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He deserved it that year, happened to be the best player in his team which had the best record... he was my pick for MVP, but i just think he got perhaps a bit to much credit for what was happening with the Bulls that year, he played a big part but the key to their success was defense, they won mostly because of their defense (and they still do) and Rose didnt have much to do at that end of the court...
[QUOTE=pauk]He deserved it that year, happened to be the best player in his team which had the best record... he was my pick for MVP, but i just think he got perhaps a bit to much credit for what was happening with the Bulls that year, he played a big part but the key to their success was defense, they won mostly because of their defense (and they still do) and Rose didnt have much to do at that end of the court...[/QUOTE]
point guards have the least role on team defense. individual defense, rose is pretty good.
the bulls are not really "winning" without rose. sure they are above average team, they have above average players and above average coach, but they are not even contenders to make it to the ecf without rose. i dont consider that "winning". even look at these stats on how derrick rose transforms the team.
the bulls records against the top 8 teams in the league for 3 seasons one with a healthy rose, one with a semi healthy rose, and one with no rose.
2010-2011 (healthy rose)
14-7
2011-2012 (semi healthy rose)
9-6
2012-2013 (no rose , havent been updated for a few games)
5-12
[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]Idk how you dont think you're being overenthusiastic in this thread.
Some of the bolded is irrelevant to the MVP it only makes him the best PG. The rest has to do with his team, specifically it's great D that Rose wasn't exactly a part of. All I'm saying is Dwight didn't have the benefit of great team D, he was the defense. Also, he was double or triple teamed all the time no matter what and he still dominated. I just think the MVP should include both sides of the court.
Edit: If it makes a difference, I think the gap between them is negligible and that he's a strong number two candidate with no else really close[/QUOTE]
Dwight had a team that stayed within 2 games of first place til march. He had a team built around him. Then the Lebron reality happened, and management correctly figured this team didn't have enough guts. It was reflective of their leader and DH has had severe leadership issues for the last three years.
When I talk about Rose accomplishments above and his defensive impact you are acting like you don't get it. One of the best perimeter defenses, him being the best back court defender on the team, him shutting down Wade, top shot blocker among guards, him shutting down the elite at his position the whole year! The whole Rose lacked defense thing was crap.
If I do a short post you would never understand.
[QUOTE=Owl]1) Where is it said Paul should be MVP? Nowhere, only that he was better than Rose. [/quote]
In 2011? In what imaginable way?
[quote]
2) Why switch years for Paul its irrelevent? You do it so you can frame the Clippers as a superteam using hearsay and vague, unproven or irrelvent statements (Clippers were "more athletic" but their superathletic bigs can't defend and DeAndre's court IQ is so low that his athleticism is largely wasted). The comparison of supporting casts is vague and imprecise but if you want to do it at least compare it for that year. Paul dragged 70 games of David West, 72 of Okafor and whole bag of nothing into the playoffs.
Or we could do it more precisely. And even those metrics which favour usage (PER) suggest Paul was better. And most metrics can't factor in Paul's edge at the defensive end. [/quote]
Before cp's arrival Dj was considered a top center prospect with great instincts. BG was considered the top prospect at power forward period. Last year was a catastrophe. I never heard anything about DJs IQ being low before last year.
[quote]
3) You're framing Thibideau as a negative for Rose? This terrible "new coach" forcing his "new system" on him. Poor Derrick Rose.[/quote]
Please see what new system did for Lebron, Wade, Kobe, DH, Nash, Paul, Mello and then you might understand what I'm saying.
[quote]
4) If you want to credit the Bull's wins to "insistent play and leadership" fine. I'll go with their having the league's best defense. [/quote]
Miami and the Bucks had great defenses that year. Miami also had two great offensive players that year...
[QUOTE=poido123]Then question the award system, not the player who was awarded MVP.[/QUOTE]
why do you even debate this guy? hes an idiot.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]WOW, you really don't know how things work.
A. Rose is the teams main offensive player. When he is not on the floor, the team has to shut down the other team to compete. Its absolutely critical. Because Rose was depended upon more so for creativity than any other superstar for their teams (Dirk, DH, Wade, Lebron, Kobe). This is a huge argument for Rose as MVP as well.
B. But to suggest that the Bulls second team was better defensively is to miss and incredibly humongous [B]METRIC[/B]. They are defending second teamers and not first teamers! Rose shutting down Rondo, Dwill, Nash, Jennings, Tyreke, Parker, CP3 and we are comparing that to CJ Watkins holding down bench players is not only absurd, it misses common sense at the most obvious levels.
C. You also miss the fact that Thibes put Rose on Wade in the playoffs in the fourth quarter above all other guards. Please show me the metric that shows a SG that held a healthy Wade down in the playoffs like Rose did. Here is a team that has two players at SG whose main function is defense but Thibes, a defensive genuis, takes Rose off of his natural position to guard Wade.
D. You think Chicago was a top perimeter defensive team because of it's bench play of 14 minutes a game?
E. Stats just ain't were its at. Something is very, very wrong with the metric.[/QUOTE]
I am embarrassed to have crafted such a time consuming response to a 7th graders post.
[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]
2012-2013 (no rose , havent been updated for a few games)
5-12[/QUOTE]
Hasn't been updated indeed. They were a second round team after a mountain of injuries, going well beyond DRose's
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]I am embarrassed to have crafted such a time consuming response to a 7th graders post.[/QUOTE]
Ugh you quoted my post.
You erroneously used a metric to measure the teams defense when Rose sat down and CJ Watkins came in. Nothing wrong with the metric: you just made a very big oversight. Holding Rondo to five points in 38 minutes is much more impressive than holding John Doe to no points in 12 no matter how you slice it. If it takes a 7th grader or Buddha to tell you it doesn't matter. You didn't fool anybody. You made a mistake, we all do it.
Lebrons award. Derrick Rose shouldn't even finished in top 5.:oldlol:
[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]Hasn't been updated indeed. They were a second round team after a mountain of injuries, going well beyond DRose's[/QUOTE]
actually, there were only like 3 more games after that and i think it was 2-1 so it would have been 7-13. which is still ridiculous compared to 14-7 with rose. so "indeed", rose makes the bulls a contender and without rose they are not winning anything.
[QUOTE=Dionysus]Lebrons award. Derrick Rose shouldn't even finished in top 5.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
nobody has answered me yet, how do you win an mvp when your team has a losing record against elite teams.:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]nobody has answered me yet, how do you win an mvp when your team has a losing record against elite teams.:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
LeBron superior numbers vs Rose low iq numbers
LeBron was the best player, the better player, the superior. LeBron also was the sole reason the Heat was good. Also who led the league in Win Shares? Yup you guessed it, LeBron King James.
[QUOTE=Dionysus]LeBron superior numbers vs Rose low iq numbers
LeBron was the best player, the better player, the superior. LeBron also was the sole reason the Heat was good. Also who led the league in Win Shares? Yup you guessed it, LeBron King James.[/QUOTE]
superior numbers like rose winning 14-7 against the top 8 teams in the league and lebron winning 7-11. rose even won there last 12 straight. while lebron lost most of the last 9. yea reread that.
rose even scoring more with 28 points. i dont even take you idiots seriously anymore. i mean your clearly not even here to discuss basketball when you start off your statement "roses low iq basketball"
[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3483640/lebron-passes-again-o.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3483635/derrick-rose-sixers-o.gif[/IMG]
but but lebron is more efficient because haslem has a greater chance to make that shot than he would.
It's hilarious when people use team stats to prop up one player. ****ing idiots.
[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]It's hilarious when people use team stats to prop up one player. ****ing idiots.[/QUOTE]
i understand why you would think so when you are a kyrie fan:roll: