Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=Jackass18]I was going off on a bit of a tangent and not specifically calling out 'DNA replication'. I'm talking about all of 'God's work'. If this is all God's work, then he made some shoddy products and a mediocre universe. According to the OP, God has such attributes as: omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence, but this is what we have? All these flaws in a ****ed up world? Couldn't he have done better? What, did you want me to comment about mutation? If the process (DNA replication) is near perfect as they say it is, then in comparison to most things it's not shoddy, but I guess you were just looking to nitpick about something.[/QUOTE]
No you said that you were generous in calling DNA replication mediocre.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=Jello]No you said that you were generous in calling DNA replication mediocre.[/QUOTE]
That "it" wasn't referring to something specific like DNA replication, but you can count it in with everything.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=Jello]Dumbest poster on this board.:facepalm[/QUOTE]
You are a whiny little b*tch. I hate people like you.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=chungerball]You are a whiny little b*tch. I hate people like you.[/QUOTE]
Where did I whine? You're the one whining. Idiots on this board can't have an intellectual debate, I see.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
Insulting everyone is a great way to have an intelligent debate.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
Bladers has been watching that boring, biased Ben Stein documentary too much.
I love how the religious argument always only tries to attack the logical and researched idea of life, but never try to explain it with anything besides "God did it".
You can't prove something's true by claiming something isn't true. If not A, it's not automatically B. That's the biggest fallacy of all, and it's embarrassing that it's still being argued this way.
It's time to stop trying to "prove" God made life since there's no proof of it at all, there's only speculation. All religious nuts like Bladers can do is do their best to try and pull the wool over everyone's eyes by claiming nobody knows 100% for sure how life started, so that it must be God.
We don't completely understand right this second, but how is that proof of a religion that was thought up out of thin air? At least scientific theories are based upon facts that we can see and have researched. Religious arguments are all built upon non-facts, and trying to disprove all evidence against itself 24/7.
Example: Religion didn't want anyone to think the Earth revolved around the Sun. Religion wanted everyone to think the Earth was the center of the universe and that this was a special place designed by God, where everything was designed around us. Clearly this is massively incorrect, and despite religious factions' futile attempts to torture and kill off people who tried to spread this information, we now know what's actually true.
Another example: Evolutionary theory. Here's a big one. Religious factions again fought tooth and nail to disprove this theory. Thankfully religious factions had far less power than they did in the past and couldn't just kill off anyone who tried to spread this information to protect their interests.
With the spread of information now almost completely unchecked, religious belief is at an all time low. Is this a surprise to anybody? Coincidence? Or inevitability?
[B]Now, we have the hilarious altered argument (Bladers even did this in the OP) that evolution exists, but only after God created the first cell. :lol I'm happy to know that the religious argument has failed so hard, and to such a massive extent that their argument is now debased to the final, and lowly argument of, "God made the first cell, you can't prove otherwise!".
That's just pathetic. We can't prove that he didn't any more than you can prove he did. In fact, even if a scientist does create a cell on their own (one of the stupid arguments you made in the OP), you would simply say, see, look, it took an intelligent being to create a cell. When have we seen cells spawn out of nothingness? Until we see that, God made cells!
That's clearly the next step in the religious argument once we do make cells after we develop the means to do so. And at that point we obviously can't witness spontaneous cell production. . .and even by some chance we do, it'll be claimed God did it. You can't prove he didn't!
It's a circle of logic, created to prey upon the ignorant. Religion is built upon countless fallacies. Every religious argument is a fallacy by definition.[/B]
In conclusion, to Bladers, and everyone else trying to make people believe in what they have to peddle, we're living in an age where you have to give proof of your argument, you can't just try and debunk another argument then pretend that somehow validates yours. It doesn't.
In the end:
Science: Information.
Religion: Misinformation.
I'll take science, thanks.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=Jello]That's not evolution... Those are the supposed mechanisms that drive evolution.:facepalm[/QUOTE]
and I was asking if you accept them. simple question requiring a simple answer. Funny how you can accept the broad implications of differential breeding changing allele frequencies in a population, but not acknowledge that the changes in allele frequencies are due to differential breeding success based on phenotypic traits. So, you dont eat domesticated foods then?
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=SinJackal]Bladers has been watching that boring, biased Ben Stein documentary too much.
I love how the religious argument always only tries to attack the logical and researched idea of life, but never try to explain it with anything besides "God did it".
You can't prove something's true by claiming something isn't true. If not A, it's not automatically B. That's the biggest fallacy of all, and it's embarrassing that it's still being argued this way.
It's time to stop trying to "prove" God made life since there's no proof of it at all, there's only speculation. All religious nuts like Bladers can do is do their best to try and pull the wool over everyone's eyes by claiming nobody knows 100% for sure how life started, so that it must be God.
We don't completely understand right this second, but how is that proof of a religion that was thought up out of thin air? At least scientific theories are based upon facts that we can see and have researched. Religious arguments are all built upon non-facts, and trying to disprove all evidence against itself 24/7.
Example: Religion didn't want anyone to think the Earth revolved around the Sun. Religion wanted everyone to think the Earth was the center of the universe and that this was a special place designed by God, where everything was designed around us. Clearly this is massively incorrect, and despite religious factions' futile attempts to torture and kill off people who tried to spread this information, we now know what's actually true.
Another example: Evolutionary theory. Here's a big one. Religious factions again fought tooth and nail to disprove this theory. Thankfully religious factions had far less power than they did in the past and couldn't just kill off anyone who tried to spread this information to protect their interests.
With the spread of information now almost completely unchecked, religious belief is at an all time low. Is this a surprise to anybody? Coincidence? Or inevitability?
[B]Now, we have the hilarious altered argument (Bladers even did this in the OP) that evolution exists, but only after God created the first cell. :lol I'm happy to know that the religious argument has failed so hard, and to such a massive extent that their argument is now debased to the final, and lowly argument of, "God made the first cell, you can't prove otherwise!".
That's just pathetic. We can't prove that he didn't any more than you can prove he did. In fact, even if a scientist does create a cell on their own (one of the stupid arguments you made in the OP), you would simply say, see, look, it took an intelligent being to create a cell. When have we seen cells spawn out of nothingness? Until we see that, God made cells!
That's clearly the next step in the religious argument once we do make cells after we develop the means to do so. And at that point we obviously can't witness spontaneous cell production. . .and even by some chance we do, it'll be claimed God did it. You can't prove he didn't!
It's a circle of logic, created to prey upon the ignorant. Religion is built upon countless fallacies. Every religious argument is a fallacy by definition.[/B]
In conclusion, to Bladers, and everyone else trying to make people believe in what they have to peddle, we're living in an age where you have to give proof of your argument, you can't just try and debunk another argument then pretend that somehow validates yours. It doesn't.
In the end:
Science: Information.
Religion: Misinformation.
I'll take science, thanks.[/QUOTE]
This post is consistent.
The only problem is that it's based on a false assumption.
Religion (or at least the Catholic one - that I think you are referring to when writing) doesn't refute the theory of evolution at all. The Vatican has accepted the theory of evolution long ago.
It's really crazy how you Americans are so busy with this false debate on evolution, whereas in Rome they have solved it years and years ago.
The debate is actually on a completely different field, whereas you seem to think that somehow the Roman Church still states that man was made out of mud...?!
You must have some pretty crazy priests/preachers there in the US that make you think that :lol
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[quote=boozehound]and I was asking if you accept them. simple question requiring a simple answer. Funny how you can accept the broad implications of differential breeding changing allele frequencies in a population, but not acknowledge that the changes in allele frequencies are due to differential breeding success based on phenotypic traits. So, you dont eat domesticated foods then?[/quote]
Booze check your PMs.
Oh and organized religion is the root of all the world's problems......blah blah blah.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[quote=Jasi]You must have some pretty crazy priests/preachers there in the US that make you think that :lol[/quote]
No we just have the ones that like to touch you, you know, there.
Seriously the Catholic Church in the US is not even involved in any debate on evolution.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]No we just have the ones that like to touch you, you know, there.
Seriously the Catholic Church in the US is not even involved in any debate on evolution.[/QUOTE]
So why does this topic come out regularly in the US (not only on ISH, I mean)?
Seen from here, it really seems like a topical issue.
Seriously, that has always puzzled me.
Who doesn't accept the theory of evolution in the US?
Is this group big enough for other groups (atheists, Catholics, actually every group I can think of) to even care?
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[quote=Jasi]So why does this topic come out regularly in the US (not only on ISH, I mean)?
Seen from here, it really seems like a topical issue.
Seriously, that has always puzzled me.
Who doesn't accept the theory of evolution in the US?
Is this group big enough for other groups (atheists, Catholics, actually every group I can think of) to even care?[/quote]
Because Christianity in the US is dominated at the moment by a number of evangelical sects, ie the Southern Baptist Association, along with numerous mega churches that don't have any type of hierarchy and sort of make the rules up themselves. Not that there's anything wrong with that but evolution has been a target of a lot of them and it really doesn't make them look all that smart.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[QUOTE=Jasi]This post is consistent.
The only problem is that it's based on a false assumption.
Religion (or at least the Catholic one - that I think you are referring to when writing) doesn't refute the theory of evolution at all. The Vatican has accepted the theory of evolution long ago.
It's really crazy how you Americans are so busy with this false debate on evolution, whereas in Rome they have solved it years and years ago.
The debate is actually on a completely different field, whereas you seem to think that somehow the Roman Church still states that man was made out of mud...?!
You must have some pretty crazy priests/preachers there in the US that make you think that :lol[/QUOTE]
the catholic church in the US supports the papal bull acknowledging evolution and biblical belief are consistent. Although there may be individual priests who present different view, I would imagine that they are told to shut it pretty quick.
ALmost every major organized religion in the US has issued a statement acknowledging that evolution and their faith are compatible. Its really just a fringe (but a really large one, kind of like one of those buckskin jackets) of "bible" churches/evangelicals that are rabidly anti-evolution/science. Unfortunately, they are in place on schoolboards all across the country, with an agenda to introduce their religious view into the science curriculum. Sad really, when Xtians talk about being oppressed in this country because they cant force everyone to publicly pray in the classroom. Ill show you oppression!
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
[quote=boozehound]the catholic church in the US supports the papal bull acknowledging evolution and biblical belief are consistent. Although there may be individual priests who present different view, I would imagine that they are told to shut it pretty quick.
ALmost every major organized religion in the US has issued a statement acknowledging that evolution and their faith are compatible. Its really just a fringe (but a really large one, kind of like one of those buckskin jackets) of "bible" churches/evangelicals that are rabidly anti-evolution/science. Unfortunately, they are in place on schoolboards all across the country, with an agenda to introduce their religious view into the science curriculum. Sad really, when Xtians talk about being oppressed in this country because they cant force everyone to publicly pray in the classroom. Ill show you oppression![/quote]
This. And that's the rub for Christians like myself. We tend to get lumped into this group because they are so vocal atm.
Re: Exposing the Fallacies of Science/Atheist-ism & Proving Intelligent Design!
Uh so it's the Evangelicals?
Wow.
I didn't know they were that big.
Thanks for the info!