I still think Jokic is underrated

Also Jokic is actually top 5 in the league in steals, and his advanced defensive metrics are a bit above average. When they won the title they were very good, a few tenths of a point better than Giannis IIRC.

You can also tell with the eye test that while he concedes baskets that will only result in And1s anyway, he positions himself so that opponents get fewer of those opportunities. Opponents miss a lot of bunnies around the basket just by him standing there.

So if you actually have an IQ and see the games, you can see whats going on. But if you're a Jokic hater because you have a shit tier life a la rrr3 and highwey, the "hes so slow and bad defense!" is your cope to try and diminish him, albeit at the cost of embarrassing yourself even more than usual.

[URL="https://x.com/statmuse/status/1882641046817157624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1882641046817157624%7Ctwgr%5Ed30f931244efe0da52bb20eae766fe36a197f4ef%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2433640"]https://x.com/statmuse/status/1882641046817157624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1882641046817157624%7Ctwgr%5Ed30f931244efe0da52bb20eae766fe36a197f4ef%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2433640[/URL]

This is a crazy stat :lol

Crazy thing is Jokic leads the league by far in 'heave' attempts with 10 on the season. Theres a couple guys with six and a couple with five and then everyone else four or less. A while back he BATTED an inbounds pass volleyball style the full length of the court and actually came reasonably close.

I suspect hes been low key working on these shots, simply because there is nothing else to get better at. Hes gotten so good at the standard game that all there is left to tangibly improve are his full court buzzer beaters.

And the crazy thing is, there could be some playoff scenario where that actually pays off. The fact that he completed the last obscure piece of his development, the end of buzzer full court heave, could actually save a game for them at some point. Not that he can make the shot everytime, but if the practice increases his odds just by a littttttle bit... it could conceivably make the difference between winning or losing a chip.

[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14971975]Crazy thing is Jokic leads the league by far in 'heave' attempts with 10 on the season. Theres a couple guys with six and a couple with five and then everyone else four or less. A while back he BATTED an inbounds pass volleyball style the full length of the court and actually came reasonably close.

I suspect hes been low key working on these shots, simply because there is nothing else to get better at. Hes gotten so good at the standard game that all there is left to tangibly improve are his full court buzzer beaters.

And the crazy thing is, there could be some playoff scenario where that actually pays off. The fact that he completed the last piece of his development, the end of buzzer full court heave, and it actually saves a game for them at some point. Not that he can make the shot everytime, but if the practice increases his odds just by a little bitttttt... it could conceivably make the difference between winning or losing a chip.[/QUOTE]

His dexterity (coordination of the fingers and hands) is about as good as it gets. He'd make a great surgeon.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14971969][URL="https://x.com/statmuse/status/1882641046817157624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1882641046817157624%7Ctwgr%5Ed30f931244efe0da52bb20eae766fe36a197f4ef%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2433640"]https://x.com/statmuse/status/1882641046817157624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1882641046817157624%7Ctwgr%5Ed30f931244efe0da52bb20eae766fe36a197f4ef%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2433640[/URL]

This is a crazy stat :lol[/QUOTE]

Rick Barry one caught me off guard. Wonder if they counted his ABA days.

Did Jokic play water polo growing up? His ability to play with the ball above his head is the best I've ever seen.

Catches the ball like he's got glue on his hands. Doesn't need to dip on his shots at all because he shoots it behind his head. Makes passes from overhead like no one does. Perfectly blends these two together making it extremely difficult to predict what he's going to do.

Water polo. That's what it reminds me of.

[img]https://media.tenor.com/NwuN4bENmIcAAAAM/goal-olympics.gif[/img]
[img]https://gifdb.com/images/high/montenegro-water-polo-u2s2yl3q3bs2oon4.gif[/img]

It is also odd how Jokic shoots his one legged shots of the wrong foot. Truly 1 of 1. Definitely the best 2nd round pick ever lol.

[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14971975]Crazy thing is Jokic leads the league by far in 'heave' attempts with 10 on the season. Theres a couple guys with six and a couple with five and then everyone else four or less. A while back he BATTED an inbounds pass volleyball style the full length of the court and actually came reasonably close.

I suspect hes been low key working on these shots, simply because there is nothing else to get better at. Hes gotten so good at the standard game that all there is left to tangibly improve are his full court buzzer beaters.

And the crazy thing is, there could be some playoff scenario where that actually pays off. The fact that he completed the last obscure piece of his development, the end of buzzer full court heave, could actually save a game for them at some point. Not that he can make the shot everytime, but if the practice increases his odds just by a littttttle bit... it could conceivably make the difference between winning or losing a chip.[/QUOTE]

Only 10? LeBron has attempted 11 in the last 15 seasons :oldlol:

I like dude, but some of you guys are close to slurping. It doesn’t help anyone see his uniqueness and talent to gush like that. It’s like when you turn on a game and all the announcers do is talk about one player regardless of what is happening.

Hard to see him as underrated in this thread.

-Smak

[QUOTE=ILLsmak;14971986]I like dude, but some of you guys are close to slurping. It doesn’t help anyone see his uniqueness and talent to gush like that. It’s like when you turn on a game and all the announcers do is talk about one player regardless of what is happening.

Hard to see him as underrated in this thread.

-Smak[/QUOTE]

He's not underrated now, but he was 3 years ago when I made this thread. He was clearly starting a GOAT-level run yet the average fan and media member was shitting on him. He was putting up prime Lebron/MJ impact numbers and yet he was talked about less than even Tim Duncan was. There were clear reasons why this happened, but Jokic pretty much made EVERYONE take notice.

At what point does he start entering the GOAT discussions?

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14972035]He's not underrated now, but he was 3 years ago when I made this thread. He was clearly starting a GOAT-level run yet the average fan and media member was shitting on him. [B]He was putting up prime Lebron/MJ impact numbers and yet he was talked about less than even Tim Duncan was[/B]. There were clear reasons why this happened, but Jokic pretty much made EVERYONE take notice.[/QUOTE]

Duncan's like a top 7-8 player in the history of the league. Saying Jokic back in 2022 was 'less than Tim Duncan' shouldn't be considered an insult. Even today, while Jokic obviously is a transcendent offensive talent and we're all prisoners of the moment, Duncan's impact as a two way force has few peers. He may be one of the few players you really can't nitpick much about his career.

It's really wild. I never seen a player like this.

Advance stats wise, he's up there or better than MJ/Lebron seasons. Of course stats don't show everything. And especially defense.

And with watching him when it comes to the eye test, I'm still in awe. I thought of him like a big Larry Bird. But the way he plays is refreshing and beautiful to watch on the offensive end. The way he moves without the ball with coming off screens as a center, his positioning with the post up, his pick and pop/roll game, his screens, his footwork...everything is elite. But his passing game is GOAT lvl. And there are times where it doesn't seem like he is doing much until he look at the stats and he has 17/7/7 in the first half. He doesn't even hold on to the ball for that long. He plays within the flow of the game.

Like Magic and Bird, dude could take less than 10 shots and still be the best player on the floor just because the way he controls the game.

If he was better defensively, I think he'll be the best player I ever seen. He isn't bad defensively, and has stepped up this month on that end. It just that Kareem, Lebron, MJ were all better two way players.

He doesn't get talked about as much as LeBron and Curry. Jokic doesn't want the attention, he plays in a small market, and he isn't from the USA. I do think Jokic is the best offensive player ever. It's wild to even say that because I saw Curry 16, LeBron, Magic and MJ. But Jokic is something else. This season period is goat lvl offense.

We're witness other great performances too. Giannis is amazing, SGA is the best two way guard since MJ/Kobe. Shame Luka and Embiid are hurt this season because they are great historically too. And Wemby is coming up.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14972035]He's not underrated now, but he was 3 years ago when I made this thread. He was clearly starting a GOAT-level run yet the average fan and media member was shitting on him. He was putting up prime Lebron/MJ impact numbers and yet he was talked about less than even Tim Duncan was. There were clear reasons why this happened, but Jokic pretty much made EVERYONE take notice.[/QUOTE]

He's really good, and he's really unique. I am not ready to rate him all time, though. He's definitely one of the big names of his era, maybe the only real high impact player of this era so far.

-Smak

Denver backup crew sucks so bad though.