Teammate career rankings between Jordan and Lebron -- The Reality

[QUOTE=Sarcastic;14112599]Way to obfuscate with a bunch of nonsense. You refuted absolutely nothing that I said.

Just have a look at the numbers.
[B]92 Pippen[/B] - 21/8/7 on .555 TS and 21.5 PER [B]93 Pippen[/B] - 19/8/6 on .510 TS and 19.2 PER
[B]92 Grant[/B] - 14/10/3 on .618 TS and 20.6 PER [B]93 Grant[/B] - 13/10/3 on .534 TS and 17.5 PER

You also conveniently left out Toni Kukoc, who was All Rookie 2nd team, and was saving Pippen with game winners during the regular season and the playoffs.

[video=youtube;uUTfJlezXPY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUTfJlezXPY&ab_channel=HoopsMadness[/video][/QUOTE]

Wow Reggie just taking a dump on pippy poo and the bulls.

Bowing after it and everything.

:roll:

Pure gangster.

[QUOTE=insidious301;14112630]

I only "disregard" Ewing when the claims are that Pippen wasn't on his level

[B]or a #1 himself. [/B]


[/Quote]
^^^ that's a low bar..

anyone can be a 1st option - there's 30 in the league every year...but ELITE first options average nearly 30 in various seasons or series of their career - Pippen couldn't because he was an Iggy-level scorer that barely averaged 20 at his peak

He was never considered on the level of MJ, Barkley, Malone, Hakeem, or Ewing, who could average about 30 and were 1st option Finals guys (top tier of the 90's)

Carry on posting about stats that Nate McMillan beats him at

[QUOTE=3ball;14112749]He was [B]never[/B] considered on the level of MJ, [B]Barkley, Malone[/B], Hakeem, or Ewing, who could average about 30 and were 1st option Finals guys (top tier of the 90's)[/QUOTE]

That is news to all-NBA voters. :lol 1994: Pippen 94 votes, Malone 68, and Barkley even further behind on the second team (Malone at least was close to Pippen when he trailed him in 96', the year before the Bulls-Jazz finals). MJ's 2nd option ahead of his finals' opponent from the previous year's 1st option. Damn. What a stacked team. :bowdown:

[QUOTE=3ball;14112749]^^^ that's a low bar..

anyone can be a 1st option - there's 30 in the league every year...but ELITE first options average nearly 30 in various seasons or series of their career - Pippen couldn't because he was an Iggy-level scorer that barely averaged 20 at his peak[/QUOTE]

So based on the data, you agree that Ewing was a weak #1. And the "low bar" Pippen allegedly had was higher than Ewing's? That's a weird way to cope with results, but fair enough. Now you can add him to your list in that thread you made. Ultimately the [U]real[/U] and [U]only[/U] logical conclusion is Pippen >.

[QUOTE=insidious301;14112757]So based on the data, you agree that Ewing was a weak #1. And the "low bar" Pippen allegedly had was higher than Ewing's? That's a weird way to cope with results, but fair enough. Now you can add him to your list in that thread you made. Ultimately the [U]real[/U] and [U]only[/U] logical conclusion is Pippen >.[/QUOTE]

He still hasn't explained why MJ lost three years in a row to a team whose best player peaked at 23 PPG 6-7 years prior to owning MJ on a 37-45 win team. When Detroit was a contender (1987-1991), Isiah was 18.8 PPG. MJ was scoring up to twice that and taking L's in the first round.

[QUOTE=insidious301;14112757]So based on the data, you agree that Ewing was a weak #1. And the "low bar" Pippen allegedly had was higher than Ewing's? That's a weird way to cope with results, but fair enough. Now you can add him to your list in that thread you made. Ultimately the [U]real[/U] and [U]only[/U] logical conclusion is Pippen >.[/QUOTE]
Pippen peaked at 22 ppg... Ewing at 29

with better efficiency across the board

Ewing was an elite scorer, which was required to be a 1st option Finals guy (top caliber)... All the top players of the 90's were 1st option Finals guys, aka MJ, Hakeem, Malone, Ewing, Shaq, Barkley, Drexler, Robinson..

Pippen was never considered on this level and was considered a 2nd option, which has become synonymous with "Pippen"

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14112685]They have nothing. It is a joke, but amusing to observe.

We are hearing--from guys who talk scoring 24/7--Grant was a better scorer than Starks. :roll: This guy (IMKobe, 3ball's own beta poodle) is as ignorant as he is dishonest. Youtube.com, son. Watch some games if you are going to jackoff to MJ every day. You will enjoy. He was really good.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, BPM likes Pippen over 90's-era Hakeem. It likes Pippen over almost every big man. For example: 90-98 Pippen 5.7 bpm vs 90's Shaq 6.0 bpm. BPM thinks Pippen was as good as prime Shaq. Garbage argument for garbage stat. Basically, almost all metrics are in agreement that on Pippen was at best a borderline top-50 player for his career. The raw numbers and advanced stats support this as well. Even if you use his so-called "prime" years, his rankings in PER, OBPM, and WS/48 would be 61, 49, and 51 respectively. Only BPM thinks he's a career top-50 player, and I've already explained this is a side-effect how BPM credits defensive stars (high steals) on good defensive teams, i.e. why Stockton is top 10 player according to BPM. Give you an idea how stupid this metric is, Stockton has a 3.7 DBPM one year. To put that in perspective, Mutombo's best defensive year according to BPM was a 3.0. Ben Wallace's best year was a 3.5. [B]That's right... BPM thinks John Stockton was a better peak defender than two guys who won DPOY eight times between them!!![/B] :oldlol: What's crazy about it is that Mutombo's best defensive season would only be Stockton's fourth best. So BPM thinks Stockton was not just a little bit better than Mutumbo,[I] but perennially better.[/I]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14112804]He still hasn't explained why MJ lost three years in a row to a team whose best player peaked at 23 PPG 6-7 years prior to owning MJ on a 37-45 win team. When Detroit was a contender (1987-1991), Isiah was 18.8 PPG. MJ was scoring up to twice that and taking L's in the first round.[/QUOTE]

Another error on his part. Ouch. Gooseman, what do you think 3ball meant here? I've been asking you pertinent questions for a while now, but you seem a little timid to reply. Get out of your safe space dude.

[QUOTE=3ball;14112805]Pippen peaked at 22 ppg... Ewing at 29

with better efficiency across the board.

Pippen was never considered on this level and was considered a 2nd option, which has become synonymous with "Pippen"[/QUOTE]

Prime Pippen had more impact and therefor was better. Higher ortg-bpm-obpm-apm-rapm-vorp-ws-ws48-ortg. Many of those stats are in the OP too which you've conceded were great measures. So again, the only conclusion we can draw from that is Pippen being better.

[QUOTE=insidious301;14112834]Prime Pippen had more impact and therefor was better. Higher ortg-bpm-obpm-apm-rapm-vorp-ws-ws48-ortg. Many of those stats are in the OP too which you've conceded were great measures. So again, the only conclusion we draw from that then is Pippen being better.[/QUOTE]

The graphics speak for themselves. The two players usually aren't even close.

[IMG]https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Ewing-player-card.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Pippen-GOAT-card.png[/IMG]

Pippen is far ahead in 4 of 5 of these stats. In the one Ewing is ahead, he is barely ahead--108th all-time versus 110th for Pippen.

[QUOTE=insidious301;14112834]Another error on his part. Ouch. Gooseman, what do you think 3ball meant here? I've been asking you pertinent questions for a while now, but you seem a little timid to reply. Come out of your safe space dude.



Prime Pippen had more impact and therefor was better. Higher ortg-bpm-pbpm-apm-rapm-vorp-ws-ws48-ortg. Many of those stats are in the OP too which you've conceded were great measures. So again, the only conclusion we draw from that then is Pippen being better.[/QUOTE]

Who cares about Ewing. Address the issue of how BPM has Pippen over 90's Hakeem and on par with Shaq or how BPM thinks Stockton was a better peak defender than Mutumbo and Ben Ben Wallace. I'm waiting.

[QUOTE=Soundwave;14112856]Who cares about Ewing. Address the issue of how BPM[/QUOTE]

You are the guy who made a thread using BPM and some of these other stats. :roll: Shamelessly backpedaled after it got inconvenient. You are a dishonest MJ stain but at least play out your posts next time to avoid such embarrassment.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14112866]You are the guy who made a thread using BPM and some of these other stats. :roll: Shamelessly backpedaled after it got inconvenient. You are a dishonest MJ stain but at least play out your posts next time to avoid such embarrassment.[/QUOTE]

I put BPM in there to show you how it does not correlate at all with the other metrics, i.e. that it is a garbage stat. I explained it in the OP. Read it again.

[QUOTE=insidious301;14112834]


Prime Pippen had more impact and therefor was better.


.[/QUOTE]

Not based on the facts - Pippen wasn't good enough to be a 1st option like Ewing, and got destroyed by Ewing in 94'... 94' Ewing ascended to the top tier as a 1st option Finals guy, and Pippen descended to an ordinary, early round loser with bad efficiency

But it was no surprise to anyone - Ewing was [U]expected[/U] to wipe the floor with Pippen... And did.. it would've been a sweep if Kukoc hadn't saved them from 0-3 deficit

They have nothing. They cherry pick data, then when an honest comparison of the same data is done, they flip flop. They say we can't use accolades. We can't use all-time rankings. We can't use what people thought at the time. We just have to take the word of the most dishonest fan base in sports for everything.

One thing this is revealing: MJ stains cannot say a single word of criticism of ANY 90's star, except Pippen. They present every other 90's star as flawless. :lol That is because they have no beliefs whatsoever. Just one agenda and every word they write flows from that. The most disgusting fan base by far.

[QUOTE=goozeman;14112856]Who cares about Ewing. Address the issue of how BPM has Pippen over 90's Hakeem and on par with Shaq or how BPM thinks Stockton was a better peak defender than Mutumbo and Ben Ben Wallace. I'm waiting.[/QUOTE]

Ewing is related to your topic and here is why. He had less impact than Pippen who is "weak help" in your opinion. If that's the case then Jordan's competition was in fact mediocre. Your OP doesn't just list BPM either, so don't make things up. We see metrics ORTG-WS48 there which all favor Prime Pippen > Ewing. Back up your claims.

[QUOTE=goozeman;14112875]I put BPM in there to show you how it does not correlate at all with the other metrics, i.e. that it is a garbage stat. I explained it in the OP. Read it again.[/QUOTE]

That isn't true. You used it here to say LeBron's help > Jordan. Now you're running away from your own words.

[QUOTE=3ball;14112901]Not based on the facts - Pippen wasn't good enough to be a 1st option like Ewing, and got destroyed by Ewing in 94'... 94' Ewing ascended to the top tier as a 1st option Finals guy, and Pippen descended to an ordinary, early round loser with bad efficiency

But it was no surprise to anyone - Ewing was [U]expected[/U] to wipe the floor with Pippen... And did.. it would've been a sweep if Kukoc hadn't saved them from 0-3 deficit[/QUOTE]

No, the facts say Pippen bested Prime Ewing from a 9 year span. When they were at their best too. So the facts and evidence are all on my side, not yours. We also know the same numbers you agreed with OP on are the ones that paint Pippen being more impactful as a player. And thus, unequivocally better.