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[QUOTE=Calabis]My bad I misread, I was comparing Kobe and Lebron at same age, didn't know we were talking about 32 year old Kobe, vs prime Lebron.....not fair for Kobe imo.[/QUOTE]
All good. I can see why you got confused.
Apparently Indian Guy thinks LeBron has just as much mileage as Kobe does at 32, though. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Samurai Swoosh]Good point.
But Kobe has been having knee troubles ever since the end of 2003.
:(
LeBron's never had any kind of major injury, let alone to like a load barring ligament like the one in Kobe's right knee
And his athleticism is already almost shot.
I mean hell, I saw Kobe even on that bad knee and hurt ankle go around Trevor Ariza quite a few times off the dribble in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]
It's really a testament to how underrated of an athlete he is (well that and how tremendous his will is). Most guys would have called it quits by now, but Kobe is a different animal. Dude is still trying to find ways to recharge/regroup for next season.
Who is IndianGuy trying to kid? He's only making himself look stupid at this point. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=catch24]It's really a testament to how underrated of an athlete he is (well that and how tremendous his will is). Most guys would have called it quits by now, but Kobe, even now, is still trying to find ways to recharge/regroup for next season.[/QUOTE]
Dude is a basketball dork like us ... plain and simple. He loves the game.
[QUOTE=catch24]I also recognize Kobe has played in far more finals than LeBron, with at least 7+ more years on him. Apparently you forgot about Kobe going through 2-3 knee surgeries (including arthroscopic--which can be career ending).[/quote]
What does any of this have to do with LeBron being no more effective than Kobe at breaking down a defense in the half-court? 32 is not that old, regardless of mileage. Kobe, unlike LeBron, weighs nothing and when feeling well, can still look quick on the floor(against NOH in the playoffs, for example). When was the last time you thought LeBron looked quick and explosive on the basketball court? By that I mean in an entire game, not just the odd dunk here or there.
[quote]I consider Dirk, Nash and Ray Allen to be on completely different levels, as shooters, than Kobe[/quote]
That's convenient :oldlol:. In your previous post you merely considered them better shooters, but after I threw some numbers, you suddenly find them [i]on a completely different level[/i]? GTFOH.
[quote]CP3 and Durant would be clearly better.[/quote]
Which is complete BS. Their entire advantage stems from a far higher FT%. So according to your logic, if someone's efficiency is a wash from 10-23+ feet on the basketball court, the one with the higher FT% should be considered the "clearly" or "easily" better shooter? So current Kobe is easily a better shooter than '98 MJ? '03 T-Mac?
I'm not buying your BS. You're just sticking to this so you wouldn't end up looking like a hypocrite for your stance on Kobe-LeBron. Just admit it you were way off about them, man. Because your stupid FT% logic doesn't really carryover to other comparisons, or even the LeBron-Kobe comparison.
IndianGuy is a troll and everyone here knows that, he doesn't actually read your posts he just makes up bullshit and posts.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]What does any of this have to do with LeBron being no more effective than Kobe at breaking down a defense in the half-court? 32 is not that old, regardless of mileage. Kobe weighs nothing and can still look quick on the floor(against NOH in the playoffs, for example). When was the last time you thought LeBron looked quick and explosive on the basketball court? By that I mean in an entire game, not just the odd dunk here or there.[/quote]
Plenty. You've clearly never picked up a basketball before.
At 32 Kobe is slower, less athletic and can't beat double teams like LeBron can in the half court. You're selling your boi short here :oldlol:
[quote]That's convenient :oldlol:. In your previous post you merely considered them better shooters, but after I threw some numbers, you suddenly find them [i]on a completely different level[/i]? GTFOH.[/quote]
How is that convenient? Again, I've been on record saying those guys were better shooters - much/clearly, or on another level is irrelevant. We weren't talking about those guys in the first place so I didn't care to quantify them by their %'s.
[quote]Which is complete BS. Their entire advantage stems from a far higher FT%. So according to your logic, if someone's efficiency is a wash from 10-23+ feet on the basketball court, the one with the higher FT% should be considered the "clearly" or "easily" better shooter? So current Kobe is easily a better shooter than '98 MJ? '03 T-Mac? [/quote]
BS to you. But to most of us in reality, it's pretty much dead-on. You're just delusional, kiddo. Do you have Jordan and TMACs percentages from mid-to-longrange? The guys you listed (KD, CP3, Dirk and Nash) are all great all-around shooters. Not sure why '98 MJ and Tmac in 2003 is relevant when I don't have numbers to back my opinion.
[quote]I'm not buying your BS. You're just sticking to this so you wouldn't end up looking like a hypocrite for your stance on Kobe-LeBron. Just admit it you were way off about them, man. Because your stupid FT% logic doesn't really carryover to other comparisons, or even the LeBron-Kobe comparison.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to buy anything I say. Why should I take someone who believes LeBron has similar and/or equal mileage to Kobe, seriously?
Right, I look like a hypocrite. Again, where did I retract my post saying Kobe is easily better than LeBron as a shooter? Have I overstated he was on another level? Yeah...but again, I've admitted this. You're just an f'ing nutjob is all.
Even if Lebron doesn't attack defenses as well as Kobe (lol) it's not like every team has already adjusted to this "new" Lebron and now force him to beat them off the dribble the way they do with Kobe. It's a joke to act like their jumpers get defended equally.
[QUOTE=Heavincent]Another dunk from Kobe: [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srjl0UXQTYs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srjl0UXQTYs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/URL][/QUOTE]
LOL KOBE DOESNT LIKE LOSING.
Guy is just a natural winner.
[QUOTE=ieballer3]what's really funny is trying to cherry pick stats to compare lebron's best shooting season ever to kobe's worst. even so, considering clutchness, free throws and defense played on each, kobe easily comes out on top. it's so obvious that if you were to take a poll of all the nba players in the league, i bet 99% (probably 100%) would vote for kobe clearly being the better shooter. yet here you are trying to argue what's obvious to anyone that plays the game. at least we all know where you two lebron homers [B]stan[/B]d, or maybe i should say sit.[/QUOTE]
Indian guy should really be called Indian Kid.
[QUOTE=catch24]At 32 Kobe is slower, less athletic and can't beat double teams like LeBron can in the half court.[/quote]
You're letting LeBron's age cloud reality. What you described above isn't really happening on the basketball court. LeBron, especially in his off-the-dribble game, is unrecognizable from the player he once was. Nobody in the league is playing him for the drive first. Nobody. Watch any game-highlights from this season on YT, and try to find me 3-5 clips where LeBron's man isn't tightly guarding him.
[quote]How is that convenient? Again, I've been on record saying those guys were better shooters - much/clearly, or on another level is irrelevant.[/quote]
Hardly irrelevant when you have been so vehement in describing Kobe's supposed superiority to LeBron throughout this thread, yet so tame in announcing other shooters'(who by your logic are MUCH better) superiority to Kobe. Something didn't add up, yet as soon as I posted some numbers, you went back to your old hyperbola. All for the sake of not looking like a hypocrite.
[quote]You're just delusional, kiddo.[/quote]
Nah, that would be the person who said Kobe's [i]on a different level than LeBron[/i] as a shooter when their numbers are a wash.
[quote]Do you have Jordan and TMACs percentages from mid-to-longrange?[/quote]
I picked '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac because despite managing to be GREAT shooters, their FT% hung around mid to high 70's those seasons. Now, I don't have their percentages from 10-23 feet, but judging by their style of play and FG% for those seasons, doesn't take a genius to surmise their numbers likely mirrored another similar player in Kobe. So, who's the better shooter among '98 MJ, '03 T-Mac and 07-11 Kobe? Hard to pick, right? But if we go by your ****ed up logic, one would just look at Kobe's much better FT% and deem him the far/clearly/easily better shooter. Would you agree with that conclusion? You better, because that's your entire argument in Kobe being 'easily' better than LeBron.
[quote]Again, where did I retract my post saying Kobe is easily better than LeBron as a shooter?[/quote]
That's the problem, you should. The numbers simply DO NOT support your claim of Kobe being "easily" better than 10-11 LeBron, all because of FT%. By your logic, players like Durant and CP3 are easily >>>> Kobe too, yet you'd never agree to that if you didn't have to maintain a front about your BS Kobe>>>>>>LeBron argument to begin with.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]
By your logic, players like Durant and CP3 are easily >>>> Kobe too, yet you'd never agree to that if you didn't have to maintain a front about your BS Kobe>>>>>>LeBron argument to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I dont get this part.. Durant is one of the most incredible shooters to ever step onto a basketball court. His game is 99% shooting and he's pinpoint with it. Quick release. Amazing length. Great accuracy. Whats your point? He is a signifigantly better shooter than Kobe[although Kobe beats him in about every other facet there is offensively].
And Chris Paul doesn't score on near the same volume nor does he command the same defensive attention for his shooting[because he is a bigger threat to playmake/penetrate]as compared to Kobe. So that comparison doesn't make sense.
[quote]Hardly irrelevant when you have been so vehement in describing Kobe's supposed superiority to LeBron throughout this thread, yet so tame in announcing other shooters'(who by your logic are MUCH better) superiority to Kobe. Something didn't add up, yet as soon as I posted some numbers, you went back to your old hyperbola. All for the sake of not looking like a hypocrite.[/quote]
Nice. Taking little snippets of my post and completely taken them out of context. How typical of you.
First of all, they're [I]irrelevant[/I] because we are discussing LeBron and Kobe, not Durant, CP3 , Nash or Dirk. I never got into specifics with them - and why should I? lol at thinking I should have clarified who's "clearly better" and on "another level". Again, they have nothing to do with the debate. But yes, they're all superior all-around shooters--and yes, you have to take into account volume for some (or clearly better -- just for you, kid).
[quote]Nah, that would be the person who said Kobe's [i]on a different level than LeBron[/i] as a shooter when their numbers are a wash.[/quote]
Still bringing up garbage I addressed...
Yes, I was exaggerating. Deal with it.
[quote]I picked '98 MJ and '03 T-Mac because despite managing to be GREAT shooters, their FT% hung around mid to high 70's those seasons. Now, I don't have their percentages from 10-23 feet, but judging by their style of play and FG% for those seasons, doesn't take a genius to surmise their numbers likely mirrored another similar player in Kobe. So, who's the better shooter among '98 MJ, '03 T-Mac and 07-11 Kobe? Hard to pick, right? But if we go by your ****ed up logic, one would just look at Kobe's much better FT% and deem him the far/clearly/easily better shooter. Would you agree with that conclusion? You better, because that's your entire argument in Kobe being 'easily' better than LeBron.[/quote]
Interesting. Well I think Dantley and Gervin, in their primes, were better from midrange than pre-90's Jordan. Without the evidence (numbers); however, I really can't back up my opinion now, can I? Whether it takes a genius or not to summarize their game play and claim they were better isn't something I'm interested in. I go by reality; the numbers and evidence point to Kobe being an all-around better shooter than LeBron.
Try again.
IndianGuy - If you concede LeBron, at 26, has the same mileage as Kobe does at 32 then this debate is over.
Simple answer: Yes or no?
[QUOTE=catch24]Whether it takes a genius or not to summarize their game play and claim they were better isn't something I'm interested in.[/quote]
Let's just assume for argument's sake that their numbers from 10-23 feet are similar(which they likely were), now, knowing what you do about MJ and T-Mac, would you still deem Kobe a much better shooter than those 2 just because of FT%? Clearly, you wouldn't.
[quote]and evidence point to Kobe being an all-around better shooter than LeBron.[/QUOTE]
There you go! Finally got you to the point where you no longer used [i]on a different level[/i] or [i]easily better[/i] or any of that hyperbolic garbage. This I can live with. It's definitely arguable whether 10-11 Kobe is a better shooter than 10-11 LeBron, but I certainly wouldn't hold it against someone if they thought he was slightly better, as long as they admitted Heat-LeBron matches up fairly well against all versions of Kobe.
[quote]IndianGuy - If you concede LeBron, at 26, has the same mileage as Kobe does at 32 then this debate is over.[/quote]
Where's this mileage talk even coming from? I sure as hell didn't talk about it. The reason I believe LeBron and Kobe are equivalent at breaking down a defense today is because of LeBron's weight - he simply got too damn big, and it completely took away his old explosiveness. He just struggles to beat players off the dribble now. That's the reason why, aside from being a solid shooter now, he's guarded no differently than Kobe - NOBODY fears LeBron blowing past them, because he can't.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Let's just assume for argument's sake that their numbers from 10-23 feet are similar(which they likely were), now, knowing what you do about MJ and T-Mac, would you still deem Kobe a much better shooter than those 2 just because of FT%? Clearly, you wouldn't.
There you go! Finally got you to the point where you no longer used [i]on a different level[/i] or [i]easily better[/i] or any of that hyperbolic garbage. This I can live with. It's definitely arguable whether 10-11 Kobe is a better shooter than 10-11 LeBron, but I certainly wouldn't hold it against someone if they thought he was slightly better, as long as they admitted Heat-LeBron matches up fairly well against all versions of Kobe.
Where's this mileage talk even coming from? I sure as hell didn't talk about it. The reason I believe LeBron and Kobe are equivalent at breaking down a defense today is because of LeBron's weight - he simply got too damn big, and it completely took away his old explosiveness. He just struggles to beat players off the dribble now. That's the reason why, aside from being a solid shooter now, [B]he's guarded no differently than Kobe[/B] - NOBODY fears LeBron blowing past them, because he can't.[/QUOTE]
This is simply not true. Kobe is defended much differently than Lebron. Are you serious?