Where would you put LeBron James on the all time list? Honest answers, please.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]Okay, here it is. Everyone can try with different values. Takes 3 minutes to type it to a spreadsheet.

[IMG]http://oi68.tinypic.com/o10u3q.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Those are your actual weighted values?:oldlol: ok makes perfect sense now. You gave the lowest point value to the most widespread belief as far as his ranking. There is no publication/sports entity that has lebron ranked lower than 5th if i remember correctly with most having him 3rd or higher. Would you explain how you came to your points distribution conclusions besides the fact that you perosnally say barely top 10?

[QUOTE=3ball].
[B]The reasons many people think lebron isn't top 15:[/B]


What if lebron stayed in Cleveland his whole career and had zero rings right now

He'd have no real case over Dirk or Malone, and he'd be behind Bird and Duncan by healthy margin

But even [U]with[/U] the team-hopping - the same lack of rings would've happened if ray and kyrie missed those legacy-saving shots instead of making them

And that's without considering all his flaws.. i.e. no clutch for the majority of his career, crushes teammates, non-goat offenses, hard to build around his ball-dominance skillset, etc, etc

[I]It's a good case that no one can refute because he did indeed team-hop and stack the deck[/I]
.[/QUOTE]



How are you going to forget his defense allowing 4 small forwards to win FMVP on him directly head to head, and leading some,of the worst defenses in the league for a while now.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]Those are your actual weighted values?:oldlol: ok makes perfect sense now. You gave the lowest point value to the most widespread belief as far as his ranking. There is no publication/sports entity that has lebron ranked lower than 5th if i remember correctly with most having him 3rd or higher. Would you explain how you came to your points distribution conclusions besides the fact that you perosnally say barely top 10?[/QUOTE]


More than 50% thinks he is not top 5. Isn't that a valid enough reason as to why there was such an option?

:facepalm

I would like to be fair and and say he's easily number two; all statistics point to it being so. But I just can't when, if given the choice, I would take Tim Duncan's career over Lebron's without a second thought. Numbers schmumbers

[QUOTE='Toine=MVP]You are bad at reading.

47% of people here think he is at least top 5 (as of my latest post). This is based on YOUR poll.[B] I am saying that I think most of the top 10ish folks would have him in the top 7 camp.[/B] But more importantly, there is some rank threshold where there would be significant agreement that he is over (60-65% is pretty significant).[/QUOTE]


But you don't know that. You assume. I for one have him somewhere between 9-12. From this data there is no telling exactly where people put him.

Anyway, we are close to a hundred so i think it was fun but more than enough. Per ISH LeBron is somewhere in the 6-9 range, most likely is number 7.

The end.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]More than 50% thinks he is not top 5. Isn't that a valid enough reason as to why there was such an option?

:facepalm[/QUOTE]
pretty big lack of awareness, this is ish bro. There are more people who hate lebron than are fans here for various reasons. Most of the time it just takes an avy check to see the disposition. The rest of nba fandom? not so much hence the reason he's universally rated higher than your borderline troll options.

edit: not to mention at the moment around 50% have him top 5 and above.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]But you don't know that. You assume. I for one have him somewhere between 9-12. From this data there is no telling exactly where people put him.

Anyway, we are close to a hundred so i think it was fun but more than enough. Per ISH LeBron is somewhere in the 6-9 range, most likely is number 7.

The end.[/QUOTE]

The median is likely better than 7. The median is likely somewhere around 5.5 or so, which is quite apparent by the 47/53 split for Top 5. The average (even adjusted for dummies who put him below Top 10ish, would be a bit lower (6.3 by my last count). So 5-7 is a reasonable estimate with VERY few extrapolations, and 6 being decent estimate. I know arguing over 6 and 7 isn't too important, and I personally don't care if he's ranked 6th or 7th on someone's list at all, but it is disingenuous to represent the results otherwise.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]pretty big lack of awareness, this is ish bro. There are more people who hate lebron than are fans here for various reasons. Most of the time it just takes an avy check to see the disposition. The rest of nba fandom? not so much hence the reason he's universally rated higher than your borderline troll options.

edit: not to mention at the moment around 50% have him top 5 and above.[/QUOTE]

"Around 50%" yes. But less than 50%.

[QUOTE='Toine=MVP]The median is likely better than 7. The median is likely somewhere around 5.5 or so, which is quite apparent by the 47/53 split for Top 5. [/QUOTE]


Wrong. In the top 5 there are 5 spots. Under the top 5 there are more spots. So your reasoning falls apart right here.



[QUOTE]The average (even adjusted for dummies who put him below Top 10ish, would be a bit lower (6.3 by my last count). So 5-7 is a reasonable estimate with VERY few extrapolations, and 6 being decent estimate.[/QUOTE]


Wrong for the same reason.



[QUOTE]I know arguing over 6 and 7 isn't too important, and I personally don't care if he's ranked 6th or 7th on someone's list at all, but it is disingenuous to represent the results otherwise.[/QUOTE]


Yes, it is not that important. Somewhere between 6 and 9. And we can't filter by account.


Now you have to excuse me, but I honestly lost interest.

100% top 5.

If he wins a championship and mvp then second after Jordan.

[B][U]After 100 votes:[/U][/B]
points 724
avg: 7.24



[U]If you exlude the extremes (goat and not top 15)[/U]


votes: 72
points: 488
avg: 6.78



[U]If you exclude top 3 and out of top 10 as well:[/U]

votes: 43
points: 276
avg: 6.42


I say number 7 is a pretty safe bet. You may argue number 6 or number 8.


Take care.

[QUOTE=knicksman]AJ, facts are easy and not all people are simpletons like you. We want to dig deeper. We seek challenges so we analyze whats behind those facts coz thats where the fun is. Coz if facts is all we need, then why bother debating. Everyone will arrive at the same conclusion.[/QUOTE]
Why would anyone debate with you? You have the intelligence of a rodent. You have never even watched a single second of basketball, let alone touch a real one. You're the Simple Jack on this board. Heck, Simple Jack would probably look like Einstein next to you.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I get it.

But sometimes you don't need facts. Who do you think is the best cook? Well... what do you like to eat? You have a right to form an opinion that you don't want to defend. You don't have to defend it. You may... try. :oldlol: Opinions are opinions because they are not facts. So you can't really prove them.

Or to put it in another way. Your opinion is not factual. Something you strongly believe will not make that belief a fact. However... you do think what you think and this IS a fact. When it comes to opinions the only fact you do have is your opinion being yours.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but that's a crappy analogy. As SouBeach said, food is 100% subjective. In basketball you have stats and metrics to prove your case. How do you prove stuff when it comes to tasting food?

Of course, my opinion is not factual. lol

However, these are facts:

There's 2 people in the history of the sport with 4 or more MVP's and 3 or more MVP's.

Most All-NBA First teams (will likely end up with most All-NBA selections overall as well).

First and only player ever to hit 30k/8k/8k.

Top 5 all time in scoring (will likely end up top 2).

Most points ever in the PO's, top 3 in assists, and top 5 in rebounds.

Incredible career averages at all 3 stages (RS, PO's, and Finals).

Greatest G7 performer of all time.

Greatest elimination game performer of all time.

High iq thread

I picked top 10ish

[QUOTE=elementally morale]Wrong. In the top 5 there are 5 spots. Under the top 5 there are more spots. So your reasoning falls apart right here.
[/QUOTE]

Your logic fails miserable here. So slightly less than 50% of voters so far have him outside the top 5. So if a few votes switched over from Top 10ish to Top 5, we'd see the opposite, and more than half of voters would have him top 5.

If that were the case, then we'd have to say the median score is somewhere at least a little better than a flat 5. Maybe it would be 4.8 or 4.9. Because you set up the poll options so sloppily, we have very little information about the voters who don't have him top 5, but if it would only take 2-3 switched votes to make the median 4.9 or so, then it is incredibly safe to assume the current median opinion isn't too much lower than 5. I suggested 5.5, but it might be more like 5.3 or so. But 5.5 works as a conservative estimate.

Saying "wrong" over and over isn't helping you push the disingenuous agenda.

Having said all that, it is pretty clear that LeBron is not a clear cut top 5 player based on the voters here. But that is probably about as strong a comment as we can make. He is probably 6th based on these results. But again the poll was set up so poorly that it is tough to say definitively.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan are the guys I'd take over LeBron without thinking about it at all.

Guys like Oscar, Kobe, David Robinson, Isiah Thomas, Jerry West are all in the same vicinity. I don't put much stock in today's stats because the league is soft. I believe if you give these guys the green light to switch franchises as they see fit, a front office willing to move any and everybody by the trading deadline if these guys aren't happy, a super soft conference to dominate every year and a teflon coating that deflects any blame for anything, these guys would be just or more successful as LeBron has been in their own way.

I don't know where guys like Elgin Baylor, Bob Petite stand. I don't know much about them but they can't be too far behind.

Guys like Wade, Durant, Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Drexler, Dirk, Garnett, Barkley, Pippen, Moses Malone aren't that far behind, if at all.

They can't out-Lebron James Lebron James. They may not lead their team in every category (which has some negative consequences that are rarely spoken about) but I think they'd be just as successful if not more so in their own way if given similar circumstances.[/QUOTE]Among those players you list "ahead" of Lebron:

only 3 have more Mvp awards

only 1, probably 2 have more Finals Mvps(counting if Russell had been eligible his entire career)

only 6 guys have more rings (half of that 6 got privilege of playing with another player from the list)

only 3 have scored more points

only 1 has more assists

only 7 have more rebounds

none have scored more postseason points

1 has more playoff assists

5 have more playoff rebounds

only 2 have ever posted a higher PER

best elimination game player to ever walk the earth

only player to ever lead a series in all statistical categories and it was the finals to boot.

NONE have ever defeated a 70 win team for a title

i just stuck to hard facts and stayed away from the subjective aspects. there's literally a ton of things you can add like triple doubles, or more subjective things like offensive and defensive peak etc. Too much evidence to the contrary of what you want to put out there.