Would Bulls fans trade Derrick Rose for LeBron James if they had the chance?

And yup.. just looked it up and lebron's eFG is higher for his career than jordan's.

Lebron's 2pt percentage is actually the SAME as jordan's. What lowers lebron's FG% is that he takes more threes and FG% desn't account for the fact that 3pointers are worth 50% more than 2pointers. It's unadjusted. When you adjust it, you see that lebron is actually MORE efficient for his career from the field than jordan. It's undebatable.

The reason jordan has a higher TS despite having a lower eFG is because jordan was a much better free throw shooter.. so these stats actually reflect reality perfectly.:oldlol:

[QUOTE=chazzy]You're not accounting for volume at all though. Lebron shot more 3s (2x+ as many) at a similar percentage and got to the line at a better rate. If you want to make it more simple then Jordan scored 30 on 23 shots, Lebron 28 on 20 shots. Of course, if you compare them you have to factor in perimeter rules which help players get to the line more.[/QUOTE]

Exactly my point. Thank you. Taking a bunch of threes is highly valued by True Shooting.

Therefore its not as accurate as the raw data.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]You can't ignore the raw data. Jesus Christ. how do you not see this?

You keep saying its an opinion. Its not an opinion. You aren't using anything but an estimation that manipulates the raw data. Its your opinion of what efficiency actually is. Mine is different.

So we have Jordan making a higher percentage of field goals (counts every shot 2s and 3s) and shooting 9% better from the the ft line yet his TS percentage is virtually identical.

That is simply not accurate enough of true efficiency.[/QUOTE]
Not opinions. Facts.:oldlol:

Lebron has a higher 2pt percentage than michael and overall he is more efficient from the field(if you ignore FTs) because his eFG(points/possesions adjusted for the fact that three points contribute 50% more points) is higher than jordan's.

[QUOTE=tpols]And yup.. just looked it up and lebron's eFG is higher for his career than jordan's.

Lebron's 2pt percentage is actually the SAME as jordan's. What lowers lebron's FG% is that he takes more threes and FG% desn't account for the fact that 3pointers are worth 50% more than 2pointers. It's unadjusted. When you adjust it, you see that lebron is actually MORE efficient for his career from the field than jordan. It's undebatable.

The reason jordan has a higher TS despite having a lower eFG is because jordan was a much better free throw shooter.. so these stats actually reflect reality perfectly.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Actually they don't at all. It only accurately reflects efficiency if you want to claim that missing shots is of no consequence.

And taking threes is absolutely reflected in normal fg% and evidenced by ppg.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Holy hell @ the idiocy in this thread.

lol @ most of the people that wouldn't trade a once in three years player for a once in a generation player. Amazing. ****ing amazing. The hype is out of control, or people really don't understand what they're watching. Or... both.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Exactly my point. Thank you. Taking a bunch of threes is highly valued by True Shooting.
[/QUOTE]
Because they're worth 3 points. I feel like you keep talking about 3s as if they're just low percentage shots that count for 2 points, and get weighted more for no reason :lol

[QUOTE=Orlando Magic]Holy hell @ the idiocy in this thread.

lol @ most of the people that wouldn't trade a once in three years player for a once in a generation player. Amazing. ****ing amazing. The hype is out of control, or people really don't understand what they're watching. Or... both.[/QUOTE]


It's not about the players it's about the team.


We are doing DAMN WELL without Bron so screw him.


Why mess up a team, org, city for one guy when we have a young superstar who wants to be here?

We all know how Lebron acts when he doesn't get his way.

:violin:

[QUOTE=chazzy]Because they're worth 3 points. I feel like you keep talking about 3s as if they're just low percentage shots that count for 2 points, and get weighted more for no reason :lol[/QUOTE]

Its about how they are weighted.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]It's not about the players it's about the team.


We are doing DAMN WELL without Bron so screw him.


Why mess up a team, org, city for one guy when we have a young superstar who wants to be here?

We all know how Lebron acts when he doesn't get his way.

:violin:[/QUOTE]

Go Getter: My team is doing great so I wouldn't trade Kwame Brown for peak Shaq. Makes perfect sense... in my mind. ;)

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]
And taking threes is absolutely reflected in normal fg% and evidenced by ppg.
[/QUOTE]
No it's not. :oldlol:

A player can score 24ppg on 40%FG.. seems really bad right? Not necessarily.

What if said player is exclusively a 3pt shooter and he averages 8/20 makes/attempts a game with all of them being 3s?

FG would tell us this is a terribly inefficient scorer but in actuality he has a 60%eFG efficiency from the floor meaning he will take away 20 of his teammates scoring opportunities but capitalize on those opporutnities by scoring 24 points.. making him much more than a volume scorer.. something his FG and ppg would tell you COMPLETELY otherwise.

You make no sense bro.:oldlol:

[QUOTE=tpols]And yup.. just looked it up and lebron's eFG is higher for his career than jordan's.

Lebron's 2pt percentage is actually the SAME as jordan's. What lowers lebron's FG% is that he takes more threes and FG% desn't account for the fact that 3pointers are worth 50% more than 2pointers. It's unadjusted. When you adjust it, you see that lebron is actually MORE efficient for his career from the field than jordan. It's undebatable.

The reason jordan has a higher TS despite having a lower eFG is because jordan was a much better free throw shooter.. so these stats actually reflect reality perfectly.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Uh, have you see Jordan's eFG %'s his first 8 seasons in the league? Wait until LeBron retires or goes into his 30's. His efficiency will drop like a rock.

Jordan:
.518
.462
.484
.537
.546
.550
.547
.526



LeBron:
.438
.504
.515
.507
.518
.530
.545
.541

So no, even when you take 3's into account, Jordan is still in every measure more efficient than LeBron.

[QUOTE=chazzy]Because they're worth 3 points. I feel like you keep talking about 3s as if they're just low percentage shots that count for 2 points, and get weighted more for no reason :lol[/QUOTE]
What this comes down to is gino thinks a 33%3pt shooter=/=a 50% 2pt shooter.

He values how many misses/makes a player has as how efficient he was. That's his opinion.

The true measure of efficiency has already been defined for him multiple times.

[QUOTE=tpols]No it's not. :oldlol:

A player can score 24ppg on 40%FG.. seems really bad right? Not necessarily.

What if said player is exclusively a 3pt shooter and he averages 8/20 makes/attempts a game with all of them being 3s?

FG would tell us this is a terribly inefficient scorer but in actuality he has a 60%eFG efficiency from the floor meaning he will take away 20 of his teammates scoring opportunities but capitalize on those opporutnities by scoring 24 points.. making him much more than a volume scorer.. something his FG and ppg would tell you COMPLETELY otherwise.

You make no sense bro.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

That is absolutely represented in the raw data. All you have to look at is his 3pt % and attempts.

You act like I'm saying TS has no place in the conversation no matter what. I never said that.

Its just not very accurate in a lot of scenarios. Like in the Deng scenario or the Lebron vs Jordan scenario.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Uh, have you see Jordan's eFG %'s his first 8 seasons in the league? Wait until LeBron retires or goes into his 30's. His efficiency will drop like a rock.

Jordan:
.518
.462
.484
.537
.546
.550
.547
.526



LeBron:
.438
.504
.515
.507
.518
.530
.545
.541

So no, even when you take 3's into account, Jordan is still in every measure more efficient than LeBron.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I'm just using the overall numbers in general for the argument of why TS and eFG are essential stats to use when comparing players who take differing amounts of three pointers. I wasn't really doing an in depth analysis of jordan and lebron.

[QUOTE=Orlando Magic]Go Getter: My team is doing great so I wouldn't trade Kwame Brown for peak Shaq. Makes perfect sense... in my mind. ;)[/QUOTE]


Not so sure if Kwame for Shaq is the same deal as Rose+players for Lebron.

Changing a team's identity is a risky thing.

Lebron has a reputation for being whiny and discontent when things don't go his way.

Our organization is built with a different type of player.

Adding Lebron would not only change the team's roster, but it's attitude.

Why would we mess with that when we have most of the league admiring our style of play?