Official MLB 2021 season thread...

[QUOTE=imdaman99;14436909][B]I would much rather have Vlad Jr than Ohtani 100%[/B]. Sure Ohtani is hella marketable, a lot more than his teammate Trout...but imagine thinking someone winning the triple crown as well as leading his team to the playoffs is not enough just because the other guy can pitch 100mph. Not to mention Ohtani is not on a winning team but I know that means nothing for MVP as Trout would win every year on a bad team.[/QUOTE]

Why? Lets assume Ohtani can even remotely keep up what he's doing: Ordinally you go out and pay for an impact power hitter. Then you go out and pay for a #1-2 starter.

This dude is literally both. Not only is that crazy in theory..but you only have to pay one guy to do two important jobs.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14437083]Yes.

.972 OPS for a guy who starts every 6 days...and has a 3.36 ERA in the American league. Ohtani could not play another inning this year and he's still the shoe-in MVP.

It's not just that he can pitch. It's that he pitches [I]well [/I], and consistently. This is not some dude who throws 100 and comes in to either walk or strike people out in the 8th inning of a blowout to get the fans and media riled up.

He's the teams number one starter..

And he has 23 steals too. And is almost 2 wins more valuable if you like WAR.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

You people are solely basing this on his ability to pitch. I'm sure if Vlad wanted to pitch, he could pitch. Overlooking Vlad's stats and how superior they are to Ohtani's, the only argument you guys are making is..."well, he can pitch too". That's not gonna cut it.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14437285]:roll:

You people are solely basing this on his ability to pitch. I'm sure if Vlad wanted to pitch, he could pitch. Overlooking Vlad's stats and how superior they are to Ohtani's, the only argument you guys are making is..."well, he can pitch too". That's not gonna cut it.[/QUOTE]

So is your argument that pitching is easy?

Vladdy, a guy who can barely play left field, could just go out and be a #1 starter if he wanted to? While being just as effective offensively?

Are you listening to yourself...

Being a starting pitcher (much less a frontline one) is not like defense in basketball :lol

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14437417]So is your argument that pitching is easy?

Vladdy, a guy who can barely play left field, could just go out and be a #1 starter if he wanted to? While being just as effective offensively?

Are you listening to yourself...

Being a starting pitcher (much less a frontline one) is not like defense in basketball :lol[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying that pitching is easy. You're moving the goals posts, so I'll reiterate again for those in the back of the class. I'm saying that you're disqualifying Vlad's numbers, solely based on the fact that Ohtani can pitch. You're telling us that because Ohtani can pitch and pitch well, that this automatically makes him the favorite to win MVP despite him having inferior batting numbers.

I would argue that if Ohtani's batting numbers were similar to or if not better then Vlad's, then you have a legitimate case to say Ohtani is the best player in the league. But right now, with his abysmal average, and the fact that Vlad has surpassed him in Homeruns, RBI's, XBH's, Slugging, OBP, OPS, and leads the league in those aforementioned categories, how in the hell can one make the argument that Ohtani is the MVP this year??

Oh, [B][U][SIZE=4]he also has 70 less strikeouts while even having 63 more AB's[/SIZE][/U][/B] than Ohtani! The case is closed, friend. Vlad Guerrero Jr. is the AL MVP.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14437665]I'm not saying that pitching is easy. You're moving the goals posts, so I'll reiterate again for those in the back of the class. [B]I'm saying that you're disqualifying Vlad's numbers, solely based on the fact that Ohtani can pitch[/B]. You're telling us that because Ohtani can pitch and pitch well, that this automatically makes him the favorite to win MVP despite him having inferior batting numbers.

I would argue that if Ohtani's batting numbers were similar to or if not better then Vlad's, then you have a legitimate case to say Ohtani is the best player in the league. But right now, with his abysmal average, and the fact that Vlad has surpassed him in Homeruns, RBI's, XBH's, Slugging, OBP, OPS, and leads the league in those aforementioned categories, how in the hell can one make the argument that Ohtani is the MVP this year??

Oh, [B][U][SIZE=4]he also has 70 less strikeouts while even having 63 more AB's[/SIZE][/U][/B] than Ohtani! The case is closed, friend. Vlad Guerrero Jr. is the AL MVP.[/QUOTE]

That's not even REMOTELY what's happening. That fvck are you even talking about :lol

Why do you keep talking about average? For starters, .260 is not abysmal by any stretch. Second, Ohtani is 5th in major league baseball in OPS. [B][U]FIFTH[/U][/B]. .965. That's elite...

Guerrero has been better by 46 OPS points so far. That's better, but not like crazy better or anything...

He's having an excellent year at the plate. And he's having an excellent year on the mound. As one man he's doing two jobs that franchises ordinarily pay a LOT of money for two separate guys to do. An elite hitter and a legitimate #1 starter..who also happens to be 8th in all of baseball in stolen bases. How is that not MVP? Honestly..how is this even a discussion :lol

Right now Ohtani's odds are sitting at -5000 for MVP. Guerrero is +1400. He's going to win the award and it'll be close to unanimous.

[QUOTE]I'm not saying that pitching is easy. You're moving the goals posts[/QUOTE]

Also you:

[QUOTE]I'm sure if Vlad wanted to pitch, he could pitch[/QUOTE]

Sure seems like you're the one disqualifying things :confusedshrug:

Poor Shawk still doesn't get it. He's an Ohtani fanboy, that's all that we can conclude. How long have you been watching baseball? Not too many MVP's with an average in the .250's or .260's.


So you're saying that Ohtani is having an excellent year at the plate....that's fine. He is. Great. Well guess what, Guerrero Jr. is having an [B][SIZE=5]EVEN BETTER[/SIZE][/B] year than Ohtani at the plate.


And then you ramble a bunch of Ohtani stats to prove that he's a great hitter and that he deserves the MVP, but again, you're failing to acknowledge that Guerrero Jr. [B][SIZE=5]IS BETTER[/SIZE][/B] than Ohtani in all those stats.

So you're willing to give the MVP award to an inferior hitter just because he can pitch. That's like the only logical conclusion one can come to, you're just too afraid to admit it.


I'll throw it back to you and ask you, honestly, how is this even a discussion?? :lol

I've been watching and playing baseball since I popped out dude.

MVP = Most Valuable Player. Guerrero is a bit better at the plate. [I]A bit[/I]. I've already said this. Ohtani does 2 things at an elite level though. He's WAY better at pitching than Guerrero is. I don't know why you're just completely ignoring a huge part of the game in this discussion.

Example? For simplicity lets say there are two positions at a warehouse, fork lift operator and shipping associate. Fred is a GREAT forklift operator..the best. He can move 100 crates a day (I don't know what the fvck they do). More than pretty much anyone. However, he doesn't do any sort of packing. In fact, no one in the company is capable of effectively crossing roles. So this isn't a knock on Fred.

But then John gets hired. He is also very good as a fork lift operator, although not quite to the level of Fred. He can move 93 crates a day. However, on top of doing this he can also package and ship 90 items a day, a very good number for a shipping associate.

Who is more valuable employee to the company?

Ohtani is one man getting paid to do the job of two men. That is literally the definition of value. I'm not even remotely a fanboy of his. The only thing I really give a shit about is the Braves.

I can just call a spade a spade. You seem to be in denial.

I like how you say he's "a bit" better at the plate :lol. The numbers would say otherwise. I'd totally put my money on Vlad winning it. We shall see.


Bottom line, and this is where I'll leave it: Ohtani's pitching numbers aren't enough to make up for the difference in offense when matched up against Vlad Jr. Like I said, if Ohtani was closer to Vlad in those numbers (he doesn't even have to be leading), then I think it's Ohtani who deserves it. But since the All-Star break, Ohtani has tailed off....a bit.



Better question would be: Who's the NL MVP??


As of right now, I'm giving it to Harper. My top 3 though would be Harper, Soto, and Tatis.


Unless Freeman can spike his Average and his RBI's a bit, then I don't think Freeman or Riley are in the discussion.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14437776]I like how you say he's "a bit" better at the plate :lol. [B]The numbers would say otherwise.[/B] I'd totally put my money on Vlad winning it. We shall see.


Bottom line, and this is where I'll leave it: Ohtani's pitching numbers aren't enough to make up for the difference in offense when matched up against Vlad Jr. Like I said, if Ohtani was closer to Vlad in those numbers (he doesn't even have to be leading), then I think it's Ohtani who deserves it. But since the All-Star break, Ohtani has tailed off....a bit.



Better question would be: Who's the NL MVP??


As of right now, I'm giving it to Harper. My top 3 though would be Harper, Soto, and Tatis.


Unless Freeman can spike his Average and his RBI's a bit, then I don't think Freeman or Riley are in the discussion.[/QUOTE]

You'd be losing your money :lol

As for the NL, if the Padres play well down the stretch and secure a playoff spot and Tatis plays well then he'll win it. If not then yea it'll probably be Harper.

Hey Ohtani fanboy, where can I bet on MVP odds? I use Bovada mostly and I don't see anywhere where I can bet on MVP odds.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14438474]Hey Ohtani fanboy, where can I bet on MVP odds? I use Bovada mostly and I don't see anywhere where I can bet on MVP odds.[/QUOTE]

Not finding one either.

As far as listing, I'm not seeing his odds at less than -5000. One has it at -7000.

Facts =/= fanboy my baseball son.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14438476]Not finding one either.

As far as listing, I'm not seeing his odds at less than -5000. One has it at -7000.

Facts =/= fanboy my baseball son.[/QUOTE]

Where are you seeing these odds??

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14438476]Not finding one either.

As far as listing, I'm not seeing his odds at less than -5000. One has it at -7000.

Facts =/= fanboy my baseball son.[/QUOTE]

Shohei's odds have been slightly dropping since Jays' playoff push though.

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/YctMUeniWX8AAAAC/dumb-and-dumber-chance.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=BurningHammer;14438575]Shohei's odds have been slightly dropping since Jays' playoff push though.

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/YctMUeniWX8AAAAC/dumb-and-dumber-chance.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

The jays would have to make the playoffs with Guerrero blistering the entire rest of the way. AND Shohei would have to suck. If that happens then that would make it relatively close

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14438604]The jays would have to make the playoffs with Guerrero blistering the entire rest of the way. AND Shohei would have to suck. If that happens then that would make it relatively close[/QUOTE]

Vlad could reach 50 HRs sooner or later and that might make another MVP point too. But the AL wildcard playoff race will be thrilling. Jays, Yanks and Red Sox are at virtual tie right now. Yankees still have to face both Red Sox, Jays and Rays while both Red Sox and Jays will have relatively easier schedules for the rest of the month.

Shohei is just on cruise control since Angels will be out of the playoff yet again.

Not sure if competitiveness or lack thereof will help either of those two but we will see.