2022 off season Post Gobert. A new era begins

[url]https://kslsports.com/489537/mitchell-knicks-swap-makes-sense-but-not-without-barrett/[/url]

[QUOTE]Now, with Mitchell on the market, the Knicks can more aggressively commence their pursuit of the three-time All-Star, but it must start with a package centered around RJ Barrett.

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I don't think it's a must. He's certainly the best guy that they should want but I can certainly still see the deal happening without him. Danny will just demand more picks and pick swaps! You have to consider the big contract he's due now

[QUOTE]While Mitchell’s stock may have taken a slight hit after the Jazz’s first-round exit to the Dallas Mavericks, there are very few flaws in the All-Star guard’s resume.

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should have taken a huge hit after his post all star play. Lucky for us James Dolan and the Knicks exist!

[QUOTE]Over his five-year career in the NBA, Mitchell has never failed to lead the Jazz to the Western Conference Playoffs. During that stretch, the guard has never averaged fewer than 20.5 points per game, a half point better than Barrett’s career best.

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lead! If Danny thought he could lead them Danny might keep him :facepalm

[QUOTE]And, his playoff performances have been even more spectacular.

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except for the fact he only played one end and didn't pass to anyone in helping them lose

[QUOTE]While Mitchell averages an impressive 23.9 points per game for his career, that number skyrockets to 28.3 points per game in the postseason, the seventh-highest mark in NBA history.

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the bubble doesn't count

[QUOTE]While the Jazz traded Rudy Gobert to the Minnesota Timberwolves for four future first-round draft picks, a draft swap, and five serviceable NBA players, they didn’t get a young player in return that can be looked at as a potential building block of the future.

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Kessler possibly. He's a lot better prospect than Gobert at this stage and arguably Mitchell as well. Obviously the league has changed a lot and someone like Kessler isn't as valued but he does have some potential to stretch the floor and be a defensive stopper

[QUOTE]Though the Knicks have up to eight draft picks they could send the Jazz, and a collection of other young players including Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Quintin Grimes, and Miles McBride, none of them have shown a similar career trajectory to Barrett, even if he is no Donovan Mitchell.

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Reddish. Some might think he's better than Barrett. He hasn't had as much of a chance to be the guy in Atlanta as Barrett has in NY

[QUOTE]If the Knicks truly covet Mitchell the way their previous moves have indicated, they should look to land the All-Star this summer. But, if the Jazz are willing to listen to the Knicks’ calls, no trade should be considered without RJ Barrett.

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I don't agree. 8 picks! Several next season in the biggest draft possibly ever. Other young talent to tank with. This trade will likely get the Jazz a better player than Mitchell through the picks or the tank. Might never see anyone again with Gobert's impact in Utah.

[url]https://kslsports.com/489521/whats-relationship-like-between-donovan-mitchell-will-hardy/[/url]

who cares? Moot point it looks like. How's Thibs and Mitchell going to get along when he's asked to defend!

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/13/23213464/reports-utah-jazz-new-york-knicks-begin-donovan-mitchell-trade-talks-shams-charania-the-athletic[/url]

[QUOTE]Besides the draft picks, Charania mentioned New York has “stockpiled young players, such as [URL="https://theathletic.com/player/nba/knicks/quentin-grimes/"]Quentin Grimes[/URL] who is believed to be of interest to Utah, sources said.”

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Anyone but Barrett probably? Jazz would have to get Reddish if not Barrett

[QUOTE]Charania also wrote that the Miami Heat have interest in Mitchell but, with only two first-round draft picks eligible to be traded, would likely have to “engage a third team in a trade to supply the Jazz with the draft compensation needed for them to feel motivated enough to trade Mitchell.”

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Knicks might too if Barrett isn't in it. Jazz don't want Randle, Fournier or Rose. Not expiring

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/13/23212607/commentary-its-no-surprise-the-utah-jazz-are-willing-to-listen-to-trade-offers-for-donovan-mitchell[/url]

[QUOTE]Trying to “build a championship team” could mean that the Jazz aren’t shopping Mitchell and are instead looking for ways to be a legitimate contender following the Rudy Gobert trade to the Minnesota Timberwolves. But, it could also mean that in order to compete for a championship, the Jazz need to acquire assets because they know the window on a championship with this roster has closed.

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I think they probably looked at that route and couldn't see how you build a championship team around Mitchell. Ayton/Mitchell? Turner/Mitchell? Mitchell/Collins?

[QUOTE]You’d be hard pressed to find a large number of NBA executives or staffers who think the Gobert trade was the Jazz’s way of moving closer to a title. It’s much easier to find those who believe the Gobert trade was the first domino to fall in what will be a Jazz rebuild, and among NBA circles there are very few, if any, who are surprised the Jazz are willing to listen to Mitchell offers.[/QUOTE]

it appears that way. I thought they might give him to the trade deadline but it looks to be happening sooner than later

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/13/23211145/utah-jazz-rebuild-mode-donovan-mitchell-trade-report-knicks-heat-nets-ryan-smith-danny-ainge[/url]

[QUOTE][h=3]Would a Donovan Mitchell trade signal a full rebuild?[/h][/QUOTE]

of course not. They will be building around another Mitchell in Sexton! :roll:

[QUOTE]“The season wasn’t very much fun this year,” Ainge said. “The draft wasn’t very much fun. Free agency wasn’t very much fun. We were over the tax, had no draft picks and our team lost in the first round. It wasn’t fun for us.

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having fun yet Danny? :lol

[QUOTE]National experts agree that nothing appears imminent on a possible Mitchell trade.

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it sounds imminent to me. Just a matter of working out the details at this point

[QUOTE]IMO: no, we were not going to be contenders in the near term built around Rudy and Don. I think we could've been playoff teams. But, unless something crazy happened -- a 2nd round pick turns into an all-NBA player -- given our cap situation I think we were stuck there.[/QUOTE]

I think they could have beat the Bucks 2 seasons ago if they could have gotten there and a different coach and some tweeks might have been enough. We matched up well with the Bucks and it comes down to match ups

[QUOTE]But I think there is a way to use assets, retool, and be a playoff team again relatively quickly by keeping Don. And I don't think we'll be any closer to contenders trading away Don vs keeping Don. Instead, we'll just be further from a playoff team.[/QUOTE]

Not with Mitchell as your best player. That's the problem. He's got a max deal and doesn't have a max impact

[QUOTE]This is a similar argument I was having with Kira a while back: I have always defended the Conley trade [I]not[/I] because he was a good fit with Don (I don't think he was) but because he was the only realistic all-star-caliber player available. Like...the Conley trade [I]was[/I] the trade you were talking about! He just....wasn't at the position of most need and having 2 small, poor-defending guards revealed new problems. [/QUOTE]

yeah he wasn't ideal but he wasn't Rubio and he did fit. If Mitchell played as big and long as he physically is it could have worked. A different coach it could have worked
[QUOTE]
Your argument assumed that the Conley trade or a trade for a player better than Conley had to happen that summer. [/QUOTE]

it should have happened the season before but the Wizard still had his hardon for Exum so it didn't. They would have kept some of the assets they had to give up in the summer and would have been better off

[QUOTE]It could have happened before the trade deadline the next summer. Or even the next summer. Or the summer prior. Or the deadline prior. [/QUOTE]

yeah why not it's just Rudy's prime wasting away

[QUOTE]Crap, just keeping Crowder would have been better than Conley.

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they missed his toughness but not his 8 3 attempts a game or COTM love for him

[QUOTE]I woukd like Hartenstein included in a package but as a recently signed FA I think have to wait until December 15th before he can be traded.


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another guy I wanted in the draft. Not sure the Jazz want him now with Udoka and Kessler unless Kessler is headed for the Stars

[QUOTE]Wouldn't it be great if after all of the dust settles, we trade DM, Conley, and Bogey. Clarkson would be the only main guy from last year's team left, he ends up starting, and puts up about the same averages that Donovan had last year for us? Something like 24 ppg with 4 assists/rebounds?[/QUOTE]

I'd hate to even think of the shooting %'s for Clarkson to average that many points.

[QUOTE]To be honest there are a ton of SGs in the league who could put up similar numbers if given 20 shots a game, 10 from 3. So much of the league is just opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Guys like Sexton and McCollum have put up similar numbers without the hype or accolades. McCollum even led a young Pels team last year. Something Mitchell has not done

[QUOTE]Donny's 3 point shooting took a step back last year. I was surprised it ended at 35.5% cause seemed to be low 30's most of the year. I think the Lilliard like 3s did not help him.[/QUOTE]

only one it helps is Curry and the other team. 18%!

[QUOTE]I wouldn't mind him having another shot to lead the team with a new coach and players but I also understand Ainge thinking he might not be the guy. His brilliance in the Denver series seems a long way away.

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the brilliance of giving up as much at one end or more than at the other end?

[QUOTE]This is bad to say but even Jimmer could have averaged 20 per game if he had been given the ultimate green light to shoot like Mitchell had.

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seriously might have been a star if he'd traded places with Mitchell at that time. Better shooter

[QUOTE](also clarkson would never take 50 shots in a game but jimmer would)


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Clarkson is the biggest gunner I've ever seen by far

[QUOTE]Wemby brings it all, so I’m glad we shipped out Rudy and all his limitations for a shot at that.


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can't wait for all these perfect players that will somehow be better than the 3rd best player in franchise history!

[QUOTE]Some truth, I joke about Clarkson, but not many players could be like Mitchell and be the focus on offense of a legitimate good team. Like teams don't take Houston seriously, so they loaf on defense and Jalen Green can score 20 points. When teams play Golden State or Memphis, they know they have to guard Steph and Ja so they build whole defensive plans on how to stop them. When teams played against us, they knew if they stopped Donovan, our offense was more less neutralized. The one thing about Donovan that shows he is very special is how he has performed in the playoffs. This season he was a dud, but every other playoffs he has been outstanding. I can see why Miami would love to have him -- he would be perfect for their team.[/QUOTE]

they were a legitimately good team with Exum/Burke. Mitchell is replacable in today's game. Game plans usually tried to stop their most efficient shot the dunk by Gobert. Mitchell and Clarkson helped out their game plan by launching shot after shot. Mitchell has scored in the playoffs. Defending and passing are important too though so he failed badly. Can't imagine him fitting in with Riley, Butler, Lowry...

[QUOTE]Honestly don’t remember, but I’m pretty sure he was still recovering when the playoffs started, maybe got banged up in the grizz series and then really got banged up halfway through the clips series


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all while getting the doctor fired that said you weren't ready. He was right. Jazz lost

[QUOTE]Randle is a head-case now and Rose makes no sense on the Jazz. Plus they are Thibs guys. Thibs doesn't like Reddish. [/QUOTE]

so they might want to push Reddish unless Thibs is already gone for Johnnie Bryant and Brunson's pop

[QUOTE]Reddish, Tobbin, IQ and picks for DM would be fine. And, it gets rid of guys Thibs doesn't trust anyways. Those young guys could be great with a younger coach like Hardy. But, I guess for money-matching Rose or Randle need to be in the deal. Danny can flip whoever it is. [/QUOTE]

can't trust those guys? He'll love Mitchelll!

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Sounded like Shai was available. Maybe get him for Mitchell?

[QUOTE]Why don't the Knicks keep their wonderful 1st round picks then? Unless the Jazz is getting the top pick in an excellent draft the Jazz is only receiving an illusion of something valuable.[/QUOTE]

kind of like the illusion of Mitchell as a star leading the Jazz without Gobert!

[QUOTE]Unless Barrett and Robinson are included in any trade by the Knicks for Mitchell, I don't care how many sh*tty first round draft picks are included in the trade by the Knicks, that would be a fleecing of the Jazz by the Knicks, and Danny Ainge would be a dumbass. Even if Barrett and Robinson were both included in that trade, it still might turn out to be a trade wildly in favor of the Knicks, because neither Barrett nor Robinson has come close to being an all star and maybe never will. A trade with the players suggested by Knicks fans would be ludicrous.[/QUOTE]

Mitchell is Colin Sexton(a non all star) without Gobert. Robinson has Gobert like potential. Barrett arguably is better than Mitchell now because he does compete at both ends

[QUOTE]... Hello? Sacramento Kings? Can we interest you in a gently used Bojan or a well -loved Conley?

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I wouldn't be surprised if the do business with them. Kings want to make the playoffs. Jazz want to lose

[QUOTE]Historically. in NBA trades, quality has always been more important than quantity, and the team trading for an NBA star--in his prime--always by far gets the best part of the deal, unless the star gets injured for a long period of time, following the trade. I've been watching the NBA for 50 years, and that's how NBA trades have always worked. There's no reason to believe the trades involving Gobert and Mitchell will be different.[/QUOTE]

you are right. You're just overrating Mitchell

[QUOTE]You've been watching the NBA for 50 years. Do you legitimately believe that the Jazz could trade for a player that would have put the team in a position to significantly improve with Gobert or even now to pair with Mitchell? If so, do you have any trade target in mind - nevermind making a trade work, that's the FO's job, just a legitimate target that could be/have been available for the a price the Jazz could have paid without emptying the proverbial cupboard.[/QUOTE]

I think a new coach and a few tweeks around the edges could have made all the difference. See what GS did with Mark Jackson vs Kerr

[QUOTE]Quality is for sure more important than quantity; but the draft is a crapshoot and having more opportunities to draft a star seems like the only realistic way for Utah to get the kind of talent they need. The prior FO traded away too many assets and gave out contracts that were overly generous thus putting the Jazz in a bad position where they were a few steps away from contention but with no way to take those steps.[/QUOTE]

Mitchell's contrac is over generous. Lucky it's not max like it could have been!!!

[QUOTE]I think it could be argued that just a new coach may have been enough as Q certainly had his flaws, but the actions of the FO suggest that the problems were fundamentally worse than we know. [/QUOTE]

that's the thing we don't really know what was really going on that caused Mitchell and Royce to disappear after the all star break

[QUOTE]Which is why we should have kept them together. [/QUOTE]

or trade Mitchell and Clarkson for vets that fit better around your best player

[QUOTE]If you're building a team from scratch, Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, and Quin Snyder would be a fantastic start. Just need some decent perimeter defenders who are average 3P shooters, and you've got a contender. [/QUOTE]

Mitchell wasn't the best fit with Gobert for whatever reasons

[QUOTE] We were offered an overpay for Gobert, so they took it. Then they tried to trade Bojan, Conley, Beverley, etc. for pieces to fit next to Mitchell and no one wants to trade value for them, so now they are exploring trading Mitchell. Seems logical to me and no reason to rant. The Gobert-Mitchell Utah Jazz peaked last season when they went up 2 - 0 on the Clippers. The team has been on a decline ever since. This upcoming season they would have been worse than last season. Changes had to be made or else we would have kept being a 6 or 7 seed ever year Gobert was on the team and not had any resources to take another leap. ESPECIALLY not for the next two seasons.[/QUOTE]

unless the Jazz get a player that makes as big of an impact as Gobert which is highly unlikely they lose the trade so it's a bit early to say overpay! I'd guess they just don't see a Ayton or Collins or Turner and Mitchell even making the play in! We have no idea what a new coach and some tweeks would have done this year. They were a top 5 D last year when Gobert played and the best offense in the league. COTM made no adjutments in the playoffs when the offense was shut down. What we can say is they blew the Gobert era as badly as they could ahve from letting Millsap and Demarre go to keeping COTM and Clarkson etc....

[QUOTE]Gobert just turned 30 last month and has four years left on his contract. Mitchell is 25 and has four years left on his contract. Both are arguably coming off the best seasons of their respective careers.

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as long as we forget Mitchell after the break! Gobert has never been better

[QUOTE]I don’t think the Kawhi trade really counts because Toronto gave up exactly one first round pick for Kawhi. But even if you want to count it, it’s the exception - not the rule. Lakers got a championship out of AD, so that worked out one year, but have been bad outside of that so that’s worked out pretty well in NO’s favor.

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the bubble doesn't count

[QUOTE]Lakers won a ring with AD, and they don't win without him! Even given his injuries recently, he's still only 29. Wouldn't be crazy to see him play 60 games this year and return to his all-NBA form. But even if AD never returns to his former glory... Banners fly forever.[/QUOTE]

60 games!

[QUOTE]The DWill trade is interesting. Who won that trade?[/QUOTE]

the Jazz lost choosing their coach over their best player once again.

[QUOTE]2) In an era of player empowerment, do you really think an all-NBA, star player is going to accept a trade to Utah? ...really? [/QUOTE]

depends on the player. Everyone should have wanted to play with Gobert.

[QUOTE]I'm not saying Ainge and Smith are better, that's yet to be seen, but Ainge has a record that suggests he actually has a very good grasp on the above mentioned concepts. Smith---the Jury's out on that one, the Jersey's are certainly awful, but if his involvement in the team paying them and deciding what they wear and then letting actual basketball minds do what they do, then I'm fine with ugly uniforms. **** it let's go purple, pink and lime green next season. Hell, let's sell the Jazz name back to New Orleans and rebrand as the Stars or the Brine Shrimp or the Seagulls or the Salt Flats or the Stank by the dried up Lake. [/QUOTE]

Ainge is the best the franchise has ever had by far. Boston was in the finals this season. That's Danny's handiwork. Doesn't mean he won the Gobert trade. He will win the Mitchell trade big time is my prediction. James ****in' Dolan!!!

[QUOTE]Who would come to Utah that was realistically available this off season and how would you have gotten them before the Gobert trade?[/QUOTE]

New coach. Trade Conley and Clarkson. Royce to the wing. Get a starting 4. Mitchell to the 1. Bojan to the bench. I can certainly see that being a better team. Got to wonder if hiring Hardy made them tank? Or he was hired because they already decided to tank?

[QUOTE]While I still wish we would keep him, this is certainly an entertaining off season. Makes you wonder how much the hard line on Mitchell was used to drive up Demand for Gobert. How much posturing about wanting two all stars on the team at the all star game was posturing? We may never know.

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I'd guess Danny wanted to blow it up as long as he thought he was at least getting fair value which is hard to say when giving up a Gobert! Even as far as COTM goes he might have wanted him out and instead of just firing his ass they told him they might not be running it back and he might be part of a rebuild? At least I hope so. Because keeping him as coach and thinking you can build around Mitchell makes me think the front office is pretty clueless and we know Danny isn't anyway

[QUOTE]I guarantee their picks are better than we will get with the T'Wolves. Knicks won't have near the talent level as them.


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We'll see. Knicks have other teams picks as well. Twolves should be better for sure as long as Gobert and Ant are healthy

[QUOTE]Heck, MN has 3 players -- Rudy, KAT, Ant -- better than anyone on that NYK roster.

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could argue at least 4

[QUOTE]The T wolves look awesome right now but my thoughts by the time the 2027 and 2029 firsts come around that they will be very cap strapped to keep that band together. But my timelines could be off there as well.


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the decline of Rudy is what Ainge is hoping for. Ant will be on his way to one of the best in the game as Rudy declines though

[QUOTE]If Donovan is traded, I think we should keep Conley as a high character leader and mentor. His trade value is low with his price, so the Jazz could be wise to hold onto him, trade other vets for picks, and trade Conley at next year’s deadline

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he has to go. Only old vets I could see on a tanking team is at the end of the bench. You want young guys getting the PT

[QUOTE]Conley is one of the most highly respected veterans in this league, and keeping him as a mentor for young guys will be positive. His contract is affordable, and can trade next year when his salary gets down to 14 million or something.

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but he's taking minutes from Butler and Quickley. Someone like Forrest makes more sense to me

[QUOTE]Conley for George Hill, Grayson Allen, Connaughton, and Mattews. Even that would be hard because while the salaries match, that leaves the Bucks with 3 slots open they can't fill with anything but vet minimums. And I don't think the Jazz have room for 3 extra players (maybe 1 or 2). [/QUOTE]

Jazz have room for 20 players in the off season. That shouldn't be a worry. Almost everyone on the roster now will be gone if Mitchell is

[QUOTE]But if we're moving Don and doing full on tank...I don't worry about building assets (I trust Ainge to do that) but I think team culture would be hard to build. And of our current vets, Mike (and JC) can help build team culture the best.

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I wouldn't let Clarkson near any of the young guys. Hey this is the way to play guys!

[QUOTE]Miami's assets are bad. Herro Robinson plus picks and their picks will be not valuable.[/QUOTE]

Herro potentially better than Mitchell

[QUOTE]Knicks arguably got the best asset to offer. They have four first round picks next year and next year's draft is said to be great. They also got some young talents - Barrett, Toppin, Grimes, McBride, Reddish - I don't see them being a core in a contender but still. Personally I don't want Barrett at all. He just have no efficiency with not that high volume. I would take Toppin, Grimes, Reddish and a filler plus bunch of first round picks. [/QUOTE]

just turned 22. 20 pts(41/34/71)Did shoot better on less shots the year before. 6 rbds/3 ass/2 to's/1 stl and plays at least some D. If you think he can be worth a max I see going for him because with those numbers he will get max if not this off season than next

[QUOTE]When the Jazz traded Royce I expected them to trade Gobert and when they indeed traded Gobert I thought they would trade Mitchell too. A team that wants to make a run in the playoff and whose weakness was perimeter defense doesn't trade their one of the best perimeter defender (Royce) for a pick. And as Gobert is gone, this team cannot go further than play-in. We saw where this team goes in January when there is no Gobert. I gotta suspect that when we hired Danny Ainge, he was already thinking about tearing this team down. And actually we cannot blame that. We know this team's weakness and its ceiling well than anyone else. [/QUOTE]

Royce, House, Forrest, Hermangomez, Rudy...everyone that played D gone. They weren't getting in the play in without Rudy. We can blame him though. Hard to trade a ****in' statue!

[QUOTE]Unless we trade Mitchell for Simmons. [/QUOTE]\

Ainge is smarter than that

[QUOTE]From a Jazz POV: Don for Herro, Robinson and an ungodly amount of [I][B]Knicks picks[/B][/I]...? That could work...[/QUOTE]

don't want Robinson

[QUOTE]Why would the Jazz want the crap assets the Kinicks have to offer, unless Jazz management thinks Donovan just isn't really very good. I'm bitter about this unnecessary Jazz fire-sale, and I hope that Rudy and Donovan both go on to have very long, successful careers after being traded, so that Danny Ainge and Ryan Smith look like dumbasses for trading them away prematurely. That's just how I feel about two of my favorite Jazz players ever.


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Ainge doesn't think he can build a championship team around Mitchell is the rumor and I would agree. Mitchell/Ayton, Mitchell/Turner or Collins? lottery! The Gobert trade may never look good. They will get at least 1 player better than Mitchell if not more when all is said and done though

[QUOTE]Sorry, I guess what I really meant is the best assets of anyone in the league that would want mitchell. Guys like spurs and Thunder aren’t going to want Donovan cause they’re rebuilding. Kings are interesting though, who knows what the hell they think they’re doing

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He actually could make some sense for OKC depending on what they think their timeline is. Shai and Mitchell make a lot of sense as a backcourt. Giddey and Holgren. Starting to look like sonmething. Jazz can bring Favors home!

Kings certainly could put something pretty good together I'm sure too

[QUOTE]Why wouldn't they though? If I was OKC, I would consider trading for him. Looks like other teams are going to be tanking hard and they are getting better. I don't think they would get the #1 pick. They could pair Mitchell and SGA together and hope that Chet Holmgren is as good as they think. Shai is 24 and Mitchell is 25.

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2022/7/13/23213502/the-utah-jazz-and-new-york-knicks-have-begun-trade-negotiations-for-donovan-mitchell-rumors-2022[/url]

[QUOTE]At this point, the question is what are the pieces involved in a potential move? Jones mentions that the Knicks are not wanting to get rid of their front-line talent. That likely is in reference to RJ Barrett. The Knicks surely would like to keep their young, talented wing on the roster to grow alongside Mitchell and Brunson. They are all on the same timeline and would make the Knicks a perennial playoff team. It feels like the Jazz and Knicks are just finalizing on players, but at the very least, according to Tony Jones, the Jazz have interest in Immanuel Quickley, and would probably give him lots of run next year if they are successful with this trade.

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Quickley and Grimes...

[QUOTE]If Barrett then leaves for almost nothing, NY is left with a roster of Brunson, Mitchell, Randle and Robinson with no depth, few picks, and that is possibly a lottery team this coming year with no defense and awkward fit between your 3 guards. Not to mention possible locker room issues with Brunson not getting the role he wants and taking a step back.

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that's why they want to keep Barrett

[QUOTE]Jazz need to take younger players like Topin, Grimes, and their FRP this past draft (to handicap them for their future and find a gem if possible) and give NY another player. Then take Fournier for salary matching and using his contract to flip him as well for another draft pick.[/QUOTE]

don't want Fournier, Randle or Rose if possible

[QUOTE]Agree. No Barrett and no Reddish. Any of the other young guys that aren’t up for a raise next year would be great


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again it depends. Barrett you probably have to pay max. You want to start building around him as a max player? Reddish you could probably get on a decent deal now
[QUOTE]
So... Who are we building around in the (very likely) event we don't pick Wembanyama?[/QUOTE]

Barrett, Sexton or no one

[QUOTE]I’m not sure what you want, dude. Like yeah - best odds are 1 in 7 winning the first pick, but those are still the best odds. All you can do is secure the best odds and hope it plays out. It seems like what you wanted was a scenario where we had 0% chance at a generational prospect and also ran it back with Rudy and Donovan for a 0% chance of making it to the second round. One of those two options has a chance for something better and the other is a dead end.

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they had more than a 0 chance of winning it all. Maybe they just needed a new coach and a few tweeks? COTM was a huge reason why they didn't get out of the first round. A much bigger task to replace someone who in Jazz history comes around about every 15 years. See ya at the end of the next decade! Trade a statue or hope you get really lucky and acquire another statue?

[QUOTE]2nd: What I want is to watch fun, competitive Jazz games. And I think trading away Don makes that harder to do in the near term than keeping him. [/QUOTE]

I look forward to seeing a team again instead of Mitchell and Clarkson gunning and everyone standing around watching them or standing around watching Rudy and Royce at the other end

[QUOTE]I guess what I would like to see is a jazz team that wins a championship. At the very least it would be cool if the Jazz could make the conference finals and at least make it competitive once they were there.[/QUOTE]

trading statues and praying for another doesn't usually win championships. This isn't the Lakers where they buy them

[QUOTE]I have almost 0 interest in a team with a ceiling 4-5 seed and first [I]maybe[/I] second round playoff exit.

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better find a new team. I'd love a team that moves the ball and plays hard at both ends which sounds like what Hardy plans. I have loved the Jazz when they play as a team. Big Al, Mitchell, Clarkson iso isn't my thing sorry! We play a different game here in Utah

[QUOTE]You and I disagree on [I][B]how[/B][/I] to take this post-Rudy team to the WCF. I think blowing it all up and getting to the WCF is way harder than retooling around a 25-year old all-star. That's all.[/QUOTE]

depends on the 25 year old but yeah. Finding another Rudy won't come easy. Rudy has a good chance to go to the finals this year so obviously it wasn't him

[QUOTE]How so? Like, didn't that shit end when we traded Kanter and lost Hayward? I mean, we still had Favors but we knew he wasn't going to be Dwight Howard at that point (who woulda thunk?!). The post-D-Will rebuild, ended with the rise of Hayward and Rudy. This is the end of the Rudy and Donovan chapter, if anything.


[/QUOTE]

the Jazz were still hoping for Favors to be Dwight 2 seasons ago!

[QUOTE]I'll miss Spi-dad-Mitchell if this happens. But it has become increasingly apparent that Utah will go into some sort of retooling or rebuild. 2 out of 5 starters from the original 2021 team have already been traded (O'Neale and Gobert), and possibly more if they want to use Bogdanovic or Conley as trade fodder. I honestly don't mind the [I]Ultimate Clarkson Show [/I]™ if this trade happens, it also helps evaluate if Clarkson can occupy a bigger role in the future and maybe secure a higher draft pick. If Donny gets traded, we're going full-on tank mode.[/QUOTE]

if Mitchell is gone Clarkson is. he should be either way. Hard to believe anyone else would want him!

[QUOTE]Clarkson has already had the lead role on two teams. Both of those team decided to bench/trade him or both. Not sure why you need to evaluate this again.[/QUOTE]

yep. I saw enough after his first game in Utah!

[QUOTE]He's not likely to take efficient shots, and he doesn't pass the ball much.

[/QUOTE]

I'd prefer losing with players sharing the ball and working on D

[QUOTE]I have a huge issue with this. Assuming a trade makes the Knicks a perennial playoff team, then any first round picks the Jazz receive, will be low first rounders. Not very many great players are picked that low. However, we absolutely can't let DM simply walk away after his contract is up. F🎇🥐k you, Hayward!


[/QUOTE]

you're assuming a lot. Maybe Thibs can get them back on track but unless Barrett is able to lead them or Randle is better again it looks like a shit show to me. Thibs trying to get Mitchell to defend? Johnnie Bryand becomes interim coach?

[QUOTE]If the Knicks give up something like Quickley, Grimes, Toppin, Reddish plus alpha their depth will be bad with two 6-1 guards in their back court which will be the repeat of Mitchell and Conley. And they will have to give up bunch of picks. I actually have no idea why the Knicks are going all in for Donovan AFTER they signed Brunson. Well that's because Knicks are the Knicks.[/QUOTE]

exactly. I figured they were done with Mitchell after getting Brunson. We love you James Dolan you sick mother ****er!

[QUOTE]If this happens NYK really shot themselves in the foot with the Brunson signing.


[/QUOTE]

not really. As long as he plays well he'd be tradable. Not a max deal

[QUOTE]Ya, Having Barrett, Mitchell, and Brunson would be crazy. And since Brunson can't be traded until Dec (I believe) since he was signed this off season, NY would need to give up Barrett in the trade. Makes no sense to have those 3 in the back court.[/QUOTE]

Barrett at the 3

[QUOTE] [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]At least one voice in the Jazz’s front office prefers Herro as a return to Barrett,[/URL] according to a source. Essentially, Tyler Herro’s likelihood of being a cheaper contract moving forward and his more advanced shooting stroke are reasons for optimism. RJ Barrett, to be sure, is longer, younger, and has much more defensive potential, though.

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/member-of-jazz-front-office-more-interested-in-tyler-herro-over-rj-barrett-as-piece-in-mitchell-trade/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]





[URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Jokes have been written about party-happy Herro in Utah, but a source with knowledge of Herro’s thinking says he’s more optimistic about the potential marriage[/URL] — especially one in which he’d play a greater role than in Miami.
[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732859/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]






[URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]RJ Barrett, the third pick of the 2019 NBA Draft, was considered more valuable to the Knicks than the Jazz, and so wasn’t included in the most recent conversation,[/URL] multiple sources told the Tribune.
[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732858/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]


[/QUOTE]

Herro just said he wants to start. I like Barrett more as a potential two way but he might be more expensive to sign now. The picks and tank are more important. That's where you get the next franchise player I'd guess. 3 team deal where Jazz get Herro and picks from Knicks!

[QUOTE] In order to complete a trade, the Jazz would need to acquire a larger salary back from the Knicks as well. [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Julius Randle, though, would likely not be that piece — Evan Fournier or Derrick Rose are more likely,[/URL] a source said.

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/evan-fournier-or-derrick-rose-more-likely-headed-to-jazz-not-julius-randle-in-mitchell-trade/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]


[/QUOTE]
they wouldn't actually if all the young guys are in the deal as I proposed



[QUOTE] [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]In those conversations and prior ones, according to a source, the Jazz asked for a huge, essentially unprecedented return[/URL] for Donovan Mitchell. The Knicks can trade a maximum of eight first-round picks outright — the Jazz want a majority of those picks. They also asked for pick swaps down the road. Finally, they also asked for some combination of youngsters Quentin Grimes, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, and Cam Reddish. Grimes is perhaps the lead target among those players for Utah.

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732856/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]


[/QUOTE]
Are you having fun yet Danny? Interesting that a 6'4 guard is their top guy





[QUOTE] However, the Knicks are not the only team interested in Mitchell. The Miami Heat have been interested in both Kevin Durant and Donovan Mitchell over recent weeks. But their stable of young pieces and picks simply isn’t as attractive as New York’s. [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]The Heat have traded their 2025 first-round pick away, meaning that they can only offer their 2023 pick, their 2027 pick, and their 2029 pick, along with pick swaps in the other years. The Heat also have a deficit of young players compared to New York. 22-year-old Tyler Herro is a good piece, but Max Strus, Gabe Vincent, and Omer Yurtseven are older and on shorter contracts than their key Knicks’ counterparts[/URL].

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732855/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]





[/QUOTE]

Bam only 24!



[QUOTE] [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]The Heat made an offer weeks ago for Mitchell that included nearly all of those pieces, but the Jazz found it insufficient.[/URL] At that time, sources tell the Tribune, the Jazz and Heat agreed that a third team that might be necessary in the trade in order to bring more value to the Jazz — likely meaning that the Heat would have to send veteran pieces elsewhere to get younger player or pick value in return.

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732854/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]







[URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Another possibility that has been considered: Mitchell ending up in New York City — but for the Brooklyn Nets, rather than for the Knicks. In this circumstance, the Nets would trade Kevin Durant to a third team,[/URL] likely Phoenix, and use the capital they get back to acquire Mitchell. Nets owner Joe Tsai is said to want to maintain a competitive roster in Brooklyn despite trading Durant, and Mitchell would be a logical starting point.
[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732853/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]







However, huge roadblocks exist to the idea. [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]The first is that the Nets, under a CBA rule, cannot hold Mitchell’s and Ben Simmons designated rookie extensions at the same time, since both were acquired in trade. The Nets would have to move Simmons to either the Jazz or another team[/URL].
[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732851/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake Tribune[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

Simmons no way!
[QUOTE] [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Second, the Suns would have to send out enough salary to balance out Durant’s $44 million contract — and Mikal Bridges’ $20 million isn’t enough. Center DeAndre Ayton, who might have been useful as both salary ballast and return, just signed a maximum extension offer sheet with the Indiana Pacers.[/URL] The Suns, if they match, could not trade Ayton without his permission for one year.
[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732850/"]46 mins ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2022/07/14/donovan-mitchells-future-with/"]Salt Lake [/URL][/QUOTE]

wouldn't want Duncan Robinson for sure. Need at least a 3rd team for sure looking at the trade machine

[QUOTE] Andy Larsen: From my understanding of what the Jazz are looking for in Donovan Mitchell trade negotiations… – [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Knicks deal: They want more picks (‘29?), pick swaps, and/or Quentin Grimes – Heat deal: More picks + Max Strus[/URL] – Raptors deal: Not close whatsoever – Thunder deal: Not close, picks have no upside – 4 team deal: Actually Jazz could do that

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/jazz-want-more-picks-and-quentin-grimes-from-knicks-or-more-picks-and-max-strus-from-heat-for-donovan-mitchell/"]4 hours ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://twitter.com/andyblarsen"]Twitter andyblarsen[/URL]


[/QUOTE]
Grimes and Strus are the only guys they like? Danny just wants picks!!!



[QUOTE] Andy Larsen: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]They’ve asked the Heat to engage a third team if they’re interested in Donovan, because they don’t find the packages the Heat can offer sufficient[/URL]

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732726/"]4 hours ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://twitter.com/andyblarsen"]Twitter andyblarsen[/URL]







[URL="https://*********.com/social/"]“I think ultimately [the Knicks] are going to wind up with Donovan Mitchell.”[/URL] — @TimBontemps

[HR][/HR] [INDENT] "I think ultimately [the Knicks] are going to wind up with Donovan Mitchell."
—[URL="https://twitter.com/TimBontemps?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]@TimBontemps[/URL] [URL="https://t.co/A4iDh6G7rR"]pic.twitter.com/A4iDh6G7rR[/URL]

— Get Up (@GetUpESPN) [URL="https://twitter.com/GetUpESPN/status/1547591215436050433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]July 14, 2022[/URL][/INDENT]

[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732700/"]8 hours ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://twitter.com/GetUpESPN"]Twitter GetUpESPN[/URL]






Evan Sidery: . @wojespn on the Jazz now listening to trade offers for Donovan Mitchell: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]“This is a player coveted by numerous teams. And certainly when you see a trade market that includes Kevin Durant, players of that caliber, all of a sudden it can possibly open up multi-team scenarios.”[/URL]
[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732678/"]14 hours ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://twitter.com/esidery"]Twitter esidery[/URL]






League sources have indicated that [URL="https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/13/23212607/commentary-its-no-surprise-the-utah-jazz-are-willing-to-listen-to-trade-offers-for-donovan-mitchell"]the Jazz have shut down some previous inquiries about Mitchell from other teams, but that was mostly based on timing and belief that offers would not have measured up to what the Jazz feel Mitchell is worth[/URL].
[URL="https://*********.com/rumor/1732677/"]14 hours ago[/URL] – via [URL="https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/13/23212607/commentary-its-no-surprise-the-utah-jazz-are-willing-to-listen-to-trade-offers-for-donovan-mitchell"]Sarah Todd @ deseret.com[/URL]

[/QUOTE]

the deals already more than he is worth. How much will some idiot pay? James ****in' Dolan!!!

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2022/7/13/23212984/utah-jazz-trade-rumors-the-latest-with-donovan-mitchell[/url]

[QUOTE][INDENT] A 4-team trade scenario involving Kevin Durant, Deandre Ayton, Ben Simmons & Donovan Mitchell (via [URL="https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]@BobbyMarks42[/URL])

Who says no?[URL="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NBATwitter?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]#NBATwitter[/URL] [URL="https://t.co/U9V0tI44OI"]pic.twitter.com/U9V0tI44OI[/URL]

— ’ (@_Talkin_NBA) [URL="https://twitter.com/_Talkin_NBA/status/1547305809595404288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]July 13, 2022[/URL] [/INDENT][/QUOTE]

no amount of picks is worth Simmons. **** that guy

[QUOTE]I'm sure any team trading for Simmons would have a long 1-1 discussion with him and his agents before finalizing a deal. Simmons was a very good player, and if he's willing to really commit, he could still be a great contributor. And if he doesn't work out, UTA could still trade him before any of the recently acquired picks turn into players. [/QUOTE]

max deal, herniated discs, mental midget. No thanks!!!

[QUOTE]Anyway, I guess we don't want a winning culture around here for awhile, so if he doesn't want to play, that's fine. If he sucks, that's fine. We don't want a good player right now anyway, but we need to take back about 30million somehow. Longterm I don't think he can turn down that kind of money, so he'd play and we'd have the option to trade him. [/QUOTE]

who wants him though?

[QUOTE]Why wouldn't Cleveland want Bojan instead of Conley? They already have Rubio and Darius Garland.


[/QUOTE]

and Neto who all too often out played the spaz!

[QUOTE][I]I trust Danny and Justin," Hardy said. "Their track record and their history speaks for itself. But they've been really open and communicative with me and collaborative throughout the process."[/I][/QUOTE]

what track record does Zanik have? Keeping COTM, signing Gay and Mitchell's bff?

[QUOTE]You know, if Porter and Murry can play next season, Denver has a really good roster. Offense, defense, MVP. [/QUOTE]

big if. Backs are serious. I know

[QUOTE]The west will be stacked with a lot of really good teams, so UTA may "tank" even if they don't do so intentionally.

[/QUOTE]

call it what you will but they aren't winning without Gobert. Haven't seen it yet

[QUOTE]If we get Sexton, that means we are pairing him with DM, right ?


[/QUOTE]

Sexton is the biggest clue to me that he's gone. The trolls went wild last year when I said Sexton had put up similar numbers to Mitchell. He makes a lot of sense. Maybe a comparable player for 1/3 of the price?

[QUOTE]Beasley?


[/QUOTE]

he's only 25 so I could see keeping him if the front office thinks he can be a good influence

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2022/7/13/23212172/utah-jazz-pick-up-their-first-las-vegas-summer-league-loss-vs-toronto-raptors-nba-butler-coboclo[/url]

[QUOTE]I truly want to see Coboclo succeed in the NBA. Yet it’s hard to see him carving out a significant role with how many avoidable mistakes he makes. It’s easy to notice when Coboclo is focused on the court or not, and tonight he showed the latter.

[/QUOTE]

probably why he's been a bust

[QUOTE]With that said, it’s undeniable that Butler has some amazing talent as passer. Had his teammates not blown open layups and dunks, Butler would have finished the night with nearly 10 assists, something he’s done multiple times this summer. I’m genuinely impressed with this part of his game and I hope the shooting comes around soon.

[/QUOTE]

He'll figure it out backing up Quickley

[QUOTE]Xavier Sneed hasn’t filled up the statsheet throughout summer league, but I still think he’s an NBA player. He does a fantastic job of playing within his role and defends well on the perimeter. He’s with Utah on a two-way contract.

[/QUOTE]

they keep saying that but wasn't that just for last year? He's a restricted free agent no?

[QUOTE]I was as critical of Q as anyone, but he was right for not playing Butler. [/QUOTE]

early on he was playing and shouldn't have. As the season wore on I could have seen going to him or someone else instead of more Clarkson bricks!

[QUOTE]I didn't know Cockburn was on a 2-way contract.


[/QUOTE]

exhibit 10