for missing, but they could have lucked into at least one great player in this draft class, right?

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don't think anyone was talking about LaVine that high. Randle and Smart were though. Exum fell and the Jazz pounced unfortubately

[QUOTE]Oliver Hanlan and Dani Diez never played an NBA game, but being picked 42 and 54 with not much talent left in the class means the Jazz did all they could. It’s not like the second round in 2015 was a failure, there just was not much talent there.

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Hanlan looked good in the one summer league game before they traded him

[QUOTE]With four draft picks, one has to hit, right? Well, kind of. The Jazz took Tauren Prince at 12, and Caris LeVert, Pascal Siakam, and Dejounte Murray were all selected much later in the round. Prince never actually played a game for the Jazz, as he was traded to the Hawks in a multi-team deal that landed George Hill. Hill only played 49 games in Utah but he put up 16 points, so the return wasn’t that bad.

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probably could have gotten Prince instead of Beverley which to me makes more sense. Jazz drafted those guys for the Hawks. Jazz were all in to keep Hayward finally! :facepalm

Hill was arguably their most valuable player the first month of that season before he hurt his toe. He should have been brought back or at least replaced by someone that fit like Beverley!

[QUOTE]In the second round, Utah took Isaiah Whitehead, Joel Bolomboy, and Tyrone Wallace. Only Bolomboy played for Utah at all, and I highly doubt anyone remembers him, so this second round went as expected.

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liked Bolomboy. Wallace was a cheaper Exum who actually improved his body and finish after the Jazz just let him go for no good reason

[QUOTE]Tyler Lydon was picked 24th and immediately traded to Denver. Josh Hart went 30th and Thomas Bryant went 42, but they were traded to the Lakers for Tony Bradley, who was not that good. Their 55th pick, Nigel Williams-Goss, played one forgettable season, which tends to be how 55th picks go. I would have loved to have kept Hard and Bryant instead of getting Tony Bradley, but this is the draft that brought Donovan Mitchell to town via Denver, so it all worked out in the end for the Jazz.

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Bradley actually was good. Still in league. The Jazz just like to blame guys playing the smallest roles instead of coaches or hyped up stars. Goss was good. Maybe not athletic enough for the league. They drafted Hart and Bryant for the Lakers!

[QUOTE]I do not like Grayson Allen, but he was a steal at 21. No one immediately behind him has been as good as he has been, and Devnotae Graham and Gary Trent Jr both went in the early second round, so I can’t reasonably see the Jazz passing on Allen to get either of them. This was a good pick, given who was still there.

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biggest problem for Allen was he went to Duke. Graham is Donovan's bud

[QUOTE]The Jazz used the 23rd overall pick to select Darius Bazley, who was then traded to Memphis with other assets for Mike Conley. Utah could have taken Nassir Little, Keldon Johnson, or Jordan Poole, but that late in the first round it was probably better to play it safe.

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They could only take Bazely because that is who OKC wanted!

[QUOTE]With the 53rd pick, Utah took Justin Wright-Foreman, who has only played one season in the NBA, and it was nothing special. Fortunately, no one noteworthy was selected after him.

[/QUOTE]

but he was actually better than Hughes who the drafted to replace him and all gleaguer Brantley! :facepalm

[URL]http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=242st3df[/URL]

I guess the Knicks can trade them 10 firsts including several next draft or some shit somehow and they have the history to do something so stupid. Come on Dolan don't fail us now! Ideally I'd want Mitchell Robinson in the deal. He just signed(or maybe just agreed to a deal and they can still do a sign and trade somehow) so it's not in the trade tracker and it might have to wait until December 15th or whatever to make the deal? Gay doesn't work in this deal but maybe if Robinson is included he or another of their vets can be in it? Barrett and Reddish are up for extensions now so you'd have to weigh that. Keels not yet 19! McBride 21. Toppin and Robinson the oldest at 24. Add them to Kessler, Bolambo, Butler, Nickel and Udoka, all under 24, and the tank is official. Nice mix of prospects and proven young vets. Ainge will be having fun again! Trade the other vets for picks/assets/young guys

pg Quickley/Butler/Forrest/McBride(Stars)
sg Barrett/Grimes/Keels(two way)(Stars)
sf Reddish/Walker-Alexander/Bolambo(Stars)/Juang(2 way)(Stars)
pf Vanderbilt/Toppin/Paschall
c Robinson/Udoka/Kessler(Stars)

The Stars should be good again too!

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/13/nick-wright-suggests-donovan-mitchell-cant-win-title/[/url]

[QUOTE]While it is true that the Jazz have had little playoff success in Mithcell’s five seasons it Utah, it is absolutely asinine to suggest he can’t be the best player on a championship team. With the right pieces around him, Mitchell could absolutely lead a team to the NBA Finals.

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hard to imagine that scenario. Had the best defensive player in the world covering for him and we saw the result. Who covers for him?

[QUOTE]Recent history suggests that I’m right. Mitchell, Devin Booker, and Jayson Tatum all play similar positions, and both of them have gone all the way to the Finals in the very recent past. Yes, Mitchell is slightly less efficient of a scorer and plays worse defense, but he is the best volume scorer out of those three and is arguably the best playmaker and all-around offensive weapon. If Mitchell were surrounded by an ideal lineup of a pass-first point guard, a true three-and-d player, a rim-running power forward, and a pick-and-roll dominant center, then the Jazz could be in excellent shape.

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those guys are bigger and better. He's not in their class

[QUOTE]How might this lineup come together? They could[URL="https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/11/3-power-forwards-the-utah-jazz-could-target-in-a-trade/"] trade for John Collins[/URL], an athletic, defensive-minded forward, and they could also make a move for Myles Turner, who is not quite on the same level as Rudy Gobert but poses a much better threat offensively. Conley or Patrick Beverly could be that guy, and Bojan Bogdanovic is still an elite shooter.

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lottery. Might as well get young guys and picks

[QUOTE]LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Luka Doncic, and Nikola Jokic all need help, in the form of solid rosters around them. They are all undisputedly the best players on their team, but no one man can get a team a banner, so why is it expected that Mitchell has to be the guy? He can be the best player on a championship team for sure, but the roster needs to be complete and filled out, the same as it would be for any other superstar.

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probably won't have a better roster than he did two years ago again. Knicks won't Jazz won't

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/12/utah-jazz-donovan-mitchell-next-go/[/url]

[QUOTE]Wojnarowski suggests that the asking price is steep, perhaps too high, but the Jazz are no longer just hanging up the phone. Does this mean the end for the current Jazz roster? Or is this just more off-season smoke and mirrors? Utah definitely cannot compete with the current roster minus Mitchell, so the return on him would have to be future based, with unprotected picks, and a lot of them. Is there any team willing to mortgage their future? Mitchell is a top-20 player and is only 25. Dejounte Murray is not quite the player Mitchell is, and he’s the same age. The Spurs got four picks for Murray, so Utah should ask for more than that.[/QUOTE]

Murray is the better player. If someone offers more you have to pounce?

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/12/utah-jazz-reacting-wild-proposed-four-team-trade/[/url]

[QUOTE][I]Utah receives: [/I]Buddy Hield (Indiana), Cam Thomas (Brooklyn), Joe Harris (Brooklyn), Ben Simmons (Brooklyn), 2023, 2025, 2027 unprotected first round picks (Phoenix), 2029 top-five protected first round pick (Phoenix), 2026, 2028 first round pick swap (Phoenix).

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no thanks on Simmons. Damaged goods! next

[url]https://hoopshabit.com/2022/07/13/nba-trades-donovan-mitchell-utah-jazz/[/url]

[QUOTE]This is the most obvious deal on the market. Mitchell has been connected to the Heat for a long time and they have been the team that has been reportedly looking to make a deal for him for a while.

[/QUOTE]

Knicks deal the best

[QUOTE]A core of Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Jimmy Butler, and Kyle Lowry would be one of the most talented in the league, and after being the one-seed this past season, it would likely only improve their chances.

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You think Butler will let Mitchell slide on D? :roll:

[url]https://fansided.com/2022/07/12/donovan-mitchell-trade-rumors-knicks-lakers-heat-offer/2/[/url]

Lakers have nothing. Wouldn't want Davis

[url]https://fansided.com/2022/07/12/nba-rumors-donovan-mitchell-trade-jazz/[/url]

[QUOTE]“After previously shutting down inquiries on moving All-Star guard Donovan Mitchell, rival teams say the Utah Jazz are showing a willingness to listen on possible trade scenarios, sources tell ESPN,” [URL="https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1546972364348329985?s=20&t=s6VEwTNBbk_sI9YuPRtyQw"]Wojnarowski tweeted on Tuesday[/URL].

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Sounds like it will probably happen. I'd say trade deadline though

[url]https://sircharlesincharge.com/2022/07/12/nba-trade-rumors-jazz-mitchell-shop/[/url]

[QUOTE]You can take the Gobert deal as an outline and then add to it. That’s what it will cost to land Mitchell.

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you really couldn't turn that down. He's younger yes but he's never had the impact that Gobert has and at 25 he likely never will with the game he chooses to play

[url]https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267927/Some-Insiders-Believe-Donovan-Mitchell-To-Knicks-An-Inevitability[/url]

[QUOTE]"The New York Knicks have eight tradable first round picks and a need and a desire for a star player like Donovan Mitchell, who is from the New York area," said Brian Windhorst. "Some people believe this is an inevitability. It's just a matter of what price can be negotiated. Other teams are interested in Mitchell and it can go in a different direction. They can keep Mitchell, or at least posture they're going to keep Mitchell. But I think we're going to hear a lot about Mitchell and the New York Knicks in the coming days."

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make sure you get the pick swaps Danny. Knicks will still be a shit show!

[url]https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267925/Jazz-Have-Explored-Sign-And-Trade-With-Cavaliers-For-Collin-Sexton[/url]

[QUOTE]The Utah Jazz have explored sign-and-trade scenarios with the Cleveland Cavaliers that would send Mike Conley for Collin Sexton.

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Garland, Rubio, Conley and Neto? Last year it was bigs!

[QUOTE]Sexton averaged 24.3 points, 3.1 rebounds and 4.4 assists in 35.3 minutes over 60 games during the 20-21 season. Sexton suffered a torn ACL 11 games into his 21-22 season.

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This would be a sure indicator Mitchell is gone. I compared him to Mitchell already because of those numbers though. The difference I see is Gobert

Eddie Johnson: I [URL="http://twitter.com/Jumpshot8/status/1547297249205501952"]have a feeling that a Mega Blockbuster trade @NBA is going to happen and it could involve 3 to 5 teams, now that D Mitchell is on the block as expected! [/URL]

– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Jumpshot8"]Twitter Jumpshot8[/URL]

Clutch Points: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]“I’m willing to bet everything I own and have in the bank account that he will be gone from the Utah Jazz.”[/URL] Kendrick Perkins doesn’t see Donovan Mitchell staying on the Jazz team this year pic.twitter.com/spBVoVvAH0

[HR][/HR] [INDENT] “I’m willing to bet everything I own and have in the bank account that he will be gone from the Utah Jazz.”
Kendrick Perkins doesn’t see Donovan Mitchell staying on the Jazz team this year [URL="https://t.co/spBVoVvAH0"]pic.twitter.com/spBVoVvAH0[/URL]

— ClutchPoints (@ClutchPointsApp) [URL="https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1547303858832953349?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]July 13, 2022[/URL][/INDENT]

– via [URL="https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp"]Twitter ClutchPointsApp[/URL]