Wilt the "Choker"

[QUOTE=millwad]You fukkin' phagg0t, I didn't ask for what kind of defense Wilt faced, I only said that he didn't face the same amount of double teams as Shaq and Hakeem, he didn't. Your two pages of copy and paste is equal to crap.[/QUOTE]

Now it is YOUR turn. You PROVE to me that Hakeem and Shaq faced more double-teams than Wilt.

[QUOTE=jlauber][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239811&page=4[/url][/QUOTE]


Still doesn't say that I claim that the '99 season was the first season Hakeem got outrebounded.. And the first thing in that I did was too admit that I recalled it wrongly so what are you about?

All you do is put up pure nonsense a la Hakeem getting killed by Shaq in the '95 finals. Hakeem being a worse player than Thurmond, Wilt getting killed, abused and crushed by Wilt in the '72 playoffs series (while Kareem averaged 23 points more per game on better FG% and outassisting Wilt, haha).

And the most lame crap you ever put up was when you tried to put up a great list of tall guys Wilt faced in his statprime and you failed big time. Talking about lies, according to you Wilt faced players who never even were in the league at the same time as Wilt and you even mentioned players from ABA who never played in the NBA... HAHA.. That's called lying, you phagg0t.


[QUOTE=jlauber]
Kareem poured a game of 40 points on Hakeem in Olajuwon's rookie season, 84-85, AND, then the 38 year old Kareem dumped TWO 40+ games on Hakeem in his SECOND season. It got so bad, that the Houston coach had to finally admit his failure, and put Sampson on the 38 year old Kareem in the playoffs (of course, Hakeem did help DOUBLE Kareem, as well.)[/QUOTE]

First of all, rookie Hakeem and 2nd year pro Hakeem doesn't mean crap, Hakeem was no where close his defensive prime as I've stated thousand times, in neither his first or second pro year. And he crushed the Lakers in the playoffs that same year as a 2nd year pro.. phagg0t

And I'm still waiting for your proof of Wilt blocking more than 15 of Kareem's skyhooks in the '72 series where Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game on better FG% and outassisted Wilt and shot FT's twice as good as Wilt...

And you don't have to put 3 essays or own conclusions, give me straight facts.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Now it is YOUR turn. You PROVE to me that Hakeem and Shaq faced more double-teams than Wilt.[/QUOTE]

Your eyes can do that job, watch the footage of Wilt that's out there, and then compare it to footage of prime Hakeem and prime Shaq.

[QUOTE]And the most lame crap you ever put up was when you tried to put up a great list of tall guys Wilt faced in his statprime and you failed big time. Talking about lies, according to you Wilt faced players who never even were in the league at the same time as Wilt and you even mentioned players from ABA who never played in the NBA... HAHA.. That's called lying, you phagg0t[/QUOTE]

[url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100727234728AAZxTUR[/url]

[QUOTE]Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Artis Gilmore: 7'2"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"

Two other factors to keep in mind:

a. The NBA was less interested in promoting itself 40 years ago, and therefore, did not see the need to measure players with their shoes on. [B]Almost all players today are listed 1-2 inches taller than their actual height[/B].


Furthermore, I don't care if Ron Taylor was in the ABA. He was 7-1, and wasn't good enough to play in Wilt's NBA. YOU claim that Wilt did NOT face tall players. I would argue that faced PLENTY of them (and in leagues with 8 to 17 teams.) Not that height has any real bearing on greatness. 6-7 Ben Wallace was the best defensive center of the 00's.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=millwad]Your eyes can do that job, watch the footage of Wilt that's out there, and then compare it to footage of prime Hakeem and prime Shaq.[/QUOTE]

There are only a HANDFUL of Wilt's games on YouTube. He played in 1200 games. Furthermore, another poster brought up game four of the '64 Finals...which was actually just the second HALF. That footage is broken up into several, and just in the second one alone, Wilt was doubled nearly every time down the court.

In any case, I gave you a TON of quotes from PEERS and the media who COVERED Chamberlain. Find me anywhere near the amount showing that Hakeem was BRUTALIZED while being SWARMED as Wilt was.

I will agree that SHAQ was often doubled...but I would not concede it was more than a PRIME Chamberlain.

[QUOTE=jlauber][url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100727234728AAZxTUR[/url][/QUOTE]

You idiot, it wasn't only Taylor..
Eakins never played in the league at the same time as Wilt and the 3 time ABA-allstar Billy Paultz was in the ABA and never faced Wilt either. Raymond played a total of 27 NBA games.

It's really funny you know, why would anyone make up names in a list regarding Wilt's competition, and you call me a liar? HAHAHAHA! Putting up an ABA starplayer as Wilt's competition when the guy never even was on the same court as Wilt..:facepalm

You're a joke...

[QUOTE=jlauber]There are only a HANDFUL of Wilt's games on YouTube. He played in 1200 games. Furthermore, another poster brought up game four of the '64 Finals...which was actually just the second HALF. That footage is broken up into several, and just in the second one alone, Wilt was doubled nearly every time down the court.

In any case, I gave you a TON of quotes from PEERS and the media who COVERED Chamberlain. Find me anywhere near the amount showing that Hakeem was BRUTALIZED while being SWARMED as Wilt was.

I will agree that SHAQ was often doubled...but I would not concede it was more than a PRIME Chamberlain.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you're gonna prove stuff by stuff you read. Bu-bu-but in that case Wilt had sex with 20 000 women too, it was written, so was his so-called FT-dunks and 50 inch vertical and his beef with the mountain lion and his world class volleyballplayer career and that Wilt would average 70 points per game today and that Wilt broke a guys toe when he dunked a ball on it yadi yadi...

[QUOTE=jlauber]I won't bother copy-and-pasting all of it...

just scroll down and read PHILA's POSTS on the subject...

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235497&page=2[/url]

Even TIME MAGAZINE declared that a Wilt DECISIVELY outplayed Kareem. Of course, you wouldn't know that, since you didn't WATCH that series![/QUOTE]

You didn't watch the series either and you prove time after time that you don't know what "decisively" means..

[QUOTE=millwad]And I'm still waiting for your proof of Wilt blocking more than 15 of Kareem's skyhooks in the '72 series where Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game on better FG% and outassisted Wilt and shot FT's twice as good as Wilt...

And you don't have to put 3 essays or own conclusions, give me straight facts.[/QUOTE]

I made a mockery of your claim in a post awhile back. I am not going to go thru my Cherry and Rosen books again. However, just in THREE games of the '72 WCF's Wilt was on record as blocking 15 of Kareem's shots. Maybe not all skyhooks, but surely most of them were. BTW, Kareem took about ANOTHER 100 shots in the other three games, and I am reasonably certain that Wilt was blocking his skyhook in those games, as well.

So, instead of me having to dig up all of MY research, why don't YOU do some actual research, and rebuff my take.

In the meantime, you can disprove this quote, as well.

BTW, Wilt blocks TWO of Kareem's skyhooks in a matter of a few seconds...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq4CWeWaKg[/url]

[QUOTE]@tank3ful [B]In a h2h playoff series in the early 70's Wilt Blocked KAJ's skyhook 23 times. He was a living breathing anti-skyhook.[/B]/watch?v=3BKEgX5E_E4 (his young leaping ability/reach - top of the backboard!)
/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc (his sheer dominance in a complete NCAA final four game - rare footage)
/watch?v=c3jkRpOfP9k (footage of him young and in his physical PRIME)
His standing reach is higher and wider than Yao ming, he's as nearly as heavy as Shaq, and he was as fleet as a small guard
dantheman9758 1 week ago[/QUOTE]


Or dispute this one...

[url]http://www.amazon.com/Wilt-Larger-Robert-Allen-Cherry/dp/1572436727[/url]

[QUOTE]Bill Russell may have won all those championships, but not even Russell was a match for Wilt statisically. Chamberlain almost always outscored and out rebounded Russell in every encounter. Russell no doubt almost always had the better teams. Abdul Jabbar played 20 seasons to Wilts 13, and yet Chamberlain has several thousand more lifetime rebounds. [B]In the twilight of his career, a 35 year old Wilt led the Lakers to victory over the Bucks and a 25 year old Jabbar during the 1972 playoffs. Even more astounding, was wilt blocked 20 shots in two consecutive games in that series, and 11 of those blocked shots were on Kareem[/B]. Who the heck ever did that to Jabbar. Makes you wonder what Wilt would have done in his prime. As great as Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Magic Johnson were, none of them had the impact or dominance of Wilt Chamberlain. The rules of the game were altered upon Wilts arrival into the league. Modern day fans talk of Shaq being the greatest center of all-time. [B]Does anyone out there think Shaq could have blocked 11 Kareem shots in two games[/B]? Shaq wouldn't have been able to leap high enough to block a skyhook. That statistic alone, should be enough to convince anyone of Wilts athleticism. [/QUOTE]

And given the fact that Wilt and Kareem faced off 28 times, I would think that Chamberlain probably blocked between 50-100 skyhooks in that span.

Of course, I could also say that I WATCHED Wilt ROUTINELY rejecting Kareem's skyhook, but you wouldn't believe it. Mainly because you wouldn't want to.

[QUOTE=millwad]You didn't watch the series either and you prove time after time that you don't know what "decisively" means..[/QUOTE]


Huh? What is YOUR definition of DECISIVELY?

[QUOTE=millwad][B]Yeah, you're gonna prove stuff by stuff you read[/B]. Bu-bu-but in that case Wilt had sex with 20 000 women too, it was written, so was his so-called FT-dunks and 50 inch vertical and his beef with the mountain lion and his world class volleyballplayer career and that Wilt would average 70 points per game today and that Wilt broke a guys toe when he dunked a ball on it yadi yadi...[/QUOTE]

You're right. We can't PROVE anything by what we READ.:facepalm

You are truly pathetic.

[QUOTE=jlauber]I made a mockery of your claim in a post awhile back. I am not going to go thru my Cherry and Rosen books again. [B]However, just in THREE games of the '72 WCF's Wilt was on record as blocking 15 of Kareem's shots. Maybe not all skyhooks, but surely most of them were. BTW, Kareem took about ANOTHER 100 shots in the other three games, and I am reasonably certain that Wilt was blocking his skyhook in those games, as well.[/B][/QUOTE]

Haha, you *******, I knew you were BS'ing.. I couldn't care about your conclusions, I asked for facts and as usual you couldn't deliver.. You even claimed that he blocked more than 15 skyhooks, likely 20:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]
So, instead of me having to dig up all of MY research, why don't YOU do some actual research, and rebuff my take.[/QUOTE]

I don't have to do any research regarding this subject, you were the idiot who brought this nonsense up.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
In the meantime, you can disprove this quote, as well.

BTW, Wilt blocks TWO of Kareem's skyhooks in a matter of a few seconds...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq4CWeWaKg[/url][/QUOTE]

Doesn't prove that he blocked 15 skyhooks in a series, STILL.


[QUOTE=jlauber]
Or dispute this one...

[url]http://www.amazon.com/Wilt-Larger-Robert-Allen-Cherry/dp/1572436727[/url][/QUOTE]


Haha, you idiot, Robert Allen Cherry was Wilt's own biographer...:facepalm
And great, now the idiot Jlauber uses youtube-posters as "DanTheMan" as one of his sources.. Wow, you're such a retard.

[QUOTE=jlauber]
Of course, I could also say that I WATCHED Wilt ROUTINELY rejecting Kareem's skyhook, but you wouldn't believe it. Mainly because you wouldn't want to.[/QUOTE]

Sure, just like you saw all the other Wilt footage, on youtube..:facepalm

[QUOTE=jlauber]You're right. We can't PROVE anything by what we READ.:facepalm

You are truly pathetic.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you use Yahoo-comments and youtube-comments among your sources, haha.. And quotes by Wilt's own biographer.. Haha..

[url]http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/wilt-chamberlain-vs-kareem-abdul-jabbar-game-game-stats-1401716/[/url]

19.Date: Fri 04/14/72
- Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA