ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #2 Kobe Bryant vs Magic Johnson.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]I don't know. You have to look it up. It isn't an opinion based question.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok. Can you show me the pace average of the 50's, 60's, and 70's ? I can't seem to find them.

Also, I should have asked better, was the 50's, 60, and 70's pace faster than the 80's pace ?

[QUOTE=Nevaeh]Shot selection is still a weakness though. There's no excuse for him to be a 45% career shooter with how much his game is based on the offensive side of the ball.

With Magic, you were NEVER crossing your fingers, hoping and praying he'd make the right decisions with the ball like you would be with Kobe.[/QUOTE]


Uh...did you even watch Magic early in his career??...when he Choked against Boston people were calling him Tragic Magic....

obviously you never watched the Showtime Lakers.....early in his career Magic was not the First option to close out Games...Kareem/Macadoo were relied on more .....magic was the primary Ball handler and would feed the post and facilitate.....

Kobe has been the #1 Option in Crunchtime his whole career.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]Uh...did you even watch Magic early in his career??...when he Choked against Boston people were calling him Tragic Magic....

obviously you never watched the Showtime Lakers.....early in his career Magic was not the First option to close out Games...Kareem/Macadoo were relied on more .....magic was the primary Ball handler and would feed the post and facilitate.....

[B]Kobe has been the #1 Option in Crunchtime his [SIZE="3"]whole career[/SIZE].[/B][/QUOTE]

Dude, you're better when you're just making pretty pictures, cause you obviously do NOT watch NBA Basketball. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Nevaeh]Dude, you're better when you're just making pretty pictures, cause you obviously do NOT watch NBA Basketball. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]


huh?...the only years when you could say he wasn't was 97 - 98...

and even then he was jackin up airball's....

from 99'/00' he has been the #1 option to close games....


apply yourself
















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[quote=AlphaWolf24]Uh...did you even watch Magic early in his career??...when he Choked against Boston people were calling him Tragic Magic....

obviously you never watched the Showtime Lakers.....early in his career Magic was not the First option to close out Games...Kareem/Macadoo were relied on more .....magic was the primary Ball handler and would feed the post and facilitate.....

Kobe has been the #1 Option in Crunchtime[B] his whole career[/B].[/quote]
Yeah, Magic caught a lot of flak for what happened in the 84 Finals. DJ really locked him down in that series.

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119455/index.htm"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119455/index.htm[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y[/URL]

You're wrong on the Kobe thing though.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Oh ok. Can you show me the pace average of the 50's, 60's, and 70's ? I can't seem to find them.

Also, I should have asked better, was the 50's, 60, and 70's pace faster than the 80's pace ?[/QUOTE]

You can get a rough feel for the differences in pace by looking at the avg team points per game in each year


2008-2011 about 100
2005-2008 about 97
2001-2004 about 95

vs


1980-1988 about 109
1989-1991 about 107

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1989.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Doctor Rivers]Yeah, Magic caught a lot of flak for what happened in the 84 Finals. DJ really locked him down in that series.

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119455/index.htm"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119455/index.htm[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y[/URL]

You're wrong on the Kobe thing though.[/QUOTE]

Magic did come back with a vengeance and his record vs Bird in the Finals is 2-1.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQzTCxWpdMM&feature=related[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-fEDLzNUMc&feature=related[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q92n5FcQigA[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAMuXrTegSY[/url]

As great players always do.

[QUOTE=Doctor Rivers]Yeah, Magic caught a lot of flak for what happened in the 84 Finals. DJ really locked him down in that series.

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119455/index.htm"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1119455/index.htm[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y[/URL]

You're wrong on the Kobe thing though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, really locked him down to the tune of 18 points, 8 boards, 14 assists, 2 steals on 56% shooting per game for the series:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Let's see, of the top 25 greatest passing offensive/efficient teams of all-time, Magic Johnson has been on 9 of them. He has been the main assist leader for 7 of them. 5 of these teams are in the Top 10 alone. 2 of them are in Top 3 and which includes the greatest passing offensive/efficient teams of all-time. Here they are:

1984-85 Lakers 118.2 pts [B]31.4ast [/B]54.5%fg (Magic 12.6ast, Cooper 5.2ast) #1 all-time
1982-83 Lakers 115.0 pts [B]30.7ast [/B]52.8%fg (Magic 10.5ast, Nixon 7.2ast) #3 all-time
1983-84 Lakers 115.6 pts [B]29.9ast [/B]53.2%fg (Magic 13.1ast, Cooper 5.9ast) # 6 all-time
1985-86 Lakers 117.3 pts [B]29.7ast [/B]52.2%fg (Magic 12.6ast, Cooper 5.7ast) # 8 all-time
1986-87 Lakers 117.8 pts [B]29.6ast [/B]51.6%fg (Magic 12.2ast, Cooper 4.5ast) # 9 all-time
1979-80 Lakers 115.1 pts [B]29.4ast [/B]52.9%fg (Nixon 7.8ast, Magic 7.3ast) # 12 all-time
1980-81 Lakers 111.2 pts [B]28.8ast [/B]51.2%fg (Nixon 8.8ast, Magic 8.6ast - 37 games) # 17 all-time
1981-82 Lakers 114.6 pts [B]28.7ast [/B]51.7%fg (Magic 9.5ast, Nixon 8.0ast) # 20 all-time
1987-88 Lakers 112.8 pts [B]28.6ast [/B]50.5%fg (Magic 11.9ast, Cooper 4.7ast, Scott 4.1ast) #23 all-time

The 84-85 and 82-83 teams are 2 of 5 teams that have had averaged 30+ assists per game for a season. Magic is responsible for 2 of them, both of which went to the Finals (1-1). Not to mention every single one of those teams hit over 50%.

Magic was a much better offensive player in getting his teams involved than Kobe ever did. How many of Kobe's teams have even come close to that type of ball movement and efficient scoring ? Much better in getting the best out of his teammates. Better creator for his teammates and a high I.Q. on how to get the best out of his teammates on the floor.[/QUOTE]

Good stuff. :cheers:

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Yeah, really locked him down to the tune of 18 points, 8 boards, 14 assists, 2 steals on 56% shooting per game for the series:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

18.0ppg 7.7reb 13.6ast 2.0stl 0.9blk 56%fg 74.4%ft to be exact. And if the Lakers win Game 7, Magic wins Finals MVP.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]Yeah, Nash is a better offensive player than either Magic or Kobe, just look at those offenses he's lead. Superior to both. lolz.

As if Kobe wouldn't lead dominant ( well he already has) offenses with Kareem/Worthy/Cooper/Scott/McAdoo/Thompson/Perkins/Wilkes/etc etc. :lol

Has anyone in history played with as much talent as Magic?

And I love the moronic Kobe wants to for himself line by that idiot Legend.

:roll:[/QUOTE]
Kobe Bryant had the largest increase in playoff defensive quality by raw change, facing defenses 3.2 points stingier than what he saw in the regular season. Only Shaquille O

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]You can get a rough feel for the differences in pace by looking at the avg team points per game in each year


2008-2011 about 100
2005-2008 about 97
2001-2004 about 95

vs


1980-1988 about 109
1989-1991 about 107

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1989.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Magic ran selectively. He was responsible for pace and high quality shots. He ran the most efficient high octane offense the leage ever seen. High quantity and great quality. They employed a slow down game as well for Kareem. The offensive rating of his teams, the high number of assist, the great FG% is a trademark of his presence. This was something he brought to the team. He could control and was responsible for the high quality of one of the best oiled machines in the history of the sport.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Yeah, really locked him down to the tune of 18 points, 8 boards, 14 assists, 2 steals on 56% shooting per game for the series:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

Eh...I suppose not, but he definitely contributed to the critical errors he made in the Finals

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Magic did come back with a vengeance and his record vs Bird in the Finals is 2-1.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQzTCxWpdMM&feature=related[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-fEDLzNUMc&feature=related[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q92n5FcQigA[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAMuXrTegSY[/url]

As great players always do.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

duh

[B]Magic[/B]


He was the face of the Lakers. He was more efficient on the offensive end, made others around him better, better rebounder, better ball handler, made much smarter decisions with the basketball, and completely took over the team once Kareem aged and Riley told him he had to.

Kobe, although he too has 5 rings, only has 2 as the big dog. He's obviously the better scorer, but he does make some questionable decisions with the ball. His D is better, but his 25-30 PPG, his very average shooting percentage, and his choices do not put him above Magic