The Bulls will regret their decision if they draft Rose over Beasley

[QUOTE=aj1987]Yes. He was. Don't kid yourself. Rose was on an incredible defensive team. The Bulls beat their opponents with their defense. As I said, swap Wade and Rose. The Bulls would take the Heat to 7 in the ECF. They probably would win more games in the RS as well.

Defense - Wade
Scoring - Wade

Wade literally does everything better than Rose.

26/6/5/2/1 on 58% in the RS vs 25/4/8/1/1 on

Yeah, he played poorly against the Bulls, who were the best defensive team in the NBA. He did score 30/7/5/2/1 on 62% TS against the #2 defense in the ECSF.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]
They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]They were 23 and 28th in offense without Rose. Carrying and winning with a young inexperienced team is very different than being the second best player on your team. No exceptions.

Wade has never had any success carrying a big offensive burden in like 12 years now. In his best year '09 it didn't happen.[/QUOTE]
Do you know who Wade's teammates were in '09? Whenever he had even a decent team around him, he made deep playoff runs. Carry offensive burden? Yeah, Rose and his 25 PPG carried the Bulls to 60+ wins and the ECF. Not the team defense. :facepalm

I still don't understand why people who have never seen pre-decision Wade post about him. Rose is not even on the same tier as Wade as a player.

[B]Originally Posted by Pointguard[/B]
Deng was steady, and consistent through out the year. Rarely ever has a 30 point game. Didn't get more than 21 points in a game that series despite them throwing the kitchen sink at Rose. Boozer and Noah were both benched twice in fourth quarters in that series. Could you imagine Lebron and Bosh being benched in the fourth quarters??? Boozer did not know the offensive sets and often got in Rose's way. Noah was a 6/10 guy in that series. Noah just wasn't a good player and should have been benched. And this is what you are comparing to Lebron and Bosh to.
[QUOTE=aj1987]Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm [/quote]
I didn't say anything there remotely like that. Noah and Boozer weren't great for the team in that series. If Lebron and Bosh played as ineffective, Chicago would have destroyed Miami. Especially with Rose taking Wade off his game. And that wasn't a team effort.
[quote]
As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team. [/quote]
See above.

[quote]
I've seen a ton of Bulls games and Rose was never a good defender. He was average at best. Meanwhile, Wade was probably the 2nd best defender on the Heat. [/quote]
What games were you watching? You are a Heat guy - you seen Rose work Wade. How is it that you didn't watch those games. You think every elite point guard just had bad games. That's a big coincidence. Something that escaped Wade his entire career when their were way less effective SG.

[B]Originally Posted by Pointguard[/B]
The team had the best perimeter defense where there is less help than any place on the floor. The only penetrating point guards in the league were Parker and Paul. I don't recall Paul playing them that year and Rose routinely kills Parker anyway. So team defense had little to do with anything. Nice try though.
[quote]
What? Wade can guard PG-SF. Is more versatile and a MUCH better defensive player than Rose EVER was or EVER will be. [/quote]
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote??? You just respond to yourself after quoting me??? This is the second time you've done this in this one post? You got concentration problems?
[quote]
Wade struggled the ENTIRE series. You think Rose can actually "shutdown" Wade? :oldlol:
[/quote]
Sorry dude, when you are the second best player on the team, you shouldn't have the convenience of an excuse maker. Wade did well when Rose wasn't guarding him. Sorry it was directly related to Rose playing him. I'm sure you got another "beta" excuse.

[quote]
What does that have to do with swapping Wade and Rose? Wade is a flat out better player than Rose ever Wade or ever will be. [/quote]
Sorry, second best player on his team can't claim the brunt of success, responsibility or transformation of a team moreso than a main player. When Lebron played bad Wade couldn't help. That's bad. The winning was on Lebron's shoulders. Lebron had Rose's responsibility in carrying the team. Wade is on another level - [B]one of less responsibility and effectiveness.[/B]
[quote]
Doesn't change the [B]fact[/B] that the team outside the big 3 was GARBAGE. [/quote]

Sorry guy. Top talent wins in this league more so than any other quality. They had veteran role players and were expected to be much better than Chicago.
[quote]
13 PPG Shaq was a huge offensive distraction, right? [B]Idiot[/B]. What has Rose accomplished? Other than the MVP (which should've rightfully gone to LeBron/Dwight/Dirk) he won? Shot 6% in the clutch in the ECF. Shot 49% TS in the entire playoffs. Give him a slightly worse team, and the Bulls would be back in the lottery. [/quote]

:lol ok clown, now that I know know you just don't watch games or have zero knowledge of it, and will lie and name call to make yourself look like something of a fan Shaq was getting 20ppg and was still the most deadly player in the deep post in the game and shooting over 60%. Even if you don't have your stats right, you aren't blind. You don't know what you are talking about and just clueless hater without even a pretense of knowing what the game is about.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Do you know who Wade's teammates were in '09? Whenever he had even a decent team around him, he made deep playoff runs. Carry offensive burden? Yeah, Rose and his 25 PPG carried the Bulls to 60+ wins and the ECF. Not the team defense. :facepalm [/quote]
The team had the best perimeter defense. Rose contained all of the elite at his position. He controlled the pace of the game which was key to them winning. Sorry he was a key part of team defense.
[quote]
I still don't understand why people who have never seen pre-decision Wade post about him. Rose is not even on the same tier as Wade as a player.[/QUOTE]
Sorry you pay for teaming up with other players, and a better player and not delivering. Wade doesn't get Alpha status when he [B]volunteered to be a Beta.[/B] Plain and simple. Unfortunately that is his reality. He was a great player before that. I have no problem with that. He was better than Rose when he was in charge. But if he can't step up, after coasting on a better player all year, on his team - he shouldn't be compared to other guys that got that responsibility of carrying a team with some success.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]I didn't say anything there remotely like that. Noah and Boozer weren't great for the team in that series. If Lebron and Bosh played as ineffective, Chicago would have destroyed Miami. Especially with Rose taking Wade off his game. And that wasn't a team effort.[/quote]
Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]What games were you watching? You are a Heat guy - you seen Rose work Wade. How is it that you didn't watch those games. You think every elite point guard just had bad games. That's a big coincidence. Something that escaped Wade his entire career when their were way less effective SG.[/quote]
Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]This has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote??? You just respond to yourself after quoting me??? This is the second time you've done this in this one post? You got concentration problems?[/quote]
Can't you read simple English? We're comparing two players. Wade's defense >>>> Rose's defense. It's as simple as that.

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry dude, when you are the second best player on the team, you shouldn't have the convenience of an excuse maker. Wade did well when Rose wasn't guarding him. Sorry it was directly related to Rose playing him. I'm sure you got another "beta" excuse.[/quote]
FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.


[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry, second best player on his team can't claim the brunt of success, responsibility or transformation of a team moreso than a main player. When Lebron played bad Wade couldn't help. That's bad. The winning was on Lebron's shoulders. Lebron had Rose's responsibility in carrying the team. Wade is on another level - [B]one of less responsibility and effectiveness.[/B][/quote]
Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry guy. Top talent wins in this league more so than any other quality. They had veteran role players and were expected to be much better than Chicago.[/quote]
They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.


[QUOTE=Pointguard]:lol ok clown, now that I know know you just don't watch games or have zero knowledge of it, and will lie and name call to make yourself look like something of a fan Shaq was getting 20ppg and was still the most deadly player in the deep post in the game and shooting over 60%. Even if you don't have your stats right, you aren't blind. You don't know what you are talking about and just clueless hater without even a pretense of knowing what the game is about.[/QUOTE]
Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]The team had the best perimeter defense. Rose contained all of the elite at his position. He controlled the pace of the game which was key to them winning. Sorry he was a key part of team defense.[/quote]
:roll:

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

Rose is an average defender at his BEST. Dude is not even on rookie Wade's level defensively.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Sorry you pay for teaming up with other players, and a better player and not delivering. Wade doesn't get Alpha status when he [B]volunteered to be a Beta.[/B] Plain and simple. Unfortunately that is his reality. He was a great player before that. I have no problem with that. He was better than Rose when he was in charge. But if he can't step up, after coasting on a better player all year, on his team - he shouldn't be compared to other guys that got that responsibility of carrying a team with some success.[/QUOTE]
A Rose stan talking about being beta? Ironic. :oldlol:

Anyways, we're talking about '11. The year when Wade averaged more points that LeBron in the Playoffs. The year when they were 1a and 1b. Try to keep up, Mr. Special needs.

I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.

The overrating of Rose is ludicrous.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?
[/quote]
Surely you know Noah and Boozer missed a ton of games and hardly played well together. The five game sample illustrated their yearly issue.
[quote]
Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close. [/quote] Sorry you aren't an elite defender if another player has to guard your player at critical times of the game. Rose was a much better defender than given credit for. Most people don't know how much pace affects the game and its under defense.

And once again I am talking about Rose holding Wade better than I seen any player hold a healthy Wade in the post season. You keep running from that.

[quote]
Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying? [/quote]
Curry wasn't an elite player at that time, sorry, he had little impact on the game and his team was 10 games under 500. One game he got his average 17 points and Bulls blew them out by 30. But he did get 23 in the other game in a win. Once again he's a hot new player that wasn't really elite.

Rose destroyed SA that year. TP got 26 points in a blow out loss where Rose had 40 something when the game was critical to both of them. And Rose dominated him in that game. TP did get 2.5 points higher than his '11 average in the early season game (20 points which isn't really a good game).

Westbrook and Rose in the first game had 28 points on each other in the first game of the season before the Bulls coach got his injured team together. The second game Brook was held to 40% shooting and 15 points.

[quote]
FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.
[/quote]
All of that is perception. But good try.

[quote]
Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series. [/quote]
:lol Ohhh right it was a 9 game series. :oldlol:

[quote]
They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.
[/quote]
:lol Really, you're kidding me? And Wade was the step down Beta, when they needed it?
[quote]
Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.
[/quote]
To say he wasn't garnering super attention on the blocks is monumental foolishness. Wade averaged an incredible 35ppg that series. And he doesn't get half the respect Dirk does - the same guy that he beat in that series. Wonder why??? He wasn't even considered the best shooting guard the next year. Wasn't even clear he was the Alpha on that team when he played his butt off - I actually thought he was but read the boards here.

[quote]
I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.[/QUOTE]
Beta roll with the punches. Beta yet, maybe not. Sorry if you team up with the best player you can't have excuses.

Don't get me wrong Wade is a great player but if you step down off of the leader stage you better be the best second best player without excuses. Only stans are going to make excuses for you. On Inside Edition other players were saying Penny and Tmac were better than Wade. So don't say it's only me clown. And through out your life people will and should always respect the person taking over the helm with energy than the guy stepping down off of it. Rose had way more responsibility, and was the key to his team. Wade was stepping down and wasn't the key to his team.

Biiiig Difference.

[QUOTE=SugarHill]The overrating of Rose is ludicrous.[/QUOTE]

Defend yourself. I have repeated myself here a number of times. I view a guy with a ton of responsibilities and being the key to his team winning better than I do a guy that's willing makes himself number two. On "Open Court" Wade was dogged because of this very same reason. I think Wade in his prime is a straight up beast. One of the best 2 guards ever, top 3 of the ones I ever seen play. But when a guy steps off the stage he loses a lot of shine. And in 2011, he did something that can only be rectified by winning it all or an incredible year.

My premise is that you can't be granted the two spot if you walk away from the one spot.

Back then I'm sure most people picked Beasley. Beasley was an absolute beast in college. He was supposed to be robin to wade but then 2010 happened.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Are you trying to say that Rose carried that team? :facepalm

As I said, that team was DAMN good defensively and has two 15+ PPG scorers. [B]Stop pretending like Wade wouldn't get the same/better results with that team[/B].


[/QUOTE]

how do idiots get away with saying stuff like this. wade in 2011 had a better team than rose and the heat still had a worst record not to mention a losing record against elite teams. rose in 2011 carried the bulls in a rediculous way similar to 2006 dwyane wade, and i havent seen dwyane wade play like that since then.

OP, what does it feel like to have intelligence that rivals Will Hunting?

[QUOTE=aj1987]Why are you bringing up a FIVE game sample, when I was talking about the whole year?


Yeah, LOL! You must be the only person in the world who thinks Rose is a good defender. Dude is AVERAGE. Do you think his team had nothing to do with it?
As I said, Wade was an elite defender. Rose wasn't even remotely close.


Can't you read simple English? We're comparing two players. Wade's defense >>>> Rose's defense. It's as simple as that.

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?


FACT: The Heat curb stomped the Bulls.
FACT: The Rose is an AVERAGE defender.
FACT: The Bulls team defense bothered Wade and his shot was off.



[B]Are you legit retarded or just trolling? Can't tell. [/B]What does any of that have to do with Wade being a significantly better player than Rose? If you're bringing up the Finals, LeBron sucked ass and Dirk was incredible in the clutch. If Rose was on the Heat in the Finals, Miami would've gotten SWEPT. Lets also not forget Wade's injury in game 5, which affected him the rest of the series.


They were expected to be better because the BIG 3, moron.



Listen up, shit for brains. Shaq sucked ass in the Finals. The same Shaq who averaged 13 PPG. Shaq was also an average to below average defender in '06. What happened to Shaq when Wade went down in the 2005 ECF? Is your dumbass also gonna pretend that the Heat were even remotely close to being good outside these two? Again, '11 Rose on the '05 and '06 Heat would've resulted in 2nd round losses at BEST. How are you gonna act like you know ANYTHING about basketball, when you think Rose is a better overall player than Wade? Or that Wade can't "take over" games? Or that Wade can't win without another offensive player? Oh, and Shaq averaged 18 PPG in the '06 Playoffs. 19 the previous year.


:roll:

Rose sucked ass against the Thunder, TP averaged 6 PPG more than his RS average against Rose, Curry averaged more than his RS average, etc. You were saying?

Rose is an average defender at his BEST. Dude is not even on rookie Wade's level defensively.


A Rose stan talking about being beta? Ironic. :oldlol:

Anyways, we're talking about '11. The year when Wade averaged more points that LeBron in the Playoffs. The year when they were 1a and 1b. [B]Try to keep up, Mr. Special needs.
[/B]
I'm done with this discussion. It's pretty clear that you're biased to the point of being delusional. For the final time, Wade > Rose offensively and defensively. Wade > Rose as a player and it's not even close.[/QUOTE]


Is there really a need to get personal? Pointguard is simply laying out his reasoning and you start calling him names..

You lose all credibility by saying Wade is better than Rose as a player and it's not even close. :hammerhead:

Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Wade was better than Rose and it's not too close.

Outscored him in the regular season, outrebounded him averaged more blocks and steals on WAY better efficiency while losing shots to Lebron.
MUCH Better defender that year.
Poido youre delusional if you think Wade didnt receive a ton of defensivr attention because of Lebron:roll:

Wades series against Boston and Dallas that year blow away anything that Rose did in the playoffs that year.

Im on my phone so I'm not going to answer pointguards points till tomorrow night. But the overrating of Rose needs to stop.[/QUOTE]

heres some stats that will show rose played better than wade that season. Against elite competition which i accounted the top 4 teams in each conference, whom consisted of boston, chicago, orlando, miami, spurs, mavs, lakers and okc.

dwyane wade stats against those teams in 2010-11 were
21.4 points and 4.1 assists leading his team to a 7-12 record against those teams(a losing record)

rose's stats against those elite teams were
26.9 points and 6.7 assists and leading his team to 12-6 reason(a winning record).

womp womp, take your garbage basketball IQ somewhere else. The underating of roses mvp season needs to stop. idiots claiming westbrook and wade were better, what a ****ing joke. :roll:

[B][SIZE="4"]wade vs rose against elite teams in 2011

wade 21.4 points and 4.1 assists (7-12)

rose 26.9 points and 6.7 assists (12-6)

[B]wade was better?????? makes sense????[/B]


[/SIZE][/B]