Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson - Complete Career Head-to-Head Stats

[B][COLOR="Green"]1979-80 to 1985-86 Bird > Magic[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]1986-87 to 1991-92 Magic > Bird[/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE=dankok8]Just because I love Magic doesn't mean I have to hate or underrate Bird.[/QUOTE]

Well, just so you know, even Bill Simmons, who is unabashedly a CELTIC HOMER and BIRD LOVER, (and yes, a complete idiot) has Magic ranked higher than Larry.

That should really tell you something...

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B][COLOR="Green"]1979-80 to 1985-86 Bird > Magic[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]1986-87 to 1991-92 Magic > Bird[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

Not if you include post-season play. Then it swings dramatically into Magic's favor, even in the '80 to '86 seasons...

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Incidently, for the clowns who somehow believe that Magic was not a capable scorer...

how about this stretch from his 86-87 season...

31
34
25
17 (oh wait...35 minutes, 9 FGAs, and 18 assists)
34
38
46
30
28
4 (29 minutes, 4 FGAs, 18 assists, in a 140-104 win)
32
26
20
25
38
26
31
26
42
19
29
25

Take away those two games in which he obviously didn't even try...

and in those 20 games...

30.5 ppg, (and BTW, he averaged 11 apg in those 20 games, as well.)[/QUOTE]

86-87 Magic was MILES BETTER as a half-court scorer than young Magic though. We know 87-90 Magic could light it up almost on Bird level. We're talking about 80-86 Magic here in this thread.

Plus there is rebounding and defense where Bird has a major edge and you seem to completely disregard it.

[QUOTE=dankok8]86-87 Magic was MILES BETTER as a half-court scorer than young Magic though. We know 87-90 Magic could light it up almost on Bird level. We're talking about 80-86 Magic here in this thread.

Plus there is rebounding and defense where Bird has a major edge and you seem to completely disregard it.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm....

The OP says Bird vs Magic...COMPLETE H2H's.

And again, factor in their post-season play...and the scorecard changes dramatically...

Bird in '81 (and barely), '84 (again, Magic was one blown Worthy pass away from winning yet another ring), and a solid "win" in '86.

The rest of their careers?

Magic in '80, '82, '83, '85, '87, '88, '89, '90, and '91...and nearly all of them were pretty solid "wins."

And we KNOW that a YOUNG Magic was capable of 40+ point games, as well. Hell, he not only had a Finals game of 42, and in his ROOKIE season, but even coming back from an injury in '81 (and rusty...as the playoffs would prove)...games of 41 and 33...and earlier in that very limited same season...three more of 30+.

Instead of shot-jacking and ball-hogging, though, Magic concentrated on making his team's better. He certainly proved he could score 30 ppg had he been tasked to do so.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Well, just so you know, even Bill Simmons, who is unabashedly a CELTIC HOMER and BIRD LOVER, (and yes, a complete idiot) has Magic ranked higher than Larry.

That should really tell you something...[/QUOTE]

Magic and Bird race was proclaimed by them, themselves by rings and the media gobbled that up. So when Bird evened up the race it was pretty much even. However, once the Celtics got the second pick in 86 Peter Vescey was sure that Bird had won the battle and coined Larry Bird, "Larry Legend." When Magic was ahead, the whole time before '86 nobody said anything. Then Len Bias died and Magic won again the next year with a team that made all teams before or after look selfish. It was the best team work any team ever exhibited and it wasn't close. The crowning of Magic never happened even when he went three up on Bird (college as well) that I could recall.

The media didn't want to crown Magic. I just don't think Jordan would have been crowned after his second ring if Bird had won the Magic battle. There were other things in play that I don't think people would understand now.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Magic and Bird race was proclaimed by them, themselves by rings and the media gobbled that up. So when Bird evened up the race it was pretty much even. However, once the Celtics got the second pick in 86 Peter Vescey was sure that Bird had won the battle and coined Larry Bird, "Larry Legend." When Magic was ahead, the whole time before '86 nobody said anything. Then Len Bias died and Magic won again the next year with a team that made all teams before or after look selfish. It was the best team work any team ever exhibited and it wasn't close. The crowning of Magic never happened even when he went three up on Bird (college as well) that I could recall.

The media didn't want to crown Magic. I just don't think Jordan would have been crowned after his second ring if Bird had won the Magic battle. There were other things in play that I don't think people would understand now.[/QUOTE]

I vividly recall the almost daily articles which had the two almost evenly divided in the early 80's. Again, Magic's injury in '81, and his coach's subsequent firing really hurt him in the public perception. But, I think the consensus was that the two were basically even, until Bird had his "three-peat" MVPs.

After that, even Bird, himself, conceded that Magic was the better player. And the Bird fans love to mention his injuries, but it was clearly evident, even in the 87-88, which was arguably Bird's greatest season, that Magic was already ranked ahead of him. And then when Bird folded his tent against the Pistons in the playoffs, and Magic dominated that same Piston team in the Finals...well, Bird was a dot in Magic's rear-view mirror from that point on.

If anything...it was CLOSE between '80 and '86, and after that, a runaway for Magic.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Not if you include post-season play. Then it swings dramatically into Magic's favor, even in the '80 to '86 seasons...[/QUOTE]

[B]Not When Kareem is the Best Player & Captain in the Lakers 79-85.

Lets Not Forget McHale Was a Sixthman 80-85.[/B]

[QUOTE=dankok8]86-87 Magic was MILES BETTER as a half-court scorer than young Magic though. We know 87-90 Magic could light it up almost on Bird level. We're talking about 80-86 Magic here in this thread.

Plus there is rebounding and defense where Bird has a major edge and you seem to completely disregard it.[/QUOTE]

Rebounding was just a matter of where they were on the court. Magic was a better offensive rebounder the first four years. Bird was the better defensive rebounder because PF's back then stayed around the basket and few were skilled scorers.

Lets give Bird defense*. Magic's edge on control of the game equaled that out.

Magic was the better passer. Was more efficient. And was more consistent.


[SIZE="1"][I]*Bird got 2nd team all defense one year over Cedric Maxwell who guarded his man very well, and then in '84 Bird took McHales spot on the second team - remind you McHale guarded Bird's counterpart very well as did Maxwell before him. Not unlike some of Kobe's horrific choices to all defensive teams decades later, Bird had them and it was disrespectful to Maxwell and McHale.[/I][/SIZE]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Not When Kareem is the Best Player & Captain in the Lakers 79-85.

Lets Not Forget McHale Was a Sixthman 80-85.[/B][/QUOTE]

Kareem was arguably LA's best player in '80 (and, again, when he was out in game six of the Finals, Magic put up a 42-15-7 game.)

He was their best player in '81, when Magic missed 45 games.

But, from that point on, it was ALL Magic. And, again, take a look at their career games in which they played without the other. Magic had a FAR better record without Kareem, than the other way around.

And while Kareem was still an exceptional offensive player from '82-'86 (and of course, much of it was because of MAGIC BTW), we KNOW that Magic was certainly capable of having scored much more in those seasons.

And, don't forget, the REAL LEADER of those '80's Lakers teams was MAGIC. From DAY ONE.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]However, once the Celtics got the second pick in 86 Peter Vescey was sure that Bird had won the battle and coined Larry Bird, "Larry Legend." [/QUOTE]

That was as late as 1986? That surprises me.

Supposedly, Vescey also came up with Air Jordan.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Kareem was arguably LA's best player in '80 (and, again, when he was out in game six of the Finals, Magic put up a 42-15-7 game.)

He was their best player in '81, when Magic missed 45 games.

But, from that point on, it was [B][U]ALL Magic[/U][/B] :no: . And, again, take a look at their career games in which they played without the other. Magic had a FAR better record without Kareem, than the other way around.

And while Kareem was still an exceptional offensive player from '82-'86 (and of course, much of it was because of MAGIC BTW), we KNOW that Magic was certainly capable of having scored much more in those seasons.

And, don't forget, the REAL LEADER of those '80's Lakers teams was MAGIC. From DAY ONE.[/QUOTE]

[B]:no: Why Wasn

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Not When Kareem is the Best Player & Captain in the Lakers 79-85.

Lets Not Forget McHale Was a Sixthman [B]80-85[/B].[/B][/QUOTE]
You haven't been reading the post... Magic was the franchise player on the team (management gave it to him, the coaches and players knew it. Only people in denial couldn't see it). Magic had total control of the team and was the decision maker and coach on the floor. If you think it was Kareem's team you never seen them play. The team missed Magic more than it missed Kareem as seen by their record without one of the players. Magic could fill in for Kareem and add to Kareem's role at the most important of times.

From '81 on McHale was getting 29 minutes per game sharing duties with Maxwell guarding Bird's man. In two of the three finals in the time period you mentioned '85 and '81, two out of the three finals Bird wasn't their best player - one was a sixth man and the other never had a shot at an allstar selection if 10 forwards caught a bad flu.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]That was as late as 1986? That surprises me.

Supposedly, Vescey also came up with Air Jordan.[/QUOTE]

No Vescey was in his prime when Jordan got drafted. His every other day post columns were probably synchronized with Jordan but he was around for awhile before that.

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]:no: Why Wasn