Big Market Team Fallacy

[QUOTE=Rab]That wasn't an issue back then. This is the trend that is happening now, and that small market teams are wanting to prevent.

Melo used the leverage. The Jazz traded D-Will before he could use that leverage against them. We saw what the Heat did. Of course, Miami isn't a large market, but there is a market appeal there. Howard has announced there is already a pretty good chance he'll bounce, and you know it won't be to the Bucks or Cavs. We'll see how it plays out with D-Will, Howard, and Paul this year, but in my opinion, they're cut from the same cloth as LeBron, Bosh, Wade, and Melo.

I think you can absolutely use Amar'e in this scenario. The Suns simply didn't want to guarantee that kind of money over that many years to him because of the fear it would cripple the franchise. The appeal of NY and the financial flexibility NY had were certainly an appeal to him.

Booz I agree you can't use because the Jazz didn't want him back anyway[/QUOTE]

So the trend is maybe Howard. D.Will and Paul wil lgoto a big market and the Knicks were willing to risk more than the Suns. That's the trend. After 13 years of players basically staying home and Nash choosing Phx over dall, you've got 3 maybe's, 1 guy taking more money, and 2 players wanting warm weather.

Not buying it as a trend.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]
if some of those guys were on bigger market teams, more resources would have been spent on getting in quality players with the chances of an elite free agent actually wanting to play there. if bosh had been on the knicks, people would have wanted to go join him in NY.....nobody was thinking about joining bosh in Toronto.

Wonder why....[/QUOTE]

Cause Cleve didn't spend while LBJ was there.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]Cause Cleve didn't spend while LBJ was there.[/QUOTE]
Huge Larry Hughes contract, $20 mill on Shaq. They consistently had a huge payroll when LeBron was there.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]of course. but that is part of the issue. if teams with more resources and a desirable location miss in the draft, they can buy players. look at what cuban has done. he got dirk in the draft and then basically has bought every player we've gotten since.

if some of those guys were on bigger market teams, more resources would have been spent on getting in quality players with the chances of an elite free agent actually wanting to play there. if bosh had been on the knicks, people would have wanted to go join him in NY.....nobody was thinking about joining bosh in Toronto.

Wonder why....[/QUOTE]

So now it's not, a big market team can buy any player it wants, but a big market team can buy any player it wants AFTER it drafts a superstar? I really really would like to know how anyone can insist on believing in this nonsense.

[QUOTE=Rab]Huge Larry Hughes contract, $20 mill on Shaq. They consistently had a huge payroll when LeBron was there.[/QUOTE]

Now how did a small market team do that, in spite of this overwhelming financial disadvantage?

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]of course. but that is part of the issue. if teams with more resources and a desirable location miss in the draft, they can buy players. look at what cuban has done. he got dirk in the draft and then basically has bought every player we've gotten since.

if some of those guys were on bigger market teams, more resources would have been spent on getting in quality players with the chances of an elite free agent actually wanting to play there. if bosh had been on the knicks, people would have wanted to go join him in NY.....nobody was thinking about joining bosh in Toronto.

Wonder why....[/QUOTE]

Now I do agree that there needs to be a cap set on how ridiculous the spending can get. I don't think the Lakers or the Mavs' model should be allowed. At some point, spending has to be stopped. Teams shouldn't just be allowed to add salary upon salary every year. That isn't fair either.

See, the difference is that the owners seem to have wanted or do want a system that completely tears down the old one and replaces it with a very restrictive one. I just think the current one needs to be tinkered with, not completely rebuilt. If owners like Cuban want to spend, they should be able to. There also should be a limit other than a simple luxury tax.

[QUOTE=Kevin_Gamble]And now that Rick Fox and Shaq have become huge Hollywood stars every single NBA player wants to move to LA. I guess that's a fact in this fantasy world where Miami is a glamorous international city on par with NY and London, and big market teams are signing every single basketball player under the sun.[/QUOTE]

Actually Miami is very much a top destination for the rich famous and powerful

[QUOTE]Miami is a major center and a leader in finance, commerce, culture, media, entertainment, the arts, and international trade.[13][14] In 2010, Miami ranked seventh in the United States in terms of finance, commerce, culture, entertainment, fashion, education, and other sectors. It ranked thirty-third among global cities.[15] In 2008, Forbes magazine ranked Miami "America's Cleanest City", for its year-round good air quality, vast green spaces, clean drinking water, clean streets and city-wide recycling programs.[16] According to a 2009 UBS study of 73 world cities, Miami was ranked as the richest city in the United States, and the world's fifth-richest city in terms of purchasing power.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami[/url]


oh look number 3 on the list
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2011/06/24/top-10-glamorous-list-destinations/[/url]

Oh yeah Ron Artest and Lamar Odom among others say hi from Hollywood

[QUOTE=Kevin_Gamble]Now how did a small market team do that, in spite of this overwhelming financial disadvantage?[/QUOTE]
I've said this before. Small market teams can do it for short periods of time, but as was seen in Cleveland, they paid extreme amounts of money for bad talent for fear of LeBron walking, and it left them in shambles. Same thing will happen in Orlando.

Some of you may enjoy this. Couldn't resist with the title of the thread -

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhUNrpX8Rx4[/url]

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]Cause Cleve didn't spend while LBJ was there.[/QUOTE]

What? They consistently spent money...they just made poor decisions and could never seem to quite get that other secondary player.

Gilbert spent a lot of money on those teams.

[QUOTE=Rab]I've said this before. Small market teams can do it for short periods of time, but as was seen in Cleveland, they paid extreme amounts of money for bad talent for fear of LeBron walking, and it left them in shambles. Same thing will happen in Orlando.[/QUOTE] Good point. What you're saying is teams with more access to cash from being in a more attractive market place can reload faster.

[QUOTE=Kevin_Gamble]So now it's not, a big market team can buy any player it wants, but a big market team can buy any player it wants AFTER it drafts a superstar? I really really would like to know how anyone can insist on believing in this nonsense.[/QUOTE]

i honestly don't know what to tell you. if you have more money and a desirable franchise/location....if you miss in the draft...you can recover more quickly.

just like if you hit in the draft...you can build around them more easily. it doesn't mean every time...but the resources and advantages are there to build a better team.

everyone keeps using the spurs as the small market example. but what if duncan had gone to the celtics instead. and then the celtics find a way to surround duncan with better teams than the spurs did at times. maybe duncan wins 7 titles. who knows....but its possible given their desirable franchise and ability to spend more.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]i honestly don't know what to tell you. if you have more money and a desirable franchise/location....if you miss in the draft...you can recover more quickly.

just like if you hit in the draft...you can build around them more easily. it doesn't mean every time...but the resources and advantages are there to build a better team.

everyone keeps using the spurs as the small market example. but what if duncan had gone to the celtics instead. and then the celtics find a way to surround duncan with better teams than the spurs did at times. maybe duncan wins 7 titles. who knows....but its possible given their desirable franchise and ability to spend more.[/QUOTE]
Remember you're arguing with a guy who says it's not the fans that pays the players salaries because once you spend the money on tickets or NBA gear it's not yours anymore.
:roll:

[url]http://wagesofwins.net/2011/08/10/nba-owners-do-not-understand-competitive-balance/[/url]

[QUOTE]NBA Owners Do Not Understand Competitive Balance
Posted on August 10, 2011 by dberri 27

In the July 25th edition of Sports Illustrated we saw the following statement (from a story about Derek Fisher and the NBA labor dispute):
The league contends that owners and players together will grow financially and thrive in competitive balance as long as the richest teams aren

Of course crap teams will have lower payroll... once a season starts going bad, they'll start trading their high-priced assets for future picks and cap relief... whil the good teams absorb the money to get a little better before playoff time.

It has nothing to do with market size.