Jordan 69 pt game vs Kobe 81 point game

[QUOTE=04mzwach]i take nothing away from Kobe you Laker Homer. I'm just saying that Kobe's 81 is nothing compared to Jordan's 69 and you even know that yourself. Don't play me dude.[/QUOTE]

heres your post:

Jordan is better than Kobe. Seriously, how many times do we have to go through this Kobe 81 and Jordan 69 business? [B]We all know that Jordan would have 200 points in a game or something like that compared to Kobe's measley 81 points[/B] in a game with versus one of the ****tiest teams in the entire universe on top of that and with Jordan facing the best team with basketball abilities in equivilance to God.

nuff said

If I saw Kobe's 81 point game on dvd I'd be willing to pay up to $7 for it. On the other hand, I wouldn't even waste my time watching Jordan's 69 point game in overtime.

[QUOTE=xxxSuperStar]You just don't "find" youself on the lowblock and take rebounds away from much taller and bigger and capable rebounding teammates. For example, the very first Jordan rebound was over 6 10 and high leaping, ex dunk champion Larry Nance and then fouled for a 3-point play. You expend effort as a 6"6 guard vs large men (Doughrety and Nance, not to mention those on his own team).

Jordan is the GOAT because of his will to win and do great. Kobe probabaly, all in all is as talented, he just doesn't have the will. No discredit to him, because I don't know if anybody in all of professional sports has had the will and desire to win like Jordan had. That is why he's not only the NBA GOAT, but ranks up there will the professional athlete GOATs.[/QUOTE]

Kobe doesn't have the will? Go **** yourself you ignorant, unknowledgable ****.

[QUOTE=ManUtd]Kobe doesn't have the will? Go **** yourself you ignorant, unknowledgable ****.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe he's saying that Kobe doesn't have the "will to win." He obviously does. Its just that his will and desire doesn't match Jordan's - which is true. You don't have to be either a Jordan or Kobe supporter to acknowledge this.

Its hard to measure things like "will" and "desire," but the only athlete that I would put on Jordan's level in that regard is Muhammad Ali.

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]I don't believe he's saying that Kobe doesn't have the "will to win." He obviously does. Its just that his will and desire doesn't match Jordan's - which is true. You don't have to be either a Jordan or Kobe supporter to acknowledge this.

Its hard to measure things like "will" and "desire," but the only athlete that I would put on Jordan's level in that regard is Muhammad Ali.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. That is exactly what I was saying.

To me it's Kobe's game.

81 points, 42 minutes, 1.93 PPM
69 points, 50 minutes, 1.38 PPM

That's a huge discrepency.

sorry, Jordan's 63 in the PLAYOFFS against the eventual champs, and also one of the top 5 greatest basketball teams OF ALL TIME , is more impressive than his 69 or Kobe's 81 against the worse team in the league in the regular season.

And Jordan fans, why even waste breath arguing with Kobe fans, Jordan has done so much more besides the 69, hell I'm a huge Jordan fan and I don't even care about the 69, he has had at least 10-15 more memorable or better performances, most of them when it mattered, WITH THE CHAMPIONSHIP on the line, so let Kobe fans have their 81, it'll be like the way Tmac fans always bring up their 13 in 35 EVERY FREAKING TIME Tmac is being compared to another player. After a few more years of .500 ball and first round exits, that's all the Kobe fans will have.

I can just picture it, in 2009 or so--

Lebron fan: Damn Lebron, back to back MVPs, led his team to the finals, averaged 30 10 and 9 for a whole season.

Kobe fan: So, remember when Kobe had 81?

it's gonna be like that, they're gonna hold on to the 81, that's all they have right now.

I love how one dimensional their thinking is too, it's like we can be arguing who's a better player, and Duncan fans will bring up their team success/win % with Duncan, Lebron fans will bring up his many upsides (youth, athletism), Wade will bring up his amazing performance in the Finals, generally, most fans will have something legit to bring up, something that usually lasts more than one game or has been proven over a few seasons.... Kobe fans wlil just jump in and go "OH YEAH, WELL CAN LEBRON SCORE 81? NOP HE CAN'T" and act like that's enough to justify Kobe as the most important player in the league. Come on man, Duncan barely scores 21 and I'd take Duncan over Kobe every game every time ( and so would most NBA execs, GM, coaches)

[QUOTE=ekzistenz]To me it's Kobe's game.

81 points, 42 minutes, 1.93 PPM
69 points, 50 minutes, 1.38 PPM

That's a huge discrepency.[/QUOTE]
This is just stupid. The real discrepancy here is in the assertion made and the obvious lack of understanding of how the game works by this poster.

While stats are important, you can't reduce a comparison between two games to "points per minute." How retarded is that? You haven't factored in the quality of the opponent, the significance/importance of the game, the venue where it was played, or many other such factors which add many more layers of complexity to this discussion.

There have been some good arguments on both sides in this thread, but please feel free not to join in if a stupid "ppm" criteria is all you're going to contribute.

[QUOTE]sorry, Jordan's 63 in the PLAYOFFS against the eventual champs, and also one of the top 5 greatest basketball teams OF ALL TIME , is more impressive than his 69 or Kobe's 81 against the worse team in the league in the regular season.[/QUOTE]

so you take 63 in a double-OT loss over 81 or even 69 points in a win? If so, you're one dumb ****

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]I don't believe he's saying that Kobe doesn't have the "will to win." He obviously does. Its just that his will and desire doesn't match Jordan's - which is true. You don't have to be either a Jordan or Kobe supporter to acknowledge this.

Its hard to measure things like "will" and "desire," but the only athlete that I would put on Jordan's level in that regard is Muhammad Ali.[/QUOTE]


Umm, check your facts. Kobe's will to win is incredible. On the par with Jordan's. In fact, Tex Winter said that Kobe works harder than Jordan. That's saying something.
Kobe and Jordan are equals when it comes to will, desire and hard work.

[QUOTE]Umm, check your facts. Kobe's will to win is incredible.[/QUOTE]

"will to win" can hardly be called a "fact"

[QUOTE=MJ23Overrated]If I saw Kobe's 81 point game on dvd I'd be willing to pay up to $7 for it. On the other hand, I wouldn't even waste my time watching Jordan's 69 point game in overtime.[/QUOTE]

This is funny as hell, I am not sure whether it is because the post is so random yet speaks the truth to a large degree, or because it's the first post titled "pointless thread" by a poster called "MJ23overrated".

If Kobe's 81 points game and MJ's 69 points game were both on dvd available at the same price and I only had the money for one I'd pick Kobe's for sure. I don't know why, maybe it's because video nowadays are in better quality or something.

[QUOTE=Lei]This is funny as hell, I am not sure whether it is because the post is so random yet speaks the truth to a large degree, or because it's the first post titled "pointless thread" by a poster called "MJ23overrated".

If Kobe's 81 points game and MJ's 69 points game were both on dvd available at the same price and I only had the money for one I'd pick Kobe's for sure. I don't know why, maybe it's because video nowadays are in better quality or something.[/QUOTE]

I'd pick Kobe's too, simply because it's more historic. Doesn't make it the better overall game, however. :P

[QUOTE=Lei]If Kobe's 81 points game and MJ's 69 points game were both on dvd available at the same price and I only had the money for one I'd pick Kobe's for sure. I don't know why, maybe it's because video nowadays are in better quality or something.[/QUOTE]

There's an element of theatrics present in the Bryant game that just isn't present in the Jordan game. The 81 points itself is somewhat exciting, but the nature of the feat, the circumstances under which the points were scored, and the effect that Bryant's performance had on both teams, almost single handedly turning the game around, all lend to the allure of the 81 point game.

One thing about Jordan's performance is that the Bulls at a point had a decent lead. It was the Cavs who had come back to make the game close inspite of Jordan's huge numbers. It's almost the reverse of what generally makes for exciting games... one player is putting up big numbers for the duration of a game, his team develops a decent lead, but it's the other team comes back to almost win... It's almost an anticlimax.

On the other hand, the Lakers were down by a lot of points to the Raptors. A team that many have described as the worst defensive team in quite some time had managed to lock up almost all of Bryant's teammates with the exception of a few and were having their way with the them. Commentators were saying that the game was over and most of the Lakers were playing as if it was over. Bryant then leads the team back from being down big, the energy of his teammates picks up as a result of his play and they too begin to play better, they turn a large deficit into a large lead, Bryant scores the second most points in NBA history, and they win. People like comeback stories, especially ones that are theatrical and improbable. This is likely why Bryant's game is more exciting for some. This certainly doesn't mean that it was a better performance, and I think that this is where some get mixed up. They don't differentiate between the more exciting performance and the better all around performance.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]There's an element of theatrics present in the Bryant game that just isn't present in the Jordan game. The 81 points itself is somewhat exciting, but the nature of the feat, the circumstances under which the points were scored, and the effect that Bryant's performance had on both teams, almost single handedly turning the game around, all lend to the allure of the 81 point game.

One thing about Jordan's performance is that the Bulls at a point had a decent lead. It was the Cavs who had come back to make the game close inspite of Jordan's huge numbers. It's almost the reverse of what generally makes for exciting games... one player is putting up big numbers for the duration of a game, his team develops a decent lead, but it's the other team comes back to almost win... It's almost an anticlimax.

On the other hand, the Lakers were down by a lot of points to the Raptors. A team that many have described as the worst defensive team in quite some time had managed to lock up almost all of Bryant's teammates with the exception of a few and were having their way with the them. Commentators were saying that the game was over and most of the Lakers were playing as if it was over. Bryant then leads the team back from being down big, the energy of his teammates picks up as a result of his play and they too begin to play better, they turn a large deficit into a large lead, Bryant scores the second most points in NBA history, and they win. People like comeback stories, especially ones that are theatrical and improbable. This is likely why Bryant's game is more exciting for some. [B]This certainly doesn't mean that it was a better performance, and I think that this is where some get mixed up. They don't differentiate between the more exciting performance and the better all around performance.[/B][/QUOTE]

Great post overall and I think it's pretty reasonable to say Jordan had the better [B]all around [/B]performance. I'd just like to point out that the thread was actually about "the more impressive" performance as the thread starter put it:

[QUOTE][B]Which is more impressive?[/B] I have to say Jordans. 18 rebounds while scoring 69 points is unheard of.[/QUOTE]

So I think the criteria is rather the degree of "impressiveness", which is why I'd take Kobe's for those key factors you mentioned above such as the second highest score in history, a dramatic comeback (singlehandedly) under pressure instead of almost blowing a lead, etc.