80's vs 90's

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]The Bulls beat Ewing, O'Neal, and Mourning not the Bulls centers.

The '86 Celtics had the greatest front court in NBA History. They would destroy the Bulls up front. The Celtics are the better team from top to bottom.

[I]"We could not have won 70 games playing against 1980's teams."[/I]
- Dennis Rodman[/QUOTE]

Pippen and Rodman were the starting forwards for those Bulls teams. Bird and McHale are better but there's no way they are destroying Pippen and Rodman. Rodman always did very well against Bird and McHale in the 80's and he was better when he was the Bulls. The Bulls centers held their own against Ewing, O'Neal and Mourning. Robert Parish is not a top 10 center and Bill Walton only averaged 7.6 points per game in '86. Phil Jackson is a better coach than K.C. Jones and Tex Winter is better than Jimmy Rodgers and Chris Ford.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]The Bulls beat Ewing, O'Neal, and Mourning not the Bulls centers.

The '86 Celtics had the greatest front court in NBA History. They would destroy the Bulls up front. The Celtics are the better team from top to bottom.

[I]"We could not have won 70 games playing against 1980's teams."[/I]
- Dennis Rodman[/QUOTE]

When did Rodman say that?

[QUOTE=nycelt84]Pippen and Rodman were the starting forwards for those Bulls teams. Bird and McHale are better but there's no way they are destroying Pippen and Rodman. Rodman always did very well against Bird and McHale in the 80's and he was better when he was the Bulls. The Bulls centers held their own against Ewing, O'Neal and Mourning. Robert Parish is not a top 10 center and Bill Walton only averaged 7.6 points per game in '86. Phil Jackson is a better coach than K.C. Jones and Tex Winter is better than Jimmy Rodgers and Chris Ford.[/QUOTE]

Actually Bird was destroying Pippen in the early 90's when he was an old man and had back problems. Nobody stops a prime Larry Bird. And Rodman would not be able to guard McHale in the post. McHale is just to long for him.

Walton averaged 7.6 PPG? Yes, but the guy did everything on the court. He played Defense, blocked shots, and was a great passer. He did win 6th man of the year in 1986. Don't let the stats fool you.

Phil Jackson is a better coach than K.C. Jones but Jackson is also a beter coach than Doc Rivers and how did that turn out?

The Celtics were better than the Bulls at every position except SG.

Pippen reached his prime in the mid 90's not the early 90's he was a much better player as the decade went on. Old man with back problems or not Larry Bird was always very good. Rodman did very well against both McHale and Bird both in the '87 and '88 Eastern Conference Finals and that was his rookie year and 2nd year.

[QUOTE=miles berg]Please, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, and Amare Stoudemire would all drop 35+ on a prime Barkley, right now. No way in hell he could guard those guys. Everyone wants to live in the past but the guys today are better than any era of NBA players ever and the NBA today is the best it has been since '93. It took a decade to get over expansion and salary caps and all the free agency and stuff but todays NBA is loaded with some of the greatest players to ever play in this league.[/QUOTE]

[B]Excuse me dude why is it that Barkley and Jordan always complain about how untalented, soft and unwitty minded are the players of today compred to the 90s and 80s?. Jordan has even claimed at an interview that thee "new Stars are un Unwearthy of the Salaries the get. Me Bird, Magic, Charles, Hakeem we Earned What We Got, We Had A Game that Could Back It Up!.

These soft PFs would not have survived an era with handchecking (had to be way more skilled to go by your opponent or post up), real fauls and, no 3 second rule in the paint, where you would get punished with no remorse etc. Barkley has even claimed once that he just likes to watch Shaq and Jordan play, the league is so non-agressive.

Charles obviously has some good compliments about Duncan and Garnett because they remined him of Kevin McHale (his favorite player ever because he had beutiful moves at 6`10 and 7`2 ft! long arm range), which by the way was way harder to Guard than these untalented overrated 6`11 fts I see today.

Its as simple as this dummy[/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=duncati01[/url]

[B][SIZE="4"]Barkley[/SIZE] vs Duncan

[B]Barkley at Ages 34-36 : Past His Game Prime, Past His Physical Prime, Major Back and Knee Inuries, Overweight over 280 lbs: not even close to the Speed, Potence and Leaping Ability he had before)

Duncan at Ages 22-24: Perfectly Healthy in his Physical Prime[/B]

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Blue"]Barkley:[/COLOR] [/SIZE]

[COLOR="Blue"]MPG: 34.5 (Playing Lesser)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"]PPG: 19.43 [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]FG%: 47.2%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]RPG 13.43 [/COLOR]
ASPG: 2.71
[COLOR="Blue"]SPG: 2.1 [/COLOR]
BPG: 0.57 [COLOR="Blue"]
3-Point FG%: 25%[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Duncan:[/COLOR]

MPG: 38.5 (Playing Longer)

PPG: 16.0
RPG: 10.0
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]ASPG: 4.0[/COLOR]
SPG: 0.29
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]BPG: 1.86 [/COLOR]
3-Point FG%: 0%

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: [/B]

[B]Charles was not Guardable in his Prime. He was TOO QUICK, TOO GOOD OF A BALL HANDLER AND 1 ON 1 DRIVER, TOO STRONG AND COULD LEAP 39 INCHES OF THE GROUND AT OVER 260 LBS. Ask anyone who saw him play from 1985 to 1995. Karl Malone only guarded him in the All Star Matches for Fun in Real Games all the teams had to put in a faster Small Forward that could tire him and was stocky enough to Guard a PF for half of the time and then the other half, put some 6`10, 6`11 Forward-Center type "ala" Ortis Thorpe, Chris Gatling etc to stop him from getting in the paint which he eventually would do: do to his inmense Speed, Strength, Will, Intimidation and 1 on 1 Talent. Add to the fact he could Start Fast Freaks, Fill in Lanes and be A Great Assiter[/B]

[B]Charles Barkley = Goat PF :confusedshrug:[/B]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Just look at the Bulls Centers. '86 Celtics would destroy the Bulls inside.[/QUOTE]

[B]These kids don`t understand what a 20 year old to 32 year old "PRIME": PARISH, BIRD AND McHALE would do to the Bulls frontline. Bulls frontline would Get [U]OWNED OFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY[/U] :hammerhead. The only talent tall enough they had in the Frontline was Toni, whom would probaly add some points but COULD NOT GUARDg: McHale or Bird in their Primes). DJ was an underrated Great lead PG with vision (more than Jordan and Pippen), rebounding skills, strong on Defense and was very clutch shoooter. This guy would own Paxon or Ker at the PG spot.

Pippen would definetly have to play PG because the Celtics would have an enormous height and weight advantage in the Front Line with high a Scoring Efficiency up there in the 60% FG. They would also have Rebounding and Blocking Shot Abilities impossed on the Bulls. Pippen would not take part so much in the Offense from the PG Position, leaving Jordan again like in the 80s for excesive work to score. And as I said Toni would be the second leading scorer because Rodman and Grant are [U]UNTALENTED NON SCORING THREATS in the Forwards Positions [/U]= So this would leave Bulls with a [U]WEAKER DEFENSE in the Front Line[/U].

You then had Bird and Ainge for clutch shooting and 3s (Siestning and some others with high Efficency Spot Shooting). Walton would somee up for some of the time to play along Parish and McHale in the front line leaving Bird as a SG (Their Famous THE TALL LINE UP). This would add another Rebounder and Shot Blocker but with Great Passing Skills that could dish to Bird/Ainge for the outside shot. Pick and Rolls to create or just combinate with McHale.

These kids are dreaming:hammerhead: :violin: [/B]

so true

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]Listen dude. I just prooved to you that those 3 playes would be unguardable easily:confusedshrug: by any Bulls Frontline of the 90s. And then again. McHale-Parish and Bird would not only Dominate Offensively but McHale and Parish would dominante Longley/Wellington or Grant/Rodman in the boards plus would also block more shots! than these dudes. If the Bulls had Paxon and Kerr for a 3-Pointer then the Celtics had Ainge and Bird hismelf. Plus they had Dennis DJ, a Clutch Shooter, a strong Defensive 6`5 PG that could Rebound, Play D and make others better. Then they had Maxwell on the beanch a talented on one one Smallforward/Powerfoward type with great speed and skill. You also had coming from the bench, the toughness and experience of Walton, whom could pass like a Guard from is Center spot, Play D and Rebound.

The Bulls would have no Chance, they would have to force to put in a Taller Squad. Scottie would be forced to play PG (this would lessen his Scoring Opportunities! and Jordan would have to do more of them). In the Post they would have to play with anotehr PF along Rodman or Grant (forget the SF Spot) and these two would have major troubles scoring do to lack of talent and guarding Bird-McHale-Parish in their PRIME is only a dream. No contest!

:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

you didnt prove a damn thing all you did is type it. the bulls dont need any of their centers to out play any of their counterparts. all they had to do is hit the open j if their man helped on a man penetrating. and longley and wennington were excellent jumpshooters. not to mention brian williams with his quickness could score in the post. he averaged 17 and 9 as a clipper playing against some of the best centers ever. the bulls centers were just fine. all that other stuff you typed is nonsense.

[QUOTE=nycelt84]Pippen reached his prime in the mid 90's not the early 90's he was a much better player as the decade went on. Old man with back problems or not Larry Bird was always very good. Rodman did very well against both McHale and Bird both in the '87 and '88 Eastern Conference Finals and that was his rookie year and 2nd year.[/QUOTE]

1987-88 regular season Larry Bird vs Detriot:

[B]12-4-87[/B]. 27 Points. 9 Rebounds. 59 FG%
[B]1-13-88[/B]. 28 Points. 7 Rebounds. 13 Assist. 41 FG%
[B]1-29-88[/B] 25 Points. 11 Rebounds. 8 Assist. 61 FG%
[B]2-28-88[/B] 26 Points. 9 Rebounds. 9 Assist. 46 FG%
[B]4-01-88[/B] 32 Points. 11 Rebounds. 5 assist. 50 FG%
[B]4-19-88[/B] 22 Points. 5 Rebounds. 9 Assist. 53 FG%

1987-88 regular season Kevin McHale vs Detroit:

[B]12-4-87[/B]. 20 Points. 9 Rebounds. 67 FG%
[B]1-13-88[/B]. 31 Points. 7 Rebounds. 69 FG%
[B]1-29-88[/B]. 20 Points. 3 Rebounds. 52% FG
[B]2-28-88[/B]. 33 Points. 11 Rebounds. 63 FG%
[B]4-01-88[/B]. 29 Points. 11 Rebounds. 63 FG%
[B]4-19-88[/B]. 33 Points. 5 Rebounds. 87 FG%

McHale and Bird dominated Detroit and Rodman. NO QUESTION!!!!

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Actually Bird was destroying Pippen in the early 90's when he was an old man and had back problems. Nobody stops a prime Larry Bird. And Rodman would not be able to guard McHale in the post. McHale is just to long for him.

Walton averaged 7.6 PPG? Yes, but the guy did everything on the court. He played Defense, blocked shots, and was a great passer. He did win 6th man of the year in 1986. Don't let the stats fool you.

Phil Jackson is a better coach than K.C. Jones but Jackson is also a beter coach than Doc Rivers and how did that turn out?

The Celtics were better than the Bulls at every position except SG.[/QUOTE]

i really dont ever remember bird an old injured bird owning pippen. PROVE IT
and as far as match ups it depends on how you look at it. as far as scoring the celtics were better in a faster pace league throw about 4 ppgs to the bulls players along with great defense and an extra board or 2 and then compare stats.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]1987-88 regular season Larry Bird vs Detriot:

[B]12-4-87[/B]. 27 Points. 9 Rebounds. 59 FG%
[B]1-13-88[/B]. 28 Points. 7 Rebounds. 13 Assist. 41 FG%
[B]1-29-88[/B] 25 Points. 11 Rebounds. 8 Assist. 61 FG%
[B]2-28-88[/B] 26 Points. 9 Rebounds. 9 Assist. 46 FG%
[B]4-01-88[/B] 32 Points. 11 Rebounds. 5 assist. 50 FG%
[B]4-19-88[/B] 22 Points. 5 Rebounds. 9 Assist. 53 FG%

1987-88 regular season Kevin McHale vs Detroit:

[B]12-4-87[/B]. 20 Points. 9 Rebounds. 67 FG%
[B]1-13-88[/B]. 31 Points. 7 Rebounds. 69 FG%
[B]1-29-88[/B]. 20 Points. 3 Rebounds. 52% FG
[B]2-28-88[/B]. 33 Points. 11 Rebounds. 63 FG%
[B]4-01-88[/B]. 29 Points. 11 Rebounds. 63 FG%
[B]4-19-88[/B]. 33 Points. 5 Rebounds. 87 FG%

McHale and Bird dominated Detroit and Rodman. NO QUESTION!!!![/QUOTE]


[B]Kevin Mchale`s Post Up Game Scoring 27.7 PPG at a FG % of 66.8%!!! HAHAHAHA :bowdown: :hammerhead: against the Bad Boys PRIME Front Line(same Team that Schooled the Bulls from 1984 to 1990).

Bird as always comming up with Triple Double like Numbers:bowdown:

26.7 PPG at a 51.7% FG%, 8.7 RPG and 8.8 ASPG


And this was Bird and McHale [U]PAST Their Physicall Prime [/U]which was 1980 to 1986.

THERE IS NO WAY the BULLS COULD STOP A PRIME 1986 CELTICS:

CENTERS: PARISH-WALTON
FORWARDs: McHALE-BIRD-MAXWELL
GUARDS: BIRD (could play SG)-DJ AND AINGE[/B]

[B]Just Imagine if The Celtics would Put in their Big Line UP with:

C: PARISH
C-F: WALTON
PF: McHALE
SG/SF: BIRD
PG: DJ

Only an Idiot Would Think, The Bulls had A Chance![/B]

[QUOTE=97 bulls]i really dont ever remember bird an old injured bird owning pippen. PROVE IT
and as far as match ups it depends on how you look at it. [B]as far as scoring the celtics were better in a faster pace league [/B]throw about 4 ppgs to the bulls players along with great defense and an extra board or 2 and then compare stats.[/QUOTE]


LOL R U KIDDING ME?? The Celtics were the greatest Half Court Team in NBA History. They might have been better in a slow paced league like the mid 90's.

34 YEAR OLD LARRY BIRD WITH NO BACK vs Scottie Pippen


1990-91 regular season:
11-06-90. 24 Points. 11 Rebounds.
11-09-90. 23 Points. 8 Rebounds. 5 assist.
2-26-91. 12 points. 7 rebounds. 5 assist
3-31-91. 34 Points. 15 Rebounds. 8 assist

Can you imagine how bad Bird would of tourched Pippen in his prime?????

[QUOTE=97 bulls]i really dont ever remember bird an old injured bird owning pippen. PROVE IT
and as far as match ups it depends on how you look at it. as far as scoring the celtics were better in a faster pace league throw about 4 ppgs to the bulls players along with great defense and an extra board or 2 and then compare stats.[/QUOTE]

[B]Wrong the Celtics loved the Frontline-Post Up-Slow Game and Ruled The NBA with their Front-Line Witty Game. That is The Way they faced the Lakers (which was the ONLY Succesfull team playing A Fast Tempo Game, that is why they where called ShowTime because people loved their Winning at that Style). The Rest of the NBA Could Not Win With That Style, They Could Only Dream of Playing a Fast Paced Style and Beating Eastern Teams, Only the Lakers Could!

Plus in 1986 Celtics could Play both Styles and they Swept the Rockets with a HAKEEM-SAMSON (FRONTLINE!). The Team that Beat the 1986 Lakers with A PRIME MAGIC, A PRIME WORTHY and KAREEM still Scoring over 22-26 PPG with a FG% of 52-56% plus All The Crew: GREEN, SCOTT, COOPER etc[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]These kids don`t understand what a 20 year old to 32 year old "PRIME": PARISH, BIRD AND McHALE would do to the Bulls frontline. Bulls frontline would Get [U]OWNED OFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY[/U] :hammerhead. The only talent tall enough they had in the Frontline was Toni, whom would probaly add some points but COULD NOT GUARDg: McHale or Bird in their Primes). DJ was an underrated Great lead PG with vision (more than Jordan and Pippen), rebounding skills, strong on Defense and was very clutch shoooter. This guy would own Paxon or Ker at the PG spot.

Pippen would definetly have to play PG because the Celtics would have an enormous height and weight advantage in the Front Line with high a Scoring Efficiency up there in the 60% FG. They would also have Rebounding and Blocking Shot Abilities impossed on the Bulls. Pippen would not take part so much in the Offense from the PG Position, leaving Jordan again like in the 80s for excesive work to score. And as I said Toni would be the second leading scorer because Rodman and Grant are [U]UNTALENTED NON SCORING THREATS in the Forwards Positions [/U]= So this would leave Bulls with a [U]WEAKER DEFENSE in the Front Line[/U].

You then had Bird and Ainge for clutch shooting and 3s (Siestning and some others with high Efficency Spot Shooting). Walton would somee up for some of the time to play along Parish and McHale in the front line leaving Bird as a SG (Their Famous THE TALL LINE UP). This would add another Rebounder and Shot Blocker but with Great Passing Skills that could dish to Bird/Ainge for the outside shot. Pick and Rolls to create or just combinate with McHale.

These kids are dreaming:hammerhead: :violin: [/B][/QUOTE]

first of all im 34 and remember the 80s.you on the other hand on several occasions have referred to dennis johnon as the pg. let me help you ainge was the pg dj was the sg. the bulls also had a big line up. their staring guards were 6'6 taller than ainge and johnson not to mention harper was a pretty good basketball player himself.

second you you and 87 lakers obviously dont know the Xs and Os of basketball or never played it, and if you did you probably arent any good because you would know that you had to keep a man on rodman because of his offensive rebounding capability. not to mention by ron harpers own addmitsion he could still have been a 20ppg scorer but played his role on the bulls team defending the other teams pg and he did a hell of a job defending players like payton, stockton, and penny hardaway.i dont see him having a problem with ainge. not to mention the bulls could go even bigger if they opted to play kukoc at sf move pippen to pg and put williams at center. and why would pippen not be able to score from the pg position?

pippen 6'7 ainge 6'5
jordan 6'6 johnson 6'5
kukoc 6'11 bird 6'8
rodman 6'8 mchale 6'10
williams 6'11 parrish 7'0

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]The 1996 Bulls are more athletic, better defensively on the perimeter with Jordan, Harper, Pippen . Rodman could provide more than capable interior defense and chip in points too. The willowy Kukoc and Kerr both can knock down open Js. The 1986 Celtics with Bird at his peak then are the epitome of toughness. McHale, Parish with a healthy Bill Walton who won Sixth Man of The Year that season as a triumvirate is an overwhelming front line. Dennis Johnson was still an elite defender with the streaky Ainge as his running mate. Sichting and Wedman are as reliable as the Bulls' trio of ivory snipers though Wedman IMO is much better than Buechler any day. The series would probably be the classic OK Corral shootout between Jordan and Bird. Jordan could score on DJ though he will have to work for them to some degree. Same goes with Bird with Pippen covering him though Larry Legend's deep reserves of will and heart are well chronicled. I'd give Bird the edge in that matchup even though Pip was a stellar defender. Would Rodman and company have slowed down McHale and Parish in the post? No unless the Worm could get into McHale's head. Parish would outplay Longley and Wennington... Heck, the then resurrected Big Redhead would outplay Longley and Wennington if he was a starter. If the 1996 Bulls get out in transition, the slower Celtics would be at a disadvantage. Half court? The mighty Celtic frontcourt would feast where they will pound it inside. Bird can score on the post too along with ruggedly hitting the glass for rebounds. It is THE factor that would decide the series. Offensive and defensive rebounding edge to the Celtics EVEN with the electric Rodman on the floor. You can't run when you constantly have to pull the ball from the basket then have to inbound it. Home floor factor? Not even close. I'd go with Boston Garden with its cramped visitor locker rooms, rats in the showers, the inside heat on the floor, the rabid fans that could make Attila's Huns look like a Sunday church group are intimidating. Not too mention the false fire alarms, crank phone calls during off days between games in that lovely city. Winner of this fantasy series? [B]I call the Celtics in six.[/B][/QUOTE]

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