Where would you put LeBron James on the all time list? Honest answers, please.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]Among those players you list "ahead" of Lebron:

only 3 have more Mvp awards

only 1, probably 2 have more Finals Mvps(counting if Russell had been eligible his entire career)

only 6 guys have more rings (half of that 6 got privilege of playing with another player from the list)

only 3 have scored more points

only 1 has more assists

only 7 have more rebounds

none have scored more postseason points

1 has more playoff assists

5 have more playoff rebounds

only 2 have ever posted a higher PER

best elimination game player to ever walk the earth

only player to ever lead a series in all statistical categories and it was the finals to boot.

NONE have ever defeated a 70 win team for a title

i just stuck to hard facts and stayed away from the subjective aspects. there's literally a ton of things you can add like triple doubles, or more subjective things like offensive and defensive peak etc. Too much evidence to the contrary of what you want to put out there.[/QUOTE]
Lebron has led the league ONE TIME in something; basically never been the best at anything

So it's disingenuous to use career totals, which are heavily influenced by how long they played

The other stuff is random stuff, where other players have their areas of advantage too.. so Da Realist was spot-on

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]Among those players you list "ahead" of Lebron:

only 3 have more Mvp awards

only 1, probably 2 have more Finals Mvps(counting if Russell had been eligible his entire career)

only 6 guys have more rings (half of that 6 got privilege of playing with another player from the list)

only 3 have scored more points

only 1 has more assists

only 7 have more rebounds

none have scored more postseason points

1 has more playoff assists

5 have more playoff rebounds

only 2 have ever posted a higher PER

best elimination game player to ever walk the earth

only player to ever lead a series in all statistical categories and it was the finals to boot.

NONE have ever defeated a 70 win team for a title

i just stuck to hard facts and stayed away from the subjective aspects. there's literally a ton of things you can add like triple doubles, or more subjective things like offensive and defensive peak etc. Too much evidence to the contrary of what you want to put out there.[/QUOTE]

So? Stats change depending on context. Basketball is not a math equation. Allow David Robinson to join the Seattle Supersonics in his prime and they'd destroy the league. He wouldn't need to beat a 70 win team, his team would [I]be[/I] the 70 win team. But that's not enough. Let's say some team beats them after they dominate a few years... David would now be allowed to join any team of his choosing with a front office that would move heaven and earth to place the perfect team around him. He'd win even more. Allow him to do it AGAIN after that team wears itself down.

He would have a different career, a dynasty, more rings and he'd put up Wilt-like numbers. His numbers would change, but he would be the exact same player he always was.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]So? Stats change depending on context. Basketball is not a math equation. Allow David Robinson to join the Seattle Supersonics in his prime and they'd destroy the league. He wouldn't need to beat a 70 win team, his team would [I]be[/I] the 70 win team. But that's not enough. Let's say some team beats them after they dominate a few years... David would now be allowed to join any team of his choosing with a front office that would move heaven and earth to place the perfect team around him. He'd win even more. Allow him to do it AGAIN after that team wears itself down.

He would have a different career, a dynasty, more rings and he'd put up Wilt-like numbers. His numbers would change, but he would be the exact same player he always was.[/QUOTE]

Would he also destroy the league if Payton's knees were shot and if Kemp was too much of a ***** to be physical and decided to stay on the perimeter instead?

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]MJ, [B]Magic[/B], [B]Bird[/B], Kareem, [B]Wilt[/B], [B]Russell[/B], Shaq, [B]Olajuwon[/B], [B]Duncan [/B]are the guys I'd take over LeBron without thinking about it at all. [/quote]
:roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Guys like Oscar, Kobe, David Robinson, Isiah Thomas, Jerry West are all in the same vicinity.[/quote]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Are you on literally all the drugs in the world right now? Ignoring the others, Isiah is in the vicinity of LeBron? That makes as much sense as Harden being in MJ's vicinity.


[QUOTE=Da_Realist]I don't put much stock in today's stats because the league is soft.[/quote]

LeBron as a 18 year old rookie was dropping 21/6/6/2/1 in 2004 before all the rule changes. At 19, he was dropping 27/7/7/2/1 in his second season. Lets not act like

[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron has led the league ONE TIME in something; basically never been the best at anything

So it's disingenuous to use career totals, which are heavily influenced by how long they played

The other stuff is random stuff, where other players have their areas of advantage too.. so Da Realist was spot-on[/QUOTE]
So goat isn't about a player's complete body of work? Since when? And you just got a skewed view of everything, it's not a negative to not lead anything when you've been great at everything at some point or another. Swiss army knives aren't meant to be the best tool for one thing. It's all about utility, I'm sure that will shoot over your head like a fadeaway though.

not top 15 for me. He's number 17 or 18 to me so far. Probaly even lower... I have to redo my list.:applause:

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]So? Stats change depending on context. Basketball is not a math equation. Allow David Robinson to join the Seattle Supersonics in his prime and they'd destroy the league. He wouldn't need to beat a 70 win team, his team would [I]be[/I] the 70 win team. But that's not enough. Let's say some team beats them after they dominate a few years... David would now be allowed to join any team of his choosing with a front office that would move heaven and earth to place the perfect team around him. He'd win even more. Allow him to do it AGAIN after that team wears itself down.

He would have a different career, a dynasty, more rings and he'd put up Wilt-like numbers. His numbers would change, but he would be the exact same player he always was.[/QUOTE]
no, not just stats man. Accolades were actually at the forefront of my post. If, If, If. Let's say the Cavs organization were able to put a true contender around Lebron his 1st stint, as well as an alltime great coach and another top 20 all time player as his 2nd mate oh and lets not forget a squad that can win 55 games without him....wouldn't his career look different too? That's why i steered clear of subjective stuff purposely anyone can play the if game bro.

[QUOTE=Real14]not top 15 for me. He's number 17 or 18 to me so far. Probaly even lower... I have to redo my list.:applause:[/QUOTE]
good thing nobody gives a damn what you think here:oldlol:

[QUOTE=aj1987]Would he also destroy the league if Payton's knees were shot and if Kemp was too much of a ***** to be physical and decided to stay on the perimeter instead?[/QUOTE]

I don't think that was the case. They moved to the perimeter by necessity to allow more spacing for LeBron to operate. Pre-injury we saw it with Kevin Love who was getting way more touches in the paint than he did at any point in Cleveland, closer to what he was doing in Minnesota

Bosh we know did play more in the paint pre-LeBron so I dont know if it makes much sense to say he just suddenly became a *****. It's more likely that he was asked to stretch the floor instead of crowd the lane and that adjustment stuck with him, unlike Love who went back to getting more paint touches

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]no, not just stats man. Accolades were actually at the forefront of my post. If, If, If. Let's say the Cavs organization were able to put a true contender around Lebron his 1st stint, as well as an alltime great coach and another top 20 all time player as his 2nd mate oh and lets not forget a squad that can win 55 games without him....wouldn't his career look different too? That's why i steered clear of subjective stuff purposely anyone can play the if game bro.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Lebron could play for an all-time coach or be able to plug his talents into a system or ever develop a team that could be good without him. Those are some of the reasons I don't have him in my top 5.

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]I don't think Lebron could play for an all-time coach or be able to plug his talents into a system or ever develop a team that could be good without him. Those are some of the reasons I don't have him in my top 5.[/QUOTE]
and that's an opinion without much to back it up so rightfully so you'll be questioned. Irrational thought.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Are you on literally all the drugs in the world right now? Ignoring the others, Isiah is in the vicinity of LeBron? That makes as much sense as Harden being in MJ's vicinity.[/QUOTE]

Isiah led his team to two titles in perhaps the league's toughest conference ever and having to beat all time great teams led by all time greats Bird and Magic while holding off a soon-to-be all time great Bulls dynasty led by GOAT MJ.

Not the same as beating John Wall and Kyle Lowry every year. Give Isiah the same license LeBron has... let him join up with his superfriends after Detroit goes down. Let him join Cleveland and allow him to recruit Barkley, they'd be a problem. This is what LeBron has been getting away with.

Da_Realist is literally on bath salts.

I don't have any other conclusion. That man has gone beyond lol

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]good thing nobody gives a damn what you think here:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
N.igga please!:biggums: I'm a ISH legend around here, u butthurt salty bitch:lol

[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Isiah led his team to two titles in perhaps the league's toughest conference ever and having to beat all time great teams led by all time greats Bird and Magic while holding off a soon-to-be all time great Bulls dynasty led by GOAT MJ.

Not the same as beating John Wall and Kyle Lowry every year. Give Isiah the same license LeBron has... let him join up with his superfriends after Detroit goes down. Let him join Cleveland and allow him to recruit Barkley, they'd be a problem. This is what LeBron has been getting away with.[/QUOTE]
That's right! Preach to these young na

[QUOTE=Real14]N.igga please!:biggums: I'm a ISH legend around here, u butthurt salty bitch:lol[/QUOTE]
no such thing as a legendary hater bro :oldlol: and nah no salt here im actualy glad to see people debating with fleshed out posts instead of stupid one liner catchphrases "legends" are known for.