Dirk is above KG in the all-time list

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]You are completely changing the argument....which is standard.

Has Kobe not had repeated failures in the playoffs? We've been over them all. And they can be directly related to his play. Dirk? Not so much. You have the Warriors series....but really that is the only true failure for Dirk's career.

Kobe has plenty. You call him a 5 time champion and ignore circumstances...again...standard.

This is about scoring in the playoffs. That is what i've been talking about. I don't see any scoring/offensive measures that lead to the conclusion that Kobe is in a different league than Dirk as a scorer.

Dirk beats him across the board in everything if you compare their entire playoff careers. We don't do that though because kobe deserves special treatment....again..standard.

So what do we find when we go 10 best vs 10 best? That while Kobe scores 2 more ppg, he needed 2 to 3 more shots per game to get that. He needed 3 to 4 more possessions when you factor in his higher turnover rate and much worse ft shooting. So Dirk scores 2 less ppg while beating Kobe solidly in overall efficiency and all offensive ratings such as otrg and offensive win shares. Dirk also beats Kobe all time in playoff PER....not that big of a deal, but yet another measure that favors dirk.

So I'm really not sure what ring count has to do with this...or the fact that you are still so lost that you think dirk was ever a choker. Or the fact that you ignore Kobe's spotty at best history in the playoffs of laying down in elimination games and coming up extremely small in the finals for a player of his stature. Putting forth one of the worst finals performances by a star player ever.

But again, you have changed the argument to a ring count...as usual...because you lost.

Nothing supports Kobe being a better playoffs scorer than Dirk....even when you chop off 29% of Kobe's playoff career....LOL[/QUOTE]

Scorer has always meant scoring points and has never meant high percentages . :confusedshrug: Your beef is with the common vernacular used in the sport.

Who is considered the greatest scorer in playoff history?

Michael Jordan, Raja Bell or Dwight Howard?

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Scorer has always meant scoring points and has never meant high percentages . :confusedshrug: Your beef is with the common vernacular used in the sport.

Who is considered the greatest scorer in playoff history?

Michael Jordan, Raja Bell or Dwight Howard?[/QUOTE]

Its actually both. Its about how many points your score and at what efficiency you score them. Your problem is that you are just too stubborn to admit both matter.

And if they don't? Fine.....

Dirk 25.9 ppg in the playoffs
Kobe 25.4 ppg in the playoffs

You just said...."its about scoring points"

Well, Dirk scores more points per game in the playoffs. Just a fact. So you readily admit that Dirk is the better playoff scorer then...right?

But you won't, there will be some bs about chopping years off Kobe's career or how efficiency doesn't matter...or shaq stole shots...even though kobe was still getting up more shots than dirk ever was while he played with shaq.

kobe is the only player that needs to 30% of his career chopped off to win an argument. and even if we chop it off. he's still not any better than dirk. thats the sad thing.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Its actually both. Its about how many points your score and at what efficiency you score them. Your problem is that you are just too stubborn to admit both matter.

And if they don't? Fine.....

Dirk 25.9 ppg in the playoffs
Kobe 25.4 ppg in the playoffs

You just said...."its about scoring points"

Well, Dirk scores more points per game in the playoffs. Just a fact. So you readily admit that Dirk is the better playoff scorer then...right?

But you won't, there will be some bs about chopping years off Kobe's career or how efficiency doesn't matter...or shaq stole shots...even though kobe was still getting up more shots than dirk ever was while he played with shaq.

kobe is the only player that needs to 30% of his career chopped off to win an argument. and even if we chop it off. he's still not any better than dirk. thats the sad thing.[/QUOTE]

From 18-20

Dirk's playoff average 0.0 ppg over 0 games
Kobe's playoff average 8.5 ppg over 20 games


From 20-22

Dirk's playoff average 0.0 ppg over 0 games
Kobe's playoff average 20.5 ppg over 30 games

From 22-32

Dirk's playoff average = 25.9 ppg over 124 games
Kobe's playoff average= 28.6 ppg over 158 games

:bowdown: to the amazing Dirk :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]From 18-20

Dirk's playoff average 0.0 ppg over 0 games
Kobe's playoff average 8.5 ppg over 20 games


From 20-22

Dirk's playoff average 0.0 ppg over 0 games
Kobe's playoff average 20.5 ppg over 30 games

From 22-32

Dirk's playoff average = 25.9 ppg over 124 games
Kobe's playoff average= 28.6 ppg over 158 games

:bowdown: to the amazing Dirk :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

i get 28.4 ppg over that time. removing 4 years for kobe and 0 for dirk.

i think its only fair to at least remove one year for dirk. which brings his total just over 26 ppg.

and then of course you ignore the efficiency measures. in that time, kobe has had one playoff run over 57.7% TS....Dirk averaged right at 58.5% TS over his 10 years. Dirk had 7 playoff runs over over Kobe's highest efficiency mark.

So again, Kobe is scoring slightly over 2 ppg more after chopping off 30% of his playoff career. And he loses out to dirk in every efficiency category in addition to offensive rating and offensive win shares.

lol...the amazing kobe.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]i get 28.4 ppg over that time. removing 4 years for kobe and 0 for dirk.

i think its only fair to at least remove one year for dirk. which brings his total just over 26 ppg.

and then of course you ignore the efficiency measures. in that time, kobe has had one playoff run over 57.7% TS....Dirk averaged right at 58.5% TS over his 10 years. Dirk had 7 playoff runs over over Kobe's highest efficiency mark.

So again, Kobe is scoring slightly over 2 ppg more after chopping off 30% of his playoff career. And he loses out to dirk in every efficiency category in addition to offensive rating and offensive win shares.

lol...the amazing kobe.[/QUOTE]


The difference is your just playing with numbers because you are butthurt at the results. I'm trying to make a reasonable conclusion from them. If its above your comprehension why a teenage NBAer playing 17 mins a game will drag down career per game numbers and would need to be accounted for then I genuinely feel sorry for you.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]The difference is your just playing with numbers because you are butthurt at the results. I'm trying to make a reasonable conclusion from them. If its above your comprehension why a teenage NBAer playing 17 mins a game will drag down career per game numbers and would need to be accounted for then I genuinely feel sorry for you.[/QUOTE]

what are you talking about? I removed Kobe's first four years already.

the conclusion is simple. kobe scores slightly over 2ppg more on worse overall efficiency. that is the conclusion.

it takes kobe anywhere from 3 to 4 more possessions to score those extra points.

every measure favors dirk outside of those 2 ppg over the 10 year period you want to compare.

so basically you think that efficiency should not be counted at all in scoring. if that is your stance...fine. just know what you are saying.....

Peak:
Kobe--35.4 PPG/56% TS
Dork--26.6 PPG/59% TS

2nd-best Peak
Kobe--32 PPG/58% TS
Dork-- 26 PPG/58% TS

30+ PPG seasons
Kobe--3
Dork--0

28+ PPG seasons
Kobe--6
Dork--0

40+ point games
Kobe--110
Dork--20

50+ point games
Kobe--25
Dork--2

60+ point games
Kobe--5
Dork--0

Career High--
Kobe--81
Dork--50
Damn. Dork getting shitted on.

Post-season:
29 PPG+--
Kobe--6
Dork--0

30+ PPG+
Kobe--4
Dork--0

30+ point games-
Kobe--80
Dork--44

lol. Kobe is easily better. Top 5 scorer ever. :bowdown:

Dork ain't even top 10. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]what are you talking about? I removed Kobe's first four years already.

the conclusion is simple. kobe scores slightly over 2ppg more on worse overall efficiency. that is the conclusion.

it takes kobe anywhere from 3 to 4 more possessions to score those extra points.

every measure favors dirk outside of those 2 ppg over the 10 year period you want to compare.

so basically you think that efficiency should not be counted at all in scoring. if that is your stance...fine. just know what you are saying.....[/QUOTE]

That's not my stance. That's the stance of NBA history. I love these stat guys with their heads in the sand. Google Iverson and "greatest scorer" some time to welcome yourself back to Earth.

Yeah, Kobe averaging not even 24 against an old and hobbling JKidd was almost as impressive as his negative assists-to-turnovers ratio.

[IMG]https://i.minus.com/iQ6ou02shkXUZ.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]That's not my stance. That's the stance of NBA history. I love these stat guys with their heads in the sand. Google Iverson and "greatest scorer" some time to welcome yourself back to Earth.[/QUOTE]

You are confusing "greatest" with "explosive"

Kobe is definitely a more "explosive" scorer than Dirk in the playoffs. He's just not any better overall. its the law of averages. his averages are there for a reason. you can't just focus on the 35 point games and ignore all the other games that have driven his average down. sorry.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]You are confusing "greatest" with "explosive"

Kobe is definitely a more "explosive" scorer than Dirk in the playoffs. He's just not any better overall. its the law of averages. his averages are there for a reason. you can't just focus on the 35 point games and ignore all the other games that have driven his average down. sorry.[/QUOTE]

I already told you the reason. He started getting playoff stats in his teens. He was playing 17 mins a game for two years. Its not rocket science. Dirk only started collecting playoff stats when he was 22. Among the top 6 ppg seasons in the playoffs among the two Kobe has not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 but all 6 of them.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Among the top 6 ppg seasons in the playoffs among the two Kobe has not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 but all 6 of them.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:

More ether. Just shitting all over that moron.

:roll:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]I already told you the reason. He started getting playoff stats in his teens. He was playing 17 mins a game for two years. Its not rocket science. Dirk only started collecting playoff stats when he was 22. Among the top 6 ppg seasons in the playoffs among the two Kobe has not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 but all 6 of them.[/QUOTE]

Kobe's teen years aren't even being counted. What are you talking about? We chopped off 30% of Kobe's playoff career to appease you and your fellow stans.

And the results were simple. Kobe edges Dirk on roughly 2 ppg over that 10 year period. Kobe needed somewhere around 3 to 4 more possessions to score those extra 2 points. Dirk beats kobe in every efficiency category and offensive rating and offensive win shares.

So I don't see how over that period (that you wanted to use) that you can claim Kobe is on another level as a scorer. Again, averages are averages for a reason. And its very easy to see why Kobe averaged a little over 2 more points per game during that time. He took more shots and used up more possessions.

Sorry. Scoring 2 more ppg than another player on worse efficiency across the board over a decade does not make one player on another level...that is absurd. Especially in this case where both players are great at the end of games and have been the main option or a main option their entire careers. Absolutely an apples to apples comparison. Same conference. Same era.

And the stats are nearly identical.

Kobe is the better scorer in the PS and RS season. It's not a big gap. I don't agree with the guy who said he's in "another universe" at all because Dirk is a top 10 scorer [I]ever[/I], but it's pretty clear imo that Bryant is better, even if it is by a small degree.

I think that's fair.

/thread

So lets see how this plays:

Iverson vs Kobe...

Who is the better playoff scorer? How about T-Mac vs Kobe?