A guy in NZ just live streamed himself shooting up a mosque

[QUOTE=red1]It would never happen. You would get pushback from muslims in western countries as well. I know that because I am one of them.

A country's laws should be secular with the freedom to practice religion. The united states constitution got that right.[/QUOTE]

Right - it's just hard to believe the trope of "majority of muslims are ok" when you know, clearly that isn't correct. If that's how those countries want to operate, fine, but western countries should be free to criticize those countries' government without fear of being called "racist" or "islamophobic." US military should leave them alone as well.

I don't deny there are cultural muslims in western countries that don't really practice islam that are cool but one of the weirdest things to me is that even the everyday muslim has this weird obsession with Palestine and Israel even though they've never even been there. It's like they are all united in that. Even the ones that don't even really practice.

I think it's kinda like Ilhan Omar - she brings up some legit points about Israel (making US policy that is more geared towards Israel than US) but quickly gets claimed as anti-semitic. She may actually be anti-semitic herself but a couple of her points were legit. Legitimate cultural/religious criticism shouldn't be deemed as untouchable or islamophobic which currently happens amongst the current dominant leftist culture.

Just an example that would rub people the wrong way - there was this indonesian guy that worked with us in the field and operated a piece of equipment that is pretty critical to real time operations. We tried contacting him on the radio while an operation was going on since there was an issue and he wasn't responding so we thought there was something wrong with him. A guy jumped on the piece of equipment and saw he was praying on top of the equipment and was completely abdicating his responsibility almost resulting in a failure. When asked, he said, "I have to pray. It's my religion." A failure like that would indict everyone on the crew and would be really, really difficult to explain to the customer. And then if you discipline the guy? You run the risk of being criticized of being discriminatory. So nothing happens.

That's the kind of stuff that's going to rub people the wrong way - sure they will follow the law but there are certain cultural expectations of the country you're in and people of that country expect it to be followed. The country isn't set up for 5 prayers a day like Indonesia is and when you go to Australia, well you have to accept that. I've done the same as an american going to another country. To be fair - that never happened again with him but people never forgot it.

[QUOTE=Hawker]Right - it's just hard to believe the trope of "majority of muslims are ok" when you know, clearly that isn't correct. If that's how those countries want to operate, fine, but western countries should be free to criticize those countries' government without fear of being called "racist" or "islamophobic." US military should leave them alone as well.

I don't deny there are cultural muslims in western countries that don't really practice islam that are cool but one of the weirdest things to me is that even the everyday muslim has this weird obsession with Palestine and Israel even though they've never even been there. It's like they are all united in that. Even the ones that don't even really practice.

I think it's kinda like Ilhan Omar - she brings up some legit points about Israel (making US policy that is more geared towards Israel than US) but quickly gets claimed as anti-semitic. She may actually be anti-semitic herself but a couple of her points were legit. Legitimate cultural/religious criticism shouldn't be deemed as untouchable or islamophobic which currently happens amongst the current dominant leftist culture.

Just an example that would rub people the wrong way - there was this indonesian guy that worked with us in the field and operated a piece of equipment that is pretty critical to real time operations. We tried contacting him on the radio while an operation was going on since there was an issue and he wasn't responding so we thought there was something wrong with him. A guy jumped on the piece of equipment and saw he was praying on top of the equipment and was completely abdicating his responsibility almost resulting in a failure. When asked, he said, "I have to pray. It's my religion." A failure like that would indict everyone on the crew and would be really, really difficult to explain to the customer. And then if you discipline the guy? You run the risk of being criticized of being discriminatory. So nothing happens.

That's the kind of stuff that's going to rub people the wrong way - sure they will follow the law but there are certain cultural expectations of the country you're in and people of that country expect it to be followed. The country isn't set up for 5 prayers a day like Indonesia is and when you go to Australia, well you have to accept that. I've done the same as an american going to another country. To be fair - that never happened again with him but people never forgot it.[/QUOTE]
My argument with chewing has nothing to do with criticizing muslim countries. Muslim countries deserve criticism. It has everything to do with criticizing all muslims in western countries saying [B]all muslims [/B]are bloodthirsty all muslims are this, all muslims are that, blah blah blah. I hear that a lot and it's not accurate so I correct it when I see it.

The criticism of Ilhan Omar is a joke and anyone with a brain can see that. Who knows she may very well be antisemitic I don't know. Nothing she said warranted the reaction she got. It's just the nature of the game, everything is fair game in the political arena and every tweet is potential ammo to be used. The right gets smeared for being racist so they just used the same play in reverse and the democrats being the p[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ssies that they are started scrambling in their usual backpedaling pandering manner.

Religious beliefs are never an excuse for incompetence. The guy in your example made a critical mistake. He should've made it clear in advance if he was going to pray and should have done it a better way. That applies tenfold if his absence on the job would affect other people. Good for him that he learned from his mistake. Your team had every right to be annoyed by that coworker and I'm sure you have several muslim coworkers who did not pray on top equipment. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Primitive death cult religion will never be the mainstream in modernized countries. Sorry, pal. Plenty of Muslim reformers agree with me. Why subjugate your women? Why follow a violent ideology such as Sharia? No thanks. Ya'll may walk the streets of London and Toronto and feel modernized, but your brains are still back in the stone age.[/QUOTE]

We subjugate women because there's a dress code for both genders?

That's an indictment on you more than anything, that you reduce a woman to what she wears instead of who she is.

[QUOTE=red1]My argument with chewing has nothing to do with criticizing muslim countries. Muslim countries deserve criticism. It has everything to do with criticizing all muslims in western countries saying [B]all muslims [/B]are bloodthirsty all muslims are this, all muslims are that, blah blah blah. I hear that a lot and it's not accurate so I correct it when I see it.

[B]The criticism of Ilhan Omar is a joke and anyone with a brain can see that. Who knows she may very well be antisemitic I don't know.[/B] Nothing she said warranted the reaction she got. It's just the nature of the game, everything is fair game in the political arena and every tweet is potential ammo to be used. The right gets smeared for being racist so they just used the same play in reverse and the democrats being the p[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ssies that they are started scrambling in their usual backpedaling pandering manner.

Religious beliefs are never an excuse for incompetence. The guy in your example made a critical mistake. He should've made it clear in advance if he was going to pray and should have done it a better way. That applies tenfold if his absence on the job would affect other people. Good for him that he learned from his mistake. Your team had every right to be annoyed by that coworker and I'm sure you have several muslim coworkers who did not pray on top equipment. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]


:lol

Does she have to come out and verbally say she hates Jews and wishes they were all dead? How about Linda Sarsour? Oh boy she's a beauty. Crazy how that Radical Islamist is allowed to cozy up to leaders like Omar and Tlaib.

[QUOTE=lilteapot]We subjugate women because there's a dress code for both genders?

That's an indictment on you more than anything, that you reduce a woman to what she wears instead of who she is.[/QUOTE]


Incorrect and deceitful. I am reducing women to having the freedoms to do as they please. Like vote, drive a car, and not wear a hijab because her husband demands it. Which is actually placing women on equal footing with men. Something the Feminists on the Left seem to always ignore when discussing how women are treated in the Arab world.

If a woman, married or not, wants to wear a bikini or jeans or let her hair loose, she should have every right to.

How do the rape laws work in Sharia? A woman has to have three male witnesses that witnessed the rape in order for her to even bring her attacker to justice? Seems fair enough.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]:lol

Does she have to come out and verbally say she hates Jews and wishes they were all dead? How about Linda Sarsour? Oh boy she's a beauty. Crazy how that Radical Islamist is allowed to cozy up to leaders like Omar and Tlaib.[/QUOTE]
You need to learn how to read. I outright said who knows what her views are. You don't know. I don't know. We're talking about her comments. She criticized a lobby's influence in washington - the entire purpose of a lobby is to influence legislation in washington and that applies for every single lobby. And she did raise a good point. Why does a lobby representing a foreign government carry so much clout in DC?

She also criticized saudi arabia and said we should boycott the Saudis and that muslims should boycott the hajj until they figure out their human rights laws.

Is she an islamophobe as well?

[QUOTE=lilteapot]We subjugate women because there's a dress code for both genders?

That's an indictment on you more than anything, that you reduce a woman to what she wears instead of who she is.[/QUOTE]

There certainly isn't a dress code for both genders dude. Just for one. Muslim dudes in western countries pretty much wear (for some reason they are always graphic tees) whatever while the women are still wearing what they wore back in their home country.

Red1, this is what I'm talking about btw, not culturally assimilating.

If you're forcing a dress code on someone, that's subjugating. "Who she is" can extend and expressed in how they dress.

[QUOTE=Hawker]There certainly isn't a dress code for both genders dude. Just for one. Muslim dudes in western countries pretty much wear (for some reason they are always graphic tees) whatever while the women are still wearing what they wore back in their home country.

Red1, this is what I'm talking about btw, not culturally assimilating.

If you're forcing a dress code on someone, that's subjugating. "Who she is" can extend and expressed in how they dress.[/QUOTE]
Manner of dress is cultural nearly as much as it is religious. I don't see lilteapot saying anywhere that western women should dress that way.


Live and let live. No need to impose anything on anyone.

[QUOTE=red1]My argument with chewing has nothing to do with criticizing muslim countries. Muslim countries deserve criticism. It has everything to do with criticizing all muslims in western countries saying [B]all muslims [/B]are bloodthirsty all muslims are this, all muslims are that, blah blah blah. I hear that a lot and it's not accurate so I correct it when I see it.

The criticism of Ilhan Omar is a joke and anyone with a brain can see that. Who knows she may very well be antisemitic I don't know. Nothing she said warranted the reaction she got. It's just the nature of the game, everything is fair game in the political arena and every tweet is potential ammo to be used. The right gets smeared for being racist so they just used the same play in reverse and the democrats being the p[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ssies that they are started scrambling in their usual backpedaling pandering manner.

Religious beliefs are never an excuse for incompetence. The guy in your example made a critical mistake. He should've made it clear in advance if he was going to pray and should have done it a better way. That applies tenfold if his absence on the job would affect other people. Good for him that he learned from his mistake. Your team had every right to be annoyed by that coworker and I'm sure you have several muslim coworkers who did not pray on top equipment. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

He's actually the only one but something like that should be fairly obvious - putting the religion as the absolute first thing without consideration for others is an issue.

[QUOTE=red1]Manner of dress is cultural nearly as much as it is religious. I don't see lilteapot saying anywhere that western women should dress that way.


Live and let live. No need to impose anything on anyone.[/QUOTE]

Right - but the culture is one of imposing a dress code on a woman. And religion and culture are clearly tied to each other. if lilteapot, doesn't live in a western country, fine.

And coming into a western country, maybe they should be adopting the culture of that country. Also, it's just incredibly impractical to wear one of those things when it's so damn hot.

[QUOTE=red1]It has everything to do with criticizing all muslims in western countries saying [B]all muslims [/B]are bloodthirsty all muslims are this, all muslims are that, blah blah blah. I hear that a lot and it's not accurate so I correct it when I see it.
[/QUOTE]


And this is fake news, bro. Never said or implied anything of the sort. If there are Muslims that I support, it's the radical ones that want to reform the religion.

[QUOTE=Hawker]He's actually the only one but something like that should be fairly obvious - [B]putting the religion as the absolute first thing without consideration for others is an issue.[/B][/QUOTE]
And I absolutely agree with that. That's common sense dude.[QUOTE=Hawker]Right - but the culture is one of imposing a dress code on a woman. And religion and culture are clearly tied to each other. if lilteapot, doesn't live in a western country, fine.

[B]And coming into a western country, maybe they should be adopting the culture of that country.[/B] Also, it's just incredibly impractical to wear one of those things when it's so damn hot.[/QUOTE]
That's common sense too. If you live in a country you have to respect it's laws and traditions. If a woman wants to wear a hijab as her religious belief then that's her right so I'm not referring to that.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing][B]And this is fake news, bro. [/B] Never said or implied anything of the sort. If there are Muslims that I support, it's the radical ones that want to reform the religion.[/QUOTE]
No it's not. You must have poor memory as well because this isn't the first time we've gone back and forth. I know that you're trolling but I also know that you believe the filth that you post.

Either way you're not my enemy. I'll probably leave you alone. You just need to interact with more people that have different views than you.

[QUOTE=red1]The criticism of Ilhan Omar is a joke and anyone with a brain can see that. Who knows she may very well be antisemitic I don't know. Nothing she said warranted the reaction she got. It's just the nature of the game, everything is fair game in the political arena and every tweet is potential ammo to be used. The right gets smeared for being racist so they just used the same play in reverse and the democrats being the p[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]ssies that they are started scrambling in their usual backpedaling pandering manner.[/QUOTE]
In politics, you should generally have the decency to assume your opponents actually believe what they claim to believe. Being a fair and objective person, I

I swear Patrick has me worried, posts nothing but Islamophobia yet again, yea damn these Muzzlemzzz for dying, waste of bullets or something.... like he condones this type of shit happening... dude has that terrorist (but not enough psycho to go out and shoot up random muzzies) vibe about him...