[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]How many rings for Jordan before Pippen?[/QUOTE]
Brutal.
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[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]How many rings for Jordan before Pippen?[/QUOTE]
Brutal.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]How many rings for Jordan before Pippen?[/QUOTE]
Bosh/Wade > Pippen
Heck, just Wade > Pippen
.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Oh, Jordan was checking to see if Parish, after TWENTY tears in the league and a HOF career, wasn't soft? GTFO :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
MJ had never played with Parish before
For all he knew, Bird/McHale/DJ were carrying his soft ass
[QUOTE=3ball]Isn't that what happened to Lebron after teaming up with them?
How many rings for Lebron before Bosh?[/QUOTE]
You mean when he had quality players around him he actually won and when he didn't he lost? Well, damn. LeBron wasn't lucky enough enough like MJ to have a top 30 all time player drafted to his team.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]You mean when he had quality players around him he actually won and when he didn't he lost? Well, damn. LeBron wasn't lucky enough enough like MJ to have a top 30 all time player drafted to his team.[/QUOTE]
Mo Williams was just as good as Pippen on offense.
:yaohappy:
He actually implied that. Not joking.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]
You mean when he had quality players around him he actually won and when he didn't he lost? Well, damn. LeBron wasn't lucky enough enough like MJ to have a top 30 all time player drafted to his team
[/QUOTE]
Lebron lost with 27 ppg Wade and 29 ppg Kyrie, while the best Pippen-help that MJ lost with was 19 on 41% in 95' ECSF (baseball year)...
Or 16 on 42% in 90' ECF (migraine)...
MJ simply won with way the f.uck less...
And the best Pippen help that MJ lost with OUTSIDE of the baseball year and migraine debacle is losing with Pippen's 10 ppg in 88' and 89' playoffs... :eek: ..
Lebron is nowhere near MJ and needed far more help to win, because his narrower skillset (ball-domination) results in weaker teams (less ball movement and teammates playing below capacity/spot-up shooters)
[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron lost with 27 ppg Wade and 29 ppg Kyrie, while the best Pippen-help that MJ lost with was 19 on 41% in 95' ECSF (baseball year)...
Or 16 on 42% in 90' ECF (migraine)...
MJ simply won with way the f.uck less...
And the best Pippen help that MJ lost with OUTSIDE of the baseball year and migraine debacle is losing with Pippen's 10 ppg in 88' and 89' playoffs... :eek: ..
Lebron is nowhere near MJ and needed far more help to win, because his narrower skillset (ball-domination) results in weaker teams (less ball movement and teammates playing below capacity/spot-up shooters)[/QUOTE]
Yawn. You are like a child the way you argue. I sometimes wonder if you actually even watched these Bulls series you go on about considering all your talking points revolve around ppg and fg%. Anyone who actually watched the Bulls play knows how big of an impact Pippen was having regardless if he was scoring a lot of points or not. Take 95 for instance, Pippen was a top defensive player in the entire league regardless of position (easily the best defensive player 1-4), but none of that matters apparently. All that matters is he scored 19ppg.
[QUOTE=3ball]..
Lebron is nowhere near MJ and needed far more help to win, because his narrower skillset (ball-domination) results in [B]weaker teams[/B] (less ball movement and teammates playing below capacity/spot-up shooters)[/QUOTE] Weaker teams? Miami had 66 wins. ''Ball domination'' is a myth. Beta.
[QUOTE=RRR3]Mo Williams was just as good as Pippen on offense.
:yaohappy:
He actually implied that. Not joking.[/QUOTE]
[B]I didn't imply shit - I informed you of the historical record that 09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen:[/B]
[I]09' Mo Will RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]89' Pippen RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp
[I]09' Mo Will ECF[/I]:[COLOR="White"].ni[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
[I]89' Pippen 1st Rd[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat [COLOR="White"]'o[/COLOR] #1 SRS (3 all-stars[SIZE="3"]*[/SIZE])
[I]* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper[/I]
[B]Looks like Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. :confusedshrug:
Mo was also better than 19' Middleton:[/B]
[I]MO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] WILLIAMS[COLOR="White"]....[/COlor][/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]KHRIS MIDDLETON[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp
[QUOTE=3ball]I didn't imply shit - I informed you of the historical record that 09' Mo was far[B] better than[/B] 89' Pippen
[/QUOTE]
3ball lying once again. Mo Willaims had 13.2 pts, 2.8 TRB, 4.9 ASTS, and worse shooting percentages. Pippen had 16.1 pts, 6.4 TRB, 5.2 ASTS. And better percentages.
Conclusion: Pippen is better career-wise.
[B]Beta.[/B] :lol
[QUOTE=3ball][B]I didn't imply shit - I informed you of the historical record that 09' Mo was far better than 89' Pippen:[/B]
[I]09' Mo Will RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]89' Pippen RS[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp
[I]09' Mo Will ECF[/I]:[COLOR="White"].ni[/COLOR] 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
[I]89' Pippen 1st Rd[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. beat [COLOR="White"]'o[/COLOR] #1 SRS (3 all-stars[SIZE="3"]*[/SIZE])
[I]* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper[/I]
[B]Looks like Lebron had the far better cast but lost to a worse team than MJ defeated in 89'.. :confusedshrug:
Mo was also better than 19' Middleton:[/B]
[I]MO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] WILLIAMS[COLOR="White"]....[/COlor][/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/3/5.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ortg.. 17.2 PER.. 0.165 ws.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
[I]KHRIS MIDDLETON[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 18/5/3.. 55.5 ts.. 106 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.122 ws.. 0.7 bpm.. 1.6 vorp[/QUOTE]
Then you bring up dumb shit like this. Who cares about the 89 Bulls or an 89 Pippen? Nobody says he was a star. The fact that you are trying to compare an 89 Pippen to the best Mo Williams shows how much better Pippen was than him when the Bulls were winning championships, though. So good job. That the 89 Cavs underachieved doesn't really say anything in regards to winning with less or more. This is an indictment on the Cavs.
[QUOTE]3ball lying once again. Mo Willaims had 13.2 pts, 2.8 TRB, 4.9 ASTS, and worse shooting percentages. Pippen had 16.1 pts, 6.4 TRB, 5.2 ASTS. And better percentages.
Conclusion: Pippen is better career-wise.
[B]Beta.[/B] :lol[/QUOTE] Ether.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Klay put up 22, 20, and 21 a game on teams that scored 116 to 119ppg. The Heat by 2012 were doing 98.5ppg....as one of the top scoring teams in the league. When they did 102 it was 5th in the league. The slowest pace team in the NBA last year did 105ppg. Obviously in todays league the extra scoring would give Bosh a chance to go from 16-19 to 19-22....playing the exact same way.
Thats what seem to be ignoring here. ALL the bigtime scoring 3rd options were in eras where 110-125ppg wasnt uncommon. Defensive eras never allowed such a thing. In the league the Heat were in(which wasnt great on D itself compared to the era before) a big 3 wouldnt score like that. Ray Allen.....generally considered the least of the big 3? Went from a career high 26ppg all the way to 17 in 2008. Pierce went from 25 to 20. KG 22 to 19. Responsibility, plays run for you, and often minutes reduce on talented teams....
Nobody should be surprised a 3rd option isnt doing huge numbers in leagues that dont have 125ppg teams....nor should we be surprised guys dont do 20ppg in 28 minutes a game like Love. Why would he do superstar numbers in 28-32 minutes as a sidekick or 3rd option when he played 36-39 as the only star to get the numbers before?
I just feel like if some of you didnt muddy your thought process with Lebron you wouldnt think any of this was odd.[/QUOTE]
The point isn't really the ppg but how efficient the offense is overall. Warriors were BETTER than their 73-9 team on offense with KD in 2017 and 2019.
Pierce, Ray and KG took less shots together than when they were on mediocre teams as first options but their efficiency went way up compared to their previous year.
You can talk about volume all your want in terms of 3rd option putting up a certain amount of points but my argument was that Thompson's numbers stayed the same/increased with GS adding a superstar 25-30 ppg scorer, whereas Bosh and Love saw a significant decline in their production.
Lebron's ball-dominant playing style doesn't allow for other players to eat as much. He does well enough with a star guard as a 1st/2nd option but he's never really made any bigs better than they were prior to joining him. We'll see if he's willing to let Davis dominate the ball like he should at his peak.
[QUOTE]3ball lying once again. Mo Willaims had 13.2 pts, 2.8 TRB, 4.9 ASTS, and worse shooting percentages. Pippen had 16.1 pts, 6.4 TRB, 5.2 ASTS. And better percentages.
Conclusion: Pippen is better career-wise.
[B]Beta.[/B] :lol[/QUOTE]
ETHER :roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=ImKobe]
Lebron's ball-dominant playing style doesn't allow for other players to eat as much. He does well enough with a star guard as a 1st/2nd option but he's never really made any bigs better than they were prior to joining him. We'll see if he's willing to let Davis dominate the ball like he should at his peak.[/QUOTE]
Anthony Davis doesn't need to dominate the ball. That's not his game. Sixty two percent of his shots were assisted on this past season and 69% are assisted on for his career. He's not going to dominate the ball for the simple reason that, that isn't his game. Davis is a great star to team up with LeBron for this reason. He's going to get a lot of easy buckets off LeBron's playmaking.