80's vs 90's

[QUOTE=72-10]Jordan's prime could best be defined as 1988-1992, which inconveniently is evenly divided between the 80s and 90s.[/QUOTE]

[B]Jordans Prime was 1986-1993. Look at the Stats:) and Look at both his Phyisicall and Mental Abilities Combined (along experience).[/B]

[B]Post 1993 = Jordan was not as Athletic or Unstoppable (tyring) to Guard
Pre 1986 = Jordan was not as Experienced and Tough Minded.[/B]

[B]Then again...

1-When did he suffer most to Win? 1980s! :) = Better Era, Better Teams, Better Players, No Handchecking, Real Fauls etc.

2-And, When did he have it easiest? 1990s = Celtics were Aged. Lakers did not have a Kareem at his best and Worthy was not in the level of Pippen (he could not make teamatest better). Obviously the Celtics were WAY past their Prime in the 90s and Pistons finally aged with most of them in their 30s and Yes 30s is the age era where you loose Begin to Loose: [U]Speed, Potence, Agility [/U]etc of [U]things needed [/U]for an [COLOR="Blue"]absolutely PHYSICALLY DEPENDING DEFENSIVE TEAM[/COLOR]:)

Jordan`s only Real Competition was Barkley and Hakeem in the early 90s. While in the 80s he had these 2 (Barkley and Hakeem) plus Magic (and all of his Great Supporting Cast and other Older but Still Legends), plus Bird (and all of his Great Supporting Cast and other Older but Still Legends), plus Dominique Wilkins, plus Isiah (and his Bad Boys), plus Drexler, plus Stockton-Malone-Eaton, plus the Cavs, plus the Bucks and the Knicks (the only one in the East that put up real battes in the early 90s).

1980s = Greatest Era in NBA History. Period. End of Discussion:rockon: :confusedshrug:[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]But if Shaq played withought Penny Hardaway-Grant or Bryant and would have had no Stars and Not the Greatest of Supporting Casts as did Barkley, Hakeem, Drexler, Ewing, Robinson, Wilkins etc for Various Years I dont think he would have elavated the level of his teams as these others did (becase these dudes where more All Around with the exception of Ewing and Wilkins although Wilkins was CLUTCH and Ewing a Major Leader, inspirer!). So then = only Shaq would get 1 MVP out of them 2 (Shaq and Bryant), while these others dudes: if Bird-Magic and Jordan where not there = would have won each of them 2-3 or 4 MVPs for their intiire whole NBA Careers :).

Let me remined you that Dominique Wilkins was way more unstoppable than Bryant, better rebounder and way way! way! more Clutch. He played in a tougher era and conference [U]all by himself [/U] pretty much and had major battles with the Bad Boys, Jordan and Bird .:rockon: :confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]

i really want to respond to this but i dont understand it:confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=97 bulls]here we go again. now, if your talking about popularity by your "most fans " statement then its 90s hands down. the 90s had higher ratings. and as far as hofers on teams, if your talking about careers then the [B]97 bulls have at least 4 players that are going to the hall or are in(jordan, pippen rodman, and parrish)[/B] not to mention kukoc might get in based on his accomplishments. but how many of those teams had players playing at a hof level for every year? i mean, was kareem really playing at a hof level in 87 and 88? i believe without looking that he averaged about 15-17 points and 6-7 rebounds as a third option behind worthy and scott. the celtics had 3 hof but remember mchale was a 6th man for 2 of their 3 championships. the pistons probably will have 3 players with hof careers but while they were winning only two. or how about the sixers, i know they had only 2 and i feel that was the best team in the 80s.now, the bulls had three players in the 96-98 teams all palying at a hof level. so to sum it up all those teams you mention only had about 2 players playn at a hof level.[/QUOTE]

LOL. you gotta be kidding me. Parish was 100 years old in '97 and Rodman will not make the HOF. Those Bulls only had 2 HOFers.

The Lakers and Celtics of 80's were more deeper than the Bulls of the 90's. Any one who argues that doesn't know basketball.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]i really want to respond to this but i dont understand it:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

[B]What I say is that in the 80s the Stars were all seen as Good and More Equal because it was More Competitive, Teams Had Better Supporting Casts, There where Rivalries and More Hall of Famers and Great Players co
mingled and played together.[/B]

[B]In the early 90 = Celtics Aged, Lakers Aged and Pistons Aged so it was Jordan-Pippen`s turn but then again Jordan-Pippen had no Real Great Competition as they did in the 80s: Pistons, Sixers, Bucks, Cavs were done:

Post 1990 it was pretty much just the Knicks for the the Bulls as a true competitor.

What I also say is that All those players I mentioned. Barkley, Hakeem, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Wilkins, Isiah etc in THEIR PRIME would have won more MVPs than Shaq and Bryant because they NOT ONLY DOMINATED THEIR POSITIONS and WHERE ONSTOPPABLE BUT [U]THEY WHERE CLUTCH, THEY WHERE ALL AROUND and they PLAYED WAY TOUGHER!. BACK THEN YOU HAD TO KILL TO WIN BECAUSE IT WAS WAY MORE COMPETITIVE[/U] with the LAKERS-CELTICS AND PISTONS Dominating.

1980s = Best Era in NBA History:bowdown:

Second= Early 90. Composed of 80s Drafted Stars Dominating til 1999

Third Best Era in NBA History is 2000s and 1970s[/B]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]LOL. you gotta be kidding me. Parish was 100 years old in '97 and Rodman will not make the HOF. Those Bulls only had 2 HOFers.

[B]The Lakers and Celtics of 80's were more deeper than the Bulls of the 90's. Any one who argues that doesn't know basketball.[/QUOTE]

Parish in his PRIME was a 17-20 ppg, 10-11 rpg at 55-60% FG player. He would not be guardable by Wellington or Longley

McHale in his PRIME would be unguardable in the Post. Not even Rodman could Stop his 6'10 (longed 7`2 like arms) Post Moves (more Post Moves than Russell has Championships, plus had Witts). Remember tHey had to put in Kareem or another CENTER to Stop his Moves in the 80s Finals and his Career FG% is 56% 17-19 ppg in 31-33 minutes of play only! (while Bird being the Main Focal Scoring Point not McHale)

And Bird in his PRIME could not be stopped from scoring,. shooting, assisting and make his teams better in Any Era. He even schooled Pippen until he was 35 yeard old and there is Proof in youtube. Both Pippen and Grant could not stop him from getting [U]high 30s and Triple DOuble Figures[/U].

The Celtics in their PRIME would only be beatable by the 80s Lakers Show Time.

Except for 1986 Celtics = The Greatest Team Ever![/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Jordans Prime was 1986-1993. Look at the Stats:) and Look at both his Phyisicall and Mental Abilities Combined (along experience).[/B]

[B]Post 1993 = Jordan was not as Athletic or Unstoppable (tyring) to Guard
Pre 1986 = Jordan was not as Experienced and Tough Minded.[/B]

[B]Then again...

1-When did he suffer most to Win? 1980s! :) = Better Era, Better Teams, Better Players, No Handchecking, Real Fauls etc.

2-And, When did he have it easiest? 1990s = Celtics were Aged. Lakers did not have a Kareem at his best and Worthy was not in the level of Pippen (he could not make teamatest better). Obviously the Celtics were WAY past their Prime in the 90s and Pistons finally aged with most of them in their 30s and Yes 30s is the age era where you loose Begin to Loose: [U]Speed, Potence, Agility [/U]etc of [U]things needed [/U]for an [COLOR="Blue"]absolutely PHYSICALLY DEPENDING DEFENSIVE TEAM[/COLOR]:)

Jordan`s only Real Competition was Barkley and Hakeem in the early 90s. While in the 80s he had these 2 (Barkley and Hakeem) plus Magic (and all of his Great Supporting Cast and other Older but Still Legends), plus Bird (and all of his Great Supporting Cast and other Older but Still Legends), plus Dominique Wilkins, plus Isiah (and his Bad Boys), plus Drexler, plus Stockton-Malone-Eaton, plus the Cavs, plus the Bucks and the Knicks (the only one in the East that put up real battes in the early 90s).

1980s = Greatest Era in NBA History. Period. End of Discussion:rockon: :confusedshrug:[/B][/QUOTE]

once again jordan made it to the ecf without a great team. scottie was not ready yet and neither was grant. when they finally won in 91, the pistons werent old, i think their average age was 30-31 for core guys. and as far as the lakers, magic was the reigning backtoback mvp 89-90 before jordan took it back in 91. worthy had his best scoring season, and even though they didnt have kareem they actually got more out of their threesome of sam perkins and mychal thompson and divac. scott wasnt old neither was green i think their core guys average was 29-30. the bulls just finally came of age. however, they didnt have coop. but i dont think that would have turned a 4-1 series for the bulls into a win for the lakers. and as far as the 90s , hey the bulls were just better. you have no basis to prove otherwise.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]once again jordan made it to the ecf without a great team. scottie was not ready yet and neither was grant. when they finally won in 91, the pistons werent old, i think their average age was 30-31 for core guys. and as far as the lakers, magic was the reigning backtoback mvp 89-90 before jordan took it back in 91. worthy had his best scoring season, and even though they didnt have kareem they actually got more out of their threesome of sam perkins and mychal thompson and divac. scott wasnt old neither was green i think their core guys average was 29-30. the bulls just finally came of age. however, they didnt have coop. but i dont think that would have turned a 4-1 series for the bulls into a win for the lakers. and as far as the 90s , hey the bulls were just better. you have no basis to prove otherwise.[/QUOTE]

[B]Listen dude. I just prooved to you that those 3 playes would be unguardable easily:confusedshrug: by any Bulls Frontline of the 90s. And then again. McHale-Parish and Bird would not only Dominate Offensively but McHale and Parish would dominante Longley/Wellington or Grant/Rodman in the boards plus would also block more shots! than these dudes. If the Bulls had Paxon and Kerr for a 3-Pointer then the Celtics had Ainge and Bird hismelf. Plus they had Dennis DJ, a Clutch Shooter, a strong Defensive 6`5 PG that could Rebound, Play D and make others better. Then they had Maxwell on the beanch a talented on one one Smallforward/Powerfoward type with great speed and skill. You also had coming from the bench, the toughness and experience of Walton, whom could pass like a Guard from is Center spot, Play D and Rebound.

The Bulls would have no Chance, they would have to force to put in a Taller Squad. Scottie would be forced to play PG (this would lessen his Scoring Opportunities! and Jordan would have to do more of them). In the Post they would have to play with anotehr PF along Rodman or Grant (forget the SF Spot) and these two would have major troubles scoring do to lack of talent and guarding Bird-McHale-Parish in their PRIME is only a dream. No contest!

:rolleyes: [/B]

[QUOTE=97 bulls][B]here we go again. now, if your talking about popularity by your "most fans " statement then its 90s hands down. the 90s had higher ratings. [/B]and as far as hofers on teams, if your talking about careers then the 97 bulls have at least 4 players that are going to the hall or are in(jordan, pippen rodman, and parrish) not to mention kukoc might get in based on his accomplishments. but how many of those teams had players playing at a hof level for every year? [B]i mean, was kareem really playing at a hof level in 87 and 88? i believe without looking that he averaged about 15-17 points and 6-7 rebounds as a third option behind worthy and scott. the celtics had 3 hof but remember mchale was a 6th man for 2 of their 3 championships.[/B] the pistons probably will have 3 players with hof careers but while they were winning only two. or how about the sixers, i know they had only 2 and i feel that was the best team in the 80s.now, the bulls had three players in the 96-98 teams all palying at a hof level. so to sum it up all those teams you mention only had about 2 players playn at a hof level.[/QUOTE]

BTW we are not talking about popularity we are talking about quality.

Yes, Kareem was past his prime in '87 and '88 but he was still an NBA All-Star Center. Lets not forget he was NBA Finals MVP in '85 at age 38 and dropped 32 Points in the '87 Finals in game 6. Yes, McHale came off the bench early in his career but so what? He was averaging nearly 20 PPG and shooting 55% from the field as the 6th man. If anything that should tell you how deep those 80's Celtics were.

I mean the Bulls starting Center in '96-'98 was Luc Longley.:oldlol: Longley would of been the '86 Celtics #3 Center behind Parish and Walton.

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Listen dude. I just prooved to you that those 3 playes would be unguardable easily:confusedshrug: by any Bulls Frontline of the 90s. And then again. McHale-Parish and Bird would not only Dominate Offensively but McHale and Parish would dominante Longley/Wellington or Grant/Rodman in the boards plus would also block more shots! than these dudes. If the Bulls had Paxon and Kerr for a 3-Pointer then the Celtics had Ainge and Bird hismelf. Plus they had Dennis DJ, a Clutch Shooter, a strong Defensive 6`5 PG that could Rebound, Play D and make others better. Then they had Maxwell on the beanch a talented on one one Smallforward/Powerfoward type with great speed and skill. You also had coming from the bench, the toughness and experience of Walton, whom could pass like a Guard from is Center spot, Play D and Rebound.

The Bulls would have no Chance, they would have to force to put in a Taller Squad. Scottie would be forced to play PG (this would lessen his Scoring Opportunities! and Jordan would have to do more of them). In the Post they would have to play with anotehr PF along Rodman or Grant (forget the SF Spot) and these two would have major troubles scoring do to lack of talent and guarding Bird-McHale-Parish in their PRIME is only a dream. No contest!

:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

Cedric Maxwell never came off the bench when he was with the Celtics, he was always the starter until he suffered a injury during the '85 season he was the guy traded for Bill Walton so they never played together. McHale was the guy off the bench and 6th man of the year in '84 and '85. The '84 Celtics starting lineup was
G Dennis Johnson
G Gerald Henderson
F Larry Bird
F Cedric Maxwell
C Robert Parish

'85 Celtics
G Dennis Johnson
G Danny Ainge
F Larry Bird
F Cedric Maxwell
C Robert Parish

I'm not sure where Dennis Rodman would have had problems since he always played very well against the Celtics and those series were when he was a young player. Pippen would have never played point guard that's inaccurate to suggest that and he was a superb defensive player who would have locked down either Johnson or Ainge.

[QUOTE=nycelt84]Cedric Maxwell never came off the bench when he was with the Celtics, he was always the starter until he suffered a injury during the '85 season he was the guy traded for Bill Walton so they never played together. McHale was the guy off the bench and 6th man of the year in '84 and '85. The '84 Celtics starting lineup was
G Dennis Johnson
G Gerald Henderson
F Larry Bird
F Cedric Maxwell
C Robert Parish

'85 Celtics
G Dennis Johnson
G Danny Ainge
F Larry Bird
F Cedric Maxwell
C Robert Parish

I'm not sure where Dennis Rodman would have had problems since he always played very well against the Celtics and those series were when he was a young player. Pippen would have never played point guard that's inaccurate to suggest that and he was a superb defensive player who would have locked down either Johnson or Ainge.[/QUOTE]

Just look at the Bulls Centers. '86 Celtics would destroy the Bulls inside.

Oh, I have little doubt that the '86 Celtics would beat the Bulls.

[QUOTE=miles berg]Oh, I have little doubt that the '86 Celtics would beat the Bulls.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I have NO doubt that the '86 Celtics would beat the Bulls.

The 1996 Bulls are more athletic, better defensively on the perimeter with Jordan, Harper, Pippen . Rodman could provide more than capable interior defense and chip in points too. The willowy Kukoc and Kerr both can knock down open Js. The 1986 Celtics with Bird at his peak then are the epitome of toughness. McHale, Parish with a healthy Bill Walton who won Sixth Man of The Year that season as a triumvirate is an overwhelming front line. Dennis Johnson was still an elite defender with the streaky Ainge as his running mate. Sichting and Wedman are as reliable as the Bulls' trio of ivory snipers though Wedman IMO is much better than Buechler any day. The series would probably be the classic OK Corral shootout between Jordan and Bird. Jordan could score on DJ though he will have to work for them to some degree. Same goes with Bird with Pippen covering him though Larry Legend's deep reserves of will and heart are well chronicled. I'd give Bird the edge in that matchup even though Pip was a stellar defender. Would Rodman and company have slowed down McHale and Parish in the post? No unless the Worm could get into McHale's head. Parish would outplay Longley and Wennington... Heck, the then resurrected Big Redhead would outplay Longley and Wennington if he was a starter. If the 1996 Bulls get out in transition, the slower Celtics would be at a disadvantage. Half court? The mighty Celtic frontcourt would feast where they will pound it inside. Bird can score on the post too along with ruggedly hitting the glass for rebounds. It is THE factor that would decide the series. Offensive and defensive rebounding edge to the Celtics EVEN with the electric Rodman on the floor. You can't run when you constantly have to pull the ball from the basket then have to inbound it. Home floor factor? Not even close. I'd go with Boston Garden with its cramped visitor locker rooms, rats in the showers, the inside heat on the floor, the rabid fans that could make Attila's Huns look like a Sunday church group are intimidating. Not too mention the false fire alarms, crank phone calls during off days between games in that lovely city. Winner of this fantasy series? [B]I call the Celtics in six.[/B]

well game 7 of the 1984 finals is on espn classic right now:D

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Just look at the Bulls Centers. '86 Celtics would destroy the Bulls inside.[/QUOTE]

The Bulls get a lack of criticism for their centers but with those centers they still managed to beat Patrick Ewing, Shaquille O'Neal and Alonzo Mourning. All 3 of those guys are better than Parish and better than Walton in '86. Keep in mind he only averaged 7.6 points per game. The '97 Bulls were just as good as the '96 if not better. The only reason they didn't win 70 was because of Rodman's suspension for kicking the photographer and the '97 team had Brian Williams coming off the bench and Williams was a very capable player.

[QUOTE=nycelt84][B]The Bulls get a lack of criticism for their centers but with those centers they still managed to beat Patrick Ewing, Shaquille O'Neal and Alonzo Mourning.[/B] All 3 of those guys are better than Parish and better than Walton in '86. Keep in mind he only averaged 7.6 points per game. The '97 Bulls were just as good as the '96 if not better. The only reason they didn't win 70 was because of Rodman's suspension for kicking the photographer and the '97 team had Brian Williams coming off the bench and Williams was a very capable player.[/QUOTE]

The Bulls beat Ewing, O'Neal, and Mourning not the Bulls centers.

The '86 Celtics had the greatest front court in NBA History. They would destroy the Bulls up front. The Celtics are the better team from top to bottom.

[I]"We could not have won 70 games playing against 1980's teams."[/I]
- Dennis Rodman