Scottie Pippen in the playoffs from 1991-93

My biggest issue with the PO talking point regarding Miller is his PO numbers are goosed by him being a 1st round monster (either as an underdog or overdog--94' was their only competitive 1st round series when they were the 5 seed). If Miller was the same player in the subsequent rounds I would come down on the side of a lot of the pro-Miller people but he wasn't. He went from something like 26 PPG in the 1st round to 22 in the ECSF and 21 in the ECF. (24 in the finals but only one series, not a legit sample there.)

If your calling card is scoring and in the biggest series you scoring is 21 PPG, that's a problem, no? Look at the Pippen threads. We see him dissed daily for scoring 19-20 PPG as a 2nd option. If 20 sucks as a 2nd, how can 21 be awesome for a 1st? "Efficiency"? That the 21 came on 14 shots and the 20 on 16 shots (some of the Pippen shots are end of quarter/end of shot clock bail outs...)? Really? Is that what it is all boiled down to? 21 on 14 versus 20 on 16? Those extra 2 Miller shots go to other (lesser) Indiana players. They don't disappear.

[QUOTE]his cheap foul drawing is unlikable but elite almost harden level. a 40% ftr is absurd for someone who takes mostly spot ups, floaters, and pull ups and leads to elite efficiency; efficiency and foul rate carried over to the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

True, but we know how he did that: he kicked the defender and the defender would be called for a foul. :lol

[QUOTE]RS: 27.5pts/100 61.4ts% 40.4%ftr, PS: 30.5pts/100 60.1ts% 41.1%ftr[/QUOTE]

Eh, no one actually plays 100 possessions so that doesn't tell me much. Smits' "per 100" number are better than Miller's. Smits' prime was shorter but let's compare their primes.

Smits 1994-1999: 32/13/3
Miller 1990-2000: 30/5/5
Miller 1990-1998: 31/5/5

If Miller is this offensive GOAT, why does he trail his teammate?

[QUOTE]"In scaled adjusted plus-minus, his first seven seasons (1994-2000) are above the 75th percentile, with three seasons between the 93rd and 96th percentile." According to the graphs he posted his highest 3 seasons in apm were 98-00.[/QUOTE]

All good--but he doesn't compare to the type of players he gets compared to on ISH. Even Taylor concedes Miller did not have a top 50 all-time peak--he has Miller as high as he does because Miller maintained a good level for a long time.

[QUOTE=juju151111;4011089]Good post. Top 25 and Goat defender.:cheers:[/QUOTE]

Top 20

:rockon:

:cheers:

Pippen in the 1991-93 nba finals put up better stats than kawhi and iggy in the 2014 and 2015 nba finals.

.
[SIZE=3]If Paul George was bad for his performance against Denver, then how is Pippen good??[/SIZE]


[Indent][B]George 20' ECSF[/B]...........'..... 21.7... 5.4... 3.6... 58.7 ts

[B]Pippen 96-98' Playoffs[/B]...... 17.6... 7.4... 5.0... 50.0 ts[/Indent]



[SIZE=3]1st three-peat Pippen was only marginally better than PG's Denver performance[/SIZE]


[Indent][B]Pippen 91-93' Playoffs[/B]...... 20.0... 8.3... 6.0... 53.6 ts[/Indent]



[SIZE=3]Ultimately, Pippen had 2 decent playoff runs in his entire career (bolded below):[/SIZE]


[Indent]1988..... 10 ppg

1989..... 13 ppg

1990..... migraine choke cost bulls title

[B]1991..... solid

1992..... mostly solid[/B] (92' ecsf)

1993..... 2.0 bpm w/ lower PER, WS/48 and pace-adjusted scoring than 14' Wade

1994..... choked vs Knicks (21.7 on 40%)

1995..... choked vs Magic (19 on 40%)

96-98'.... 17.6 on 41%

99-03'.... 14 on 41%[/iNDENT]

[QUOTE=3ball;14292925].
[SIZE=3]If Paul George was bad for his performance against Denver, then how is Pippen good??[/SIZE]


[Indent][B]George 20' ECSF[/B]...........'..... 21.7... 5.4... 3.6... 58.7 ts

[B]Pippen 96-98' Playoffs[/B]...... 17.6... 7.4... 5.0... 50.0 ts[/Indent]



[SIZE=3]1st three-peat Pippen was only marginally better than PG's Denver performance[/SIZE]


[Indent][B]Pippen 91-93' Playoffs[/B]...... 20.0... 8.3... 6.0... 53.6 ts[/Indent]



[SIZE=3]Ultimately, Pippen had 2 decent playoff runs in his entire career (bolded below):[/SIZE]


[Indent]1988..... 10 ppg

1989..... 13 ppg

1990..... migraine choke cost bulls title

[B]1991..... solid

1992..... mostly solid[/B] (92' ecsf)

1993..... 2.0 bpm w/ lower PER, WS/48 and pace-adjusted scoring than 14' Wade

1994..... choked vs Knicks (21.7 on 40%)

1995..... choked vs Magic (19 on 40%)

96-98'.... 17.6 on 41%

99-03'.... 14 on 41%[/iNDENT][/QUOTE]

The average pace from 1996-1998 was ~85. The 2020 ECF were at 94.

So not only are there several extra possessions, but Pippen had a teammate who averaged 25 shots a game in this completely diminished pace. It's no wonder he didn't a) get enough shots and b) develop any sort of offensive rhythm because of it.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14292946]The average pace from 1996-1998 was ~85. The 2020 ECF were at 94.

So not only are there several extra possessions, but Pippen had a teammate who averaged 25 shots a game in this completely diminished pace. It's no wonder he didn't a) get enough shots and b) develop any sort of offensive rhythm because of it.[/QUOTE]


Pippen averaged 15 on 34% in the 96' Finals - [B]you think he deserved MORE shots?[/B]

Pippen averaged 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs - [b]you think he deserved MORE shots?[/b]

Pippen averaged 50.0% true shooting in the 93' Playoffs including 45% in the Finals - [B]you think he deserved MORE shots?[/B]

Pippen isn't capable of more shots and the Bulls would lose if he did.

Ultimately, why do you keep talking about Jordan's shot volume when Pippen's peak capability is 22 and 5 apg, so he was clearly playing to capacity next to Jordan

[QUOTE=3ball;14292953]Pippen averaged 15 on 34% in the 96' Finals - [B]you think he deserved MORE shots?[/B]

Pippen averaged 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs - [b]you think he deserved MORE shots?[/b]

Pippen averaged 50.0% true shooting in the 93' Playoffs including 45% in the Finals - [B]you think he deserved MORE shots?[/B]

Pippen isn't capable of more shots and the Bulls would lose if he did.

Ultimately, why do you keep talking about Jordan's shot volume when Pippen's peak capability is 22 and 5 apg, so he was clearly playing to capacity next to Jordan[/QUOTE]

Because you're comparing his numbers overall to George without context.

Pace means that by default, he would scored more. Not to mention more efficiently. Stop posting stats you know nothing about.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14293031]Because you're comparing his numbers overall to George without context.

Pace means that by default, he would scored more. Not to mention more efficiently. Stop posting stats you know nothing about.[/QUOTE]


The pace-adjusted numbers show the same thing - similar stats or worse for Pippen, except no one noticed for Pippen's poor play, while George was crucified.

No one noticed or tracked Pippen's play because the Bulls were a 1-man team where only 1 guy was held accountable and expected to win games

[QUOTE=3ball;14293037]The pace-adjusted numbers show the same thing - similar stats or worse for Pippen, except no one noticed for Pippen's poor play, [B]while George was crucified.[/B]

No one noticed or tracked Pippen's play because the Bulls were a 1-man team where only 1 guy was held accountable and expected to win games[/QUOTE]
No, one insane loser Kawhi stan is attempting to make George the scapegoat. No one else cares about him.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14293045]No, one insane loser Kawhi stan is attempting to make George the scapegoat. No one else cares about him.[/QUOTE]


I watched every minute of the 96' Finals.

I was unaware that Pippen wet the bed until a few years ago when I looked it up, at which point I noticed how badly Pippen played in [U]many[/U] series that I'd watched.

Ultimately, no one noticed or tracked Pippen's play because the Bulls were a 1-man team where only 1 guy was held accountable and expected to win games

[QUOTE=3ball;14293051]I watched every minute of the 96' Finals.

[B]I was unaware that Pippen wet the bed until a few years ago when I looked it up[/B], at which point I noticed how badly Pippen played in [U]many[/U] series that I'd watched.

Ultimately, No one noticed or tracked Pippen's play because the Bulls were a 1-man team where only 1 guy was held accountable and expected to win games[/QUOTE]
So about the same time you decided to use context-less scoring and fg% numbers to downplay him because people started talking about Lebron on the same plane as MJ.

When you watched the 96 finals you realized and appreciated Pippen's impact as an overall basketball player.

Lebron mania turned you against him.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14293056]So about the same time you decided to use context-less scoring and fg% numbers to downplay him because people started talking about Lebron on the same plane as MJ.

[B]When you watched the 96 finals you realized and appreciated Pippen's impact as an overall basketball player[/B].

Lebron mania turned you against him.[/QUOTE]


I never noticed Pippen or his performance anymore than Grant or Paxson, who were actually more notable because they routinely hit big shots down the stretch of tight games and Pippen almost never did.

Everyone understood that Pippen was once routinely bullied and his peak capability was about 20 ppg with zero clutch, so no one was waiting for a big performance from him.. Pippen was mostly ignored, except the occasional "let's do a pippen appreciation article or interview" where his glue guy/role player attributes were lionized

[QUOTE=3ball;14293037]The pace-adjusted numbers show the same thing - similar stats or worse for Pippen, except no one noticed for Pippen's poor play, while George was crucified.

No one noticed or tracked Pippen's play because the Bulls were a 1-man team where only 1 guy was held accountable and expected to win games[/QUOTE]

Show me the pace adjusted numbers for Pippen please.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14293065]Show me your pace adjusted number for Pippen pleass[/QUOTE]


Per 100 look it up yourself

17 ppg won't become better than 22 ppg I promise