Would Bulls fans trade Derrick Rose for LeBron James if they had the chance?

[QUOTE=tpols]What this comes down to is gino thinks a 33%3pt shooter=/=a 50% 2pt shooter.

He values how many misses/makes a player has as how efficient he was. That's his opinion.

The true measure of efficiency has already been defined for him multiple times.[/QUOTE]

Because that is what the word means. Raw efficiency is makes and misses for everything. field goals, threes, and free throws. you want to plug all these numbers into a formula and have it spit out numbers that are always way closer than reality.

the act of taking more threes does not make a player more efficient that misses more shots and shoots 9% worse from the ft line while scoring less points from the ft line. a .3% difference just doesn't do reality justice.

its not an opinion that missed shots are bad. its just a fact. it is an opinion that taking more threes should be rewarded in an efficiency measure that estimates and manipulates data.

why do you need to manipulate data when you can see the raw data just as easily?

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Lebron is a better leader? A better teammate? A better ball handler? Has a better mid range game (floaters/jumpers)?

He's more loyal to his organization? Carries less baggage? Wants to win more? Plays harder?


I don't think so chump--keep hating.[/QUOTE]

Lebron in his third year pwnd everything Rose has done this year. I bet there were threads in 2007 by you trolls about how Lebron is more humble,a better teammate and plays harder than Kobe.

You are retarded son, very

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]That is absolutely represented in the raw data. All you have to look at is his 3pt % and attempts.
.[/QUOTE]
Yea and if he's shooting 33% from the 3 pt line that is equivalent to shooting 50% from 2pt range. It is the same number of points in the same number of possessions.:oldlol:

So if lebron is taking more threes than jordan OF COURSE his FG will be lower but when you adjust the percentage for the amount of points they actually scored when given the same number of looks they have the same percentage.. and that is what eFG is.

You are actually the idiot for using only FG to compare players when they differ in the amount of threes they take because it gives a distorted picture of who was more efficient.

[QUOTE=tpols]I agree. I'm just using the overall numbers in general for the argument of why TS and eFG are essential stats to use when comparing players who take differing amounts of three pointers. I wasn't really doing an in depth analysis of jordan and lebron.[/QUOTE]

TS% is a little skewed because it takes into account FT's, and judging by the refs and how the rules have helped perimeter players today (the league in general shoots more FTs now), I don't think it's fair to use. Also, on average, a 2 and 3PT shot is worth more than FTs. eFG and FG% are probably the best measures of efficiency.

I just use FT, FG and 3PT%'s to determine if a player got to the line, shot too many 3s and/or FGs. I don't need all these adjusted and advanced stats to tell me whether or not said player was efficient.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Because that is what the word means. Raw efficiency is makes and misses for everything. field goals, threes, and free throws. ?[/QUOTE]
Yup and since threes are worth more than twos a miss from a three is not as costly as a miss from two because it's benefit is 1.5X greater.

You're basically dancing around the point and trying to evade the fact that 3s are worth more than twos by saying that makes are makes and misses are misses. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=tpols]Yea and if he's shooting 33% from the 3 pt line that is equivalent to shooting 50% from 2pt range. It is the same number of points in the same number of possessions.:oldlol:

So if lebron is taking more threes than jordan OF COURSE his FG will be lower but when you adjust the percentage for the amount of points they actually scored when given the same number of looks they have the same percentage.. and that is what eFG is.

You are actually the idiot for using only FG to compare players when they differ in the amount of threes they take because it gives a distorted picture of who was more efficient.[/QUOTE]

but i'm not using just fg%. i'm using everything. LOL moron. that is my point.

I'm saying you should use the raw data. Does Lebron or Jordan have an advantage at the FT line according to True Shooting? How much does it weigh scoring more points at the ft line on 9% better shooting? That is a huge gap.

we aren't arguing efg%. we are arguing ts%.:no:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]TS% is a little skewed because it takes into account FT's, and judging by the refs and how the rules have helped perimeter players today (the league in general shoots more FTs now), I don't think it's fair to use. Also, on average, a 2 and 3PT shot is worth more than FTs. eFG and FG% are probably the best measures of efficiency.

I just use FT, FG and 3PT%'s to determine if a player got to the line, shot too many 3s and/or FGs. I don't need all these adjusted and advanced stats to tell me whether or not said player was efficient.[/QUOTE]
Don't use TS if thats how you feel.

Use eFG. It is the most accurate measure of how a player scored from the floor because it takes into account 2pt and 3pt percentages.

[QUOTE=tpols]Yup and since threes are worth more than twos a miss from a three is not as costly as a miss from two because it's benefit is 1.5X greater.

You're basically dancing around the point and trying to evade the fact that 3s are worth more than twos by saying that makes are makes and misses are misses. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

not at all. what you are arguing for is efg%. we aren't even talking about that.

[QUOTE=Andrei89]Lebron in his third year pwnd everything Rose has done this year. I bet there were threads in 2007 by you trolls about how Lebron is more humble,a better teammate and plays harder than Kobe.

You are retarded son, very[/QUOTE]


Well, if Rose wins MVP your first statement would be patently false.

And Rose and crew beat a "super team" that was destined to win 73 games this season not once, not twice, but three times.

why would you pull me into a Kobe Vs. Lebron debate?

I don't know how that pertains to anything sir.

[QUOTE=tpols]Don't use TS if thats how you feel.

Use eFG. It is the most accurate measure of how a player scored from the floor because it takes into account 2pt and 3pt percentages.[/QUOTE]

actually its not. looking at the raw fg% and raw 3pt percentage is more accurate.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]
I don't need all these adjusted and advanced stats to tell me whether or not said player was efficient.[/QUOTE]
And yet you preach W/S and PER as tell-all stats like they're gospel :oldlol:

[QUOTE=chazzy]And yet you preach W/S and PER as tell-all stats like they're gospel :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
:lol

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]
I'm saying you should use the raw data. Does Lebron or Jordan have an advantage at the FT line according to True Shooting? How much does it weigh scoring more points at the ft line on 9% better shooting? That is a huge gap.[/QUOTE]
Jordan absolutely has an advantage at the line. Jordan, as I said before, is less efficient from the field than lebron(eFG).. but he is 9% more efficient from the line. This jumps him ahead of lebron in TS because all TS is is eFG with FTs taken into account. It literally reflects reality perfectly.:oldlol:
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]
we aren't arguing efg%. we are arguing ts%.:no:[/QUOTE]
Wait but misses are important right? You said before misses and makes were all that mattered and now you don't want to argue eFG? Of course you don't because I just showed you that lebron's eFG is higher than jordan's because lebron has a higher 2ptFG that is masked by the fact that he takes more 3s. Sit down son.

Lebron is the better athlete, better talent, better individual player

But Rose is the better teammate, better leader, better attitude, clutch player and cares about winning more than anything else

I wonder what could have happened if Lebron signed with chicago instead. Would they have the same chemistry they have now?

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Well, if Rose wins MVP your first statement would be patently false.

And Rose and crew beat a "super team" that was destined to win 73 games this season not once, not twice, but three times.

why would you pull me into a Kobe Vs. Lebron debate?

I don't know how that pertains to anything sir.[/QUOTE]

You clearly don't get it do you.

Lebron in his third year averaged like 31 points 7 assist and 7 rebounds on 48% shooting. Add a 50-32 record to that with a team that wasn't even near the level Chicago is right now.

Trolls like PleezeBelieve back then were making threads and trolled hard about how Lerbon is humble, plays hard, is a winner etc etc etc etc.

Now all of a sudden Rose is in his third year and he is better than Lebron because he is humble, and a winner and plays hard.

People judge every player season by season to be honest. Wait until their careers are over, then you can troll about Rose > James.

These stupid trolls will turn on Rose so fast if he is having an off year you would not even imagine. They are no basketball fans, they just have no life.

Look at PleezeBelieve, if he was a true basketball fan he would stop making obsession threads about Lebron James and concentrate on Cleveland. Instead he makes dupe accounts to praise Lebron with them and smash him with the original.