2022 off season Post Gobert. A new era begins

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/08/18/ranking-the-top-10-guards-in-utah-jazz-history/[/url]

[QUOTE]Despite never tasting NBA Championship success, the Utah Jazz have been one of the most consistent franchises in the NBA over the past 40 years, and over that time, they’ve hosted some legendary names. Names like Adrian Dantley, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gobert and the iconic Karl Malone have all donned the famous Jazz Note, but today, we are going to take a special look at the guards that made this franchise what it is today.[/QUOTE]

1 name out of place there :facepalm


[QUOTE][h=3]9. Jordan Clarkson[/h][/QUOTE]

my least favorite Jazzman ever and that's saying something. Hard to watch him play even on the rare occasion he is hitting his prayers

[QUOTE][h=3]8. Jeff Malone[/h][/QUOTE]

another of my least favorites. Acquired to extend the D so Malone could work inside. The problem was his game was 10-15 feet! Would have been happy if they'd cut him and they got Horny for him!

[QUOTE]After moving to Utah from New Orleans, the Jazz franchise continued to struggle, but it was due to players like Rickey Green that they were able to move out of that phase, as he was integral to the teams first ever playoff berth, as he played hards on both ends of the floor and was an electric player for this franchise night in, night out. Green put together some great seasons in Utah, but his best was in 1984, when he tallied 13 points, 9 assists and 3 steals per game, en route to his first and only All-Star appearance, but ultimately, a young guy named John Stockton would come in and after a year or two of pressuring Green, would ultimately take the starting point guard spot from him.

[/QUOTE]

Ricky was one of the best pgs in the league for a few years but should have been traded as soon as they got Stockton. He was that good! Instead they lost him in the expansion draft for nothing

[QUOTE]At the peak of his career, Griffith was averaging 22 points per game, but as he went on, the Jazz found players like Stockton and Malone, and began phasing him out as a top option, and after all the years of high-flying, his body was really starting to pay the price. Ultimately, he’ll be remembered fondly by Jazz fans from that era, but for most, he’ll be overshadowed by the emergence of the players that ended up taking Utah to the next level, but he should be remembered for what he did for Utah in the early 80’s.

[/QUOTE]

He was phased out because he held out for more money. Playing behind the stiff Hansen. He actually got better as he aged as his D and ball handling improved

[QUOTE][h=3]5. Jeff Hornacek[/h][/QUOTE]

I'd have him 4th without a doubt

[QUOTE][h=3]2. Donovan Mitchell[/h][/QUOTE]

ahead of a HOFer? :lol

[QUOTE]Mitchell has faced plenty of criticism for his lack of defensive intensity over the past season or so, but as an offensive threat, there are few better shooting guards in today’s NBA, with an ability to score the basketball at will in many different ways. He may not have the accolades of a Deron Williams or Pete Maravich, but as an individual player, Donovan has solidified himself as one of the best players in the league today, and with Rudy Gobert now gone, he can lead this team as his own now, and it’s only a matter of time until the awards and recognition follow.

[/QUOTE]

he may never even be an all star again

no Gail Goodrich? :facepalm

[QUOTE] [URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]The Jazz and Knicks are in discussions on a trade that would send Donovan Mitchell to New York, according to sources. A deal is not considered imminent yet,[/URL] but the Knicks are motivated to acquire Mitchell and have proposed new packages to Utah’s new front office led by CEO Danny Ainge.

– via [URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]Shams Charania @ The Athletic[/URL]





[URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]New York made a recent offer of Evan Fournier, Obi Toppin, additional salary and two unprotected first-round draft picks (five total),[/URL] league sources tell me and The Athletic’s Tony Jones. The Jazz’s asking price has been more significant than that.

– via [URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]Shams Charania @ The Athletic[/URL]







[URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]The Charlotte Hornets and Washington Wizards have been among the teams interested in Mitchell as well,[/URL] sources said.

– via [URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]Shams Charania @ The Athletic[/URL]






[URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]The Celtics and free agent guard/forward Denzel Valentine have agreed to an Exhibit 10 training camp deal,[/URL] sources said. Valentine will compete for one of the Celtics’ open roster spots in training camp.
– via [URL="https://theathletic.com/3526628/2022/08/22/kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-trade-talk-shams/?source=nbatw"]Shams Charania @ The Athletic[/URL]

[/QUOTE]

Toppin now on the table but Danny can't like only two unprotected

[url]https://sports.yahoo.com/knicks-reportedly-offer-five-first-181815271.html[/url]

[QUOTE]The Jazz are not going to get “significantly” more than that. The [URL="https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/08/21/knicks-jazz-reportedly-still-talking-mitchell-trade-despite-utahs-sky-high-ask/"]Jazz reportedly initially asked for seven first-round picks[/URL], and the Knicks recoiled.

[/QUOTE]

we'll see. It's not necessarily how many picks but whose picks and the protections on them. 4 unprotected Knicks 1sts might get it done?

[QUOTE]One sticking point has been [URL="https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/basketball/nba/player/51469/quentin-grimes"]Quentin Grimes[/URL] — the Jazz want the young shooting guard, [URL="https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/08/21/knicks-jazz-reportedly-still-talking-mitchell-trade-despite-utahs-sky-high-ask/"]the Knicks and coach Tom Thibodeau want to keep him[/URL]. Maybe that is significant enough to get the deal done.

[/QUOTE]

I doubt Danny cares that much about Grimes. All about the picks

[QUOTE]However, [URL="https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/basketball/nba/player/58189/leon-rose"]Leon Rose[/URL] and the Knicks will not start bidding against themselves. Rose has been patient and smarter than that as an executive. The Knicks are not going to make a move like the Timberwolves that surprised front offices around the league because they surrendered so much (Minnesota may be locked into the key parts of this roster, but the All-Star leap [URL="https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/basketball/nba/player/58299/anthony-edwards"]Anthony Edwards[/URL] seems poised to make gives them room to improve). Miami can offer three first-round picks and [URL="https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/basketball/nba/player/51044/tyler-herro"]Tyler Herro[/URL] — that is not better than the Knicks package now on the table. So why should Rose and the Knicks up that offer?

[/QUOTE]

James ****in' Dolan!

[QUOTE]The Knicks can let the Jazz come to them, and if Ainge wants to bring Mitchell to training camp — and into the season, where he would win games for a Utah team looking to be near the top of the lottery — then go ahead. [URL="https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/07/23/jalen-brunson-not-letting-stress-of-big-contract-new-york-get-to-him/"]The Knicks have[/URL] [URL="https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/basketball/nba/player/30604/jalen-brunson"]Jalen Brunson[/URL] and can wait.

[/QUOTE]

big assumption that they are winning with Mitchell

[QUOTE] Former Timberwolves player [URL="https://*********.com/lists/international-transactions-log-where-are-former-nba-players-going/"]Chris Johnson signed with Taiwanese team Taipei Fubon Braves for the 2022-23 season[/URL].

– via [URL="https://*********.com/lists/international-transactions-log-where-are-former-nba-players-going/"]Alberto De Roa @ *********[/URL]


[/QUOTE]

he could defend

[URL="http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2mrvqscs"]http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2mrvqscs
[/URL]
all expiring. Not sure their pick situation? I like the Hornets and New York picks best

[QUOTE] Shams Charania: The [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Jazz are trading Patrick Beverley to the Lakers for Talen Horton-Tucker,[/URL] sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.

– via [URL="https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania"]Twitter ShamsCharania[/URL]





Adrian Wojnarowski: The [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Los Angeles Lakers are in advanced talks on a trade to acquire Utah Jazz guard Patrick Beverley for Talen Horton-Tucker and Stanley Johnson,[/URL] sources tell ESPN. Deal could be finalized as soon as Thursday.

– via [URL="https://twitter.com/wojespn"]Twitter wojespn[/URL]


[/QUOTE]

I'd expect Conley gone too at minimum

Like 8 deep at guard now. Expecting more to be moved, won't expect Conley or Beasley to be on the team to start the year. Sounds like Butler is on shaky ground too.

[QUOTE=El Kabong;14654246]Like 8 deep at guard now. Expecting more to be moved, won't expect Conley or Beasley to be on the team to start the year. Sounds like Butler is on shaky ground too.[/QUOTE]

Beasley wouldn't be the 1st one I'd look to move at his age unless they think he's a bad influence on the young guys. At least get rid of Clarkson please!

[url]https://kslsports.com/491534/are-jazz-asking-too-much-for-donovan-mitchell/[/url]

[QUOTE]Very rarely do 25-year-old three-time All-Stars hit the trade market, especially when they haven’t publically demanded to be moved. Even more rarely do star players hit the market with three years left on their current contract and no off the court issues to speak of.

[/QUOTE]

forced his way onto the court against doctors wishes and him not being 100% probably cost them at least one series maybe more. Got that doctor fired from the team. Have fun New York!

[QUOTE]But, with training camp rapidly approaching, and pathways to make a second blockbuster trade narrowing, the Jazz are running out of Mitchell trade options. With teams already pulling their offers, will the Jazz regret setting such a high asking price for Mitchell?

[/QUOTE]

Ainge knows what he's doing. He got 3 unprotected for Gobert from a team where they likely won't be high picks. I'd say 3 unprotected might get it done with enough other assets to let Danny finally start having some fun again. The Knicks unprotected are the ones to get. I don't see the Knicks being anything special with this trade!

[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/qa-jazz-weigh-alternate-futures-as-offseason-enters-crunch-time/[/url]

[QUOTE]Once Gobert was traded, they’ve similarly looked for deals that bring in a player to play at Mitchell’s side, all while keeping an eye on the rebuilding route. The Jazz weren’t going to land Kevin Durant or Kyrie Irving, and whatever attempts they did make didn’t bear fruit, so they’re left with a choice: trade Mitchell now or carry him into the season as the team’s only star.

[/QUOTE]

the problem I see is he won't be a star when they suck

[QUOTE]We know that Ainge, as CEO of Basketball Operations and Alternate Governor, wanted to be more removed from the day-to-day operations, and I think that applies to trade negotiations until they reach a very serious level. I’m sure any deal involving Mitchell – and honestly probably any deal – starts with Ainge’s and Ryan Smith’s parameters and ends with their stamp of approval, but Zanik is the one in the trenches.

[/QUOTE]

Ainge doesn't want to have to talk to the media. That's why he has the job title he has. He's running this show obviously!

[QUOTE]As for players, I think the club would like two young players, and my assumption is that Quentin Grimes and Obi Toppin are the top two priorities because of their development trajectory and multiple years of contract control. While those two players might be part of Utah’s minimum trade package, I do think they’d consider only one of the players, at least as long as there was sufficient draft compensation.

[/QUOTE]

don't think he cares that much. Wants picks especially unprotected. Doesn't sound like the Knicks have wanted to give up much and Danny wants as much as he can get

[QUOTE]Options included Johnson, Wenyen Gabriel (if the Lakers guaranteed at least $60,000 of salary prior to the trade), Austin Reaves (ditto), or rookie Max Christie. That doesn’t mean the Jazz didn’t want Johnson – he does help fill a need, after all – but a small amount of additional salary was required for the deal to go through.

[/QUOTE]

young vet when they dump all the old guys. Might have some value at the trade deadline

[QUOTE]To acquire Mitchell, the Cavaliers would need to send out $24.2 million in salary, plus enough draft picks to make the Jazz happy. Some early speculation assumed a package would revolve around Collin Sexton (via sign-and-trade) and Isaac Okoro, but on Thursday one source claimed the Jazz lacked interest in those players. If that’s the case, the Cavs have several other options that could work, possibly including forward Cedi Osman, in whom the Jazz supposedly have interest.

[/QUOTE]

Osman over the young guys?

[QUOTE]If the mystery team isn’t Cleveland, I’d lean toward New Orleans, Orlando or Toronto, with Phoenix as a dark horse.

[/QUOTE]

give me Orlando. Been bad for a long time. Most likely to get raped by Ainge

[QUOTE]The lack of reported interest in Clarkson surprises me. I’m well aware of the 2021 Sixth Man of the Year’s warts, but they come with a boatload of bench scoring. Clarkson looked like the team’s best player for much of the playoffs, yet no significant market has developed.

[/QUOTE]

I can't imagine anyone wanting him but I seem to be alone in that assessment?

[QUOTE]These questions are similar and fairly simple to answer. If Mitchell stays, the Jazz will likely add a veteran free agent center, and personally I’d look to add one even if Mitchell is traded.

[/QUOTE]

agree

[QUOTE]When [URL="https://twitter.com/k_clayt/status/1563231834615320578"]results for the final round[/URL] were tallied, Whiteside narrowly edged out Harrell in the unofficial fans’ choice poll. That’s funny, because I don’t think he’s the right kind of presence around a young, rebuilding team, and he didn’t seem eager to return when the season ended in April.

[/QUOTE]

he's a bum

[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/as-with-jazz-lakers-trade-vet-deals-may-precede-the-big-domino/[/url]

[QUOTE]THT and Johnson haven’t been great. But they’re 21 and 26 years old, respectively, and both have wingspans of seven feet or more. Both have problematic shooting numbers and compound the Jazz’s excess of guards. There’s a chance neither guy plays a big role for the Jazz, but the idea here is that they’re trying the type of thing rebuilding teams should try.

[/QUOTE]

Speaking of wingspans what is advior Lindsey up to these days? Johnson isn't a guard

[QUOTE]Sometimes the big dominos fall first. But that doesn’t have to be the case.

[/QUOTE]

If Mitchell is on the team you want to give him a chance to compete until the trade deadline anyway

[QUOTE]No, I don’t know who the [URL="https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1561873652357939202?s=20&t=gakJpibk8we7ejyCI0zGTQ"]mystery team[/URL] is, but I am not at all shocked that other teams are poking around — especially with KD off the market. Mitchell is a top-20 player, the market for such a dude is definitely not going to be limited to any one team.

[/QUOTE]

if he's really top 20 he'll carry the Jazz or Knicks. Hard for me to see though

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/08/28/jazz-add-sexton-without-losing-donovan-mitchell/[/url]

Sexton makes perfect sense to me if Mitchell is gone but no sense if he's still here

[URL]https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/01/utah-jazz-finally-trade-donovan-mitchell/[/URL]

[QUOTE]According to Adrian Wojnarowski, the full deal is for 3 unprotected first round picks, two first round pick swaps, along with Collin Sexton (sign and trade), Ochai Agbaji and Lauri Markannen, giving the Jazz an incredible haul of picks in just one off-season. All 3 of these players in return will likely feature in the starting lineup in 2022, and if Danny Ainge is looking to rebuild the long way, a few of them could even be moved out for more picks at the deadline, but either way, this is a solid return for Mitchell.

[/QUOTE]

a bit early to say. See what other moves they make but I'd put Agbaji on the Stars until he proves he's better than Beasley, Alexander-Walker and Bolmaro

[QUOTE]It’s tough to say whether the team will now look to move their veterans like Mike Conley, Bojan Bogdanovic and Jordan Clarkson, but at this point, Utah and their fans finally have some confirmation on what the lineup could potentially look like in 2022. It’s not quite the 7 first-round pick haul that Danny Ainge was originally waiting for, and some may see it as a win for the Cavs, but ultimately, both teams got what they wanted.

[/QUOTE]

obviously they will look to move them. Hopefully they can. The young guys need to play and lose a lot!

[QUOTE]The Jazz now turn their attention to the 2023 draft and beyond, as Danny Ainge looks to rebuild this team around Sexton, Agbaji, Markannen and Talen Horton-Tucker, but with possession of so many future first-round picks, the team has plenty of flexibility going forward.

[/QUOTE]

You forgot some guys that have actually done something in the league unlike a couple of those guys

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/1/23212944/brian-windhorst-meme-jazz-trade-donovan-mitchell[/url]

[QUOTE]Windhorst argued that, this summer, Jazz CEO Danny Ainge essentially had the chance to recreate the past. He could trade away the team’s two biggest stars and enter full [URL="https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/13/23211145/utah-jazz-rebuild-mode-donovan-mitchell-trade-report-knicks-heat-nets-ryan-smith-danny-ainge"]rebuild mode[/URL], just as he had with the Boston Celtics after he hired Brad Stevens to coach.

[/QUOTE]

those guys were old. Much different

Udoka/Kessler
Markkanen/Vanderbilt/Johnson
Fontecchio/Alexander-Walker/Bolmaro/Juzang/
Beasley/Horton-Tucker/Agbaji/Sneed
Sexton/Butler

A veteran center would be nice. I guess Markkanen could end up there?

[QUOTE] StatMuse: Collin Sexton in his last healthy season: — 24.3 PPG — 4.4 APG — 48/37/82% [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]New first option in Utah.[/URL] pic.twitter.com/Lz3Rusn8DP

– via [URL="https://twitter.com/statmuse"]Twitter statmuse[/URL]


[/QUOTE]
2 years younger and only making 18 million not max!!!
[QUOTE]


Ben Anderson: The [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]@Utah Jazz now have each of the last two NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Players in Ochai Ogbaji and Jared Butler who won titles at Kansas and Butler[/URL]. Going to be some BIG-12 trash talk in the Jazz locker room I’d imagine.

– via [URL="https://twitter.com/BensHoops"]Twitter BensHoops[/URL]


[/QUOTE]

Adrian Wojnarowski: At the start of trade talks in July, [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]New York offered Utah a Donovan Mitchell package including RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Mitchell Robinson and three unprotected first-round picks,[/URL] sources tell ESPN. Jazz turned down that offer and Robinson signed a $60M extension to stay w/ NY.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/wojespn"]Twitter wojespn[/URL]

[url]https://www.ksl.com/article/50468370/a-look-at-whats-next-for-the-jazz-after-trading-donovan-mitchell-rudy-gobert[/url]
[QUOTE]
So Ainge had a few options.

Choose one of Gobert or Mitchell and retool the roster around them.
Trade both and play the lottery odds.

He chose Door No. 2.

[/QUOTE]

new coach. bigger backcourt, a modern starting 4. Had many options

[QUOTE]2023: Jazz, Timberwolves, worst pick of Rockets/Nets/Sixers

2024: None*

2025: Jazz, Wolves, Cavs
2026: Pick swap with Cavs and Wolves (essentially Utah will get the best pick of the three teams)
2027: Jazz, Wolves, Cavs
2028: Pick swap with Cavs

2029: Jazz, Cavs, Wolves (top 5 protected)

[/QUOTE]

at least 3 in next year's deep draft! The Favors pick turn into 2 2nds after 2024?

[QUOTE]The Jazz probably aren't done collecting, either. Bojan Bogdanovic, Jordan Clarkson and Mike Conley will also likely be moved to further usher in the rebuild.

[/QUOTE]

Gay!

[QUOTE]Betting that Minnesota and Cleveland will be bad isn't the worst idea, considering both have historically struggled to field a consistent winner. Yet, it's not a sure thing any of those picks will even end up being lottery selections.

[/QUOTE]

doesn't look likely that either will be bad in the near future each with one of the best young players in the league but you never know with unprotected picks. Knicks would have been better

[QUOTE]The Wolves and Cavs have young exciting cores that may keep them in contention all the way through 2029. Cleveland is stacked with three All-Stars (Darius Garland, Jarrett Allen and now Mitchell) and a potential All-NBA center in Evan Mobley. Minnesota, meanwhile, added Rudy Gobert to a team that already had Karl-Anthony Towns and emerging star Anthony Edwards.

[/QUOTE]

and Russell. The only two big 4's in the league

[QUOTE]Still, it's the NBA and things can change quickly. Who would have thought the Jazz would be blowing their team up with a soon-to-be 26-year-old Mitchell locked up for three more years? Maybe things don't work out as planned in Minnesota with the front-court duo of Towns, and Mitchell might leave Cleveland after his contract expires.

[/QUOTE]

Garland or Mitchell will have to go eventually. Maybe it can work because of their two bigs. Gobert never had that

[QUOTE]Kessler was one of the best rim protectors the college game has ever seen. He's also got a goofy personality (by his own admission) that should help endear him to Jazz fans.

[/QUOTE]

or Stars fans anyway

[QUOTE]If the Jazz can land Victor Wembanyama or Scoot Hendersen (the top two prospects for the 2023 draft) and they are as good as billed, then there's a light at the end of the tunnel — almost immediately. Regardless, though, fans are likely looking at multiple seasons of watching a lottery-bound team.

[/QUOTE]

no one as big as him has stayed healthy and been great. I'd prefer Scoot for that reason

[url]https://kslsports.com/491724/phoenix-suns-reached-out-utah-jazz-bojan-bogdanovic/[/url]

[URL]http://www.espn.ph/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2gz5o7lj[/URL]

[url]https://kslsports.com/491709/pk-jazz-achieve-off-season-trade-goals-success-is-tbd/[/url]

[QUOTE]For a team that lacked size on the perimeter, the Jazz needed the 6-5 Agabji, who was the 14[SUP]th[/SUP] pick last draft out of Kansas. The rare four-year college player joins Talen Horton-Tucker and Malik Sealy, two 6-8 wing players whom the Jazz acquired during the offseason.[/QUOTE]

Sealy? :lol

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/1/23333579/knicks-fan-stephen-a-smith-is-not-happy-about-the-donovan-mitchell-trade[/url]

The Knicks dodged a bullet if you ask me.

[QUOTE][INDENT]The full haul the Jazz got for Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert:

Malik Beasley
Leandro Bolmaro
Walker Kessler (No.22 pick)
Jarred Vanderbilt
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji (No.14 pick)
Talen Horton-Tucker
Stanley Johnson
7 1st round picks
3 1st round picks swaps [URL="https://t.co/PVFkvzqYeP"]pic.twitter.com/PVFkvzqYeP[/URL]

— SB Nation (@SBNation) [URL="https://twitter.com/SBNation/status/1565432257560854528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]September 1, 2022[/URL]
[/INDENT][/QUOTE]

plus a first for O'Neale, a 21 year old and a young vet for Beverley

[QUOTE] NBA guru Adrian Wojnarowski dropped a truth bomb on a recent episode of his podcast. According to Woj, the Knicks were left hanging as the Jazz accepted Cleveland’s offer for Mitchell (h/t Doric Sam of Bleacher Report): “I do think New York expected they would circle back, and they never got another chance with Utah,” Woj said. “Utah did not go back to them on Thursday and say, ‘Hey, we’ve got this offer from Cleveland. Do you want to top it?’ In their mind, when New York walked on Monday, that was it. They had a deal with Cleveland that they just did, agreed to it. [URL="https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-woj-drops-truth-bomb-on-new-yorks-botched-donovan-mitchell-trade-pursuit/"]And New York found out after that Mitchell deal was already agreed to, that he was on his way to Cleveland, and Utah was not circling back with New York to give them a chance to top the deal.”[/URL]

– via [URL="https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-woj-drops-truth-bomb-on-new-yorks-botched-donovan-mitchell-trade-pursuit/"]Paolo Songco @ Clutch Points[/URL]


[/QUOTE]

good thing for the Knicks. Dolan might have just ****ed them again. They dodged a bullet. Makes a lot more sense for Cavs. They will be good. NY wouldn't have been good

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/02/three-reasons-utah-jazz-won-donovan-mitchell-trade/[/url]

[QUOTE]Suffice it to say, Utah are the clear winner of this trade. The Cavs get their third All-Star, which makes them a major force, but the Jazz are set for the future. With more draft capital than they know what to do with and steps in place to acquire even more young talent, it’s safe to say that the Utah Jazz have won the trade and will be a fun team to watch with a clear path moving forward.

[/QUOTE]

hard to imagine the Jazz not winning big on this one. Sexton alone has a chance to be at least close to the player Mitchell is at 18 million a year instead of the max Mitchell has. 3 former lottery picks. 3 unprotected picks

[QUOTE]Most rebuilding teams are without any semblance of identity and don’t play fun basketball. The Jazz will manage to have both. For starters, Sexton, Markkanen, Vanderbilt, THT, and Walker Kessler can all be electrifying talents on the court. On top of that, with a loaded draft on the way, Utah could easily find a star to build their roster around. The Jazz wanted six picks for Mitchell and fell short of that, but they still run away with this trade.

[/QUOTE]

THT and Kessler have done nothing!

[QUOTE][URL="https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/markkla01.html"]Lauri Markkanen[/URL] had a red-hot first two seasons in Chicago and was one of the league’s brightest stars, being named to the [URL="https://fansided.com/nba/25-under-25/?tab=2021"]top 25 players under 25 in 2018 and ‘19[/URL]. As an oversized wing, he can knock down shots from deep and bang around in the paint on defense, making him a lethal weapon alongside Bojan Bogdanocivh as a catch-and-shoot threat.

[/QUOTE]

Bojan won't be here! I doubt he plays any wing. Might have to play the 5 more than the 4 with Udoka's ankle and Kessler's youth

[QUOTE]Like any rookie, he will have a bit of a learning curve as he transitions to the NBA, but his Summer League performance suggests he is as ready as a player can be to make the leap.

[/QUOTE]

we'll see what the roster looks like in a few weeks but right now he's behind a few guys with experience

[QUOTE]Will he be in front of Clarkson or Sexton on the depth chart? Nope. In fact, he may even be behind Malik Beasley and Jared Butler, but by 2024, he will be a solid starting guard on an absolutely loaded team. The Jazz stole Walker Kessler from the Wolves, and they did it again with Agbaji.

[/QUOTE]

Clarkson! :roll:

yeah they stole Kessler. Only took the 3rd best player in Jazz history at his peak :facepalm

[QUOTE]The Jazz have a solid young core in Sexton, Markkanen, Agbaji, Butler, and the recent acquisitions from the Timberwolves. They are missing a superstar, although reasons stand that [URL="https://thejnotes.com/2022/08/23/what-2023-draft-prospects-should-the-utah-jazz-tank-for/"]they’ll find one very, very soon[/URL] and first-year head coach Will Hardy can develop the franchise savior as he sees fit.

[/QUOTE]

superstars are hard to come by. Ainge has a great track record. Better than anyone the team has ever had but it's still not a perfect science

[QUOTE]The Thunder, Wizards, Pistons, Spurs, and Rockets have all gone through or are going through similar rebuilds, but they went from top-tier teams to middling teams, to cellar dwellers over the span of years. The Jazz were bonafide contenders up until last season, and by 2023 they could have a solid cast and a rookie like Victor Wembanyama or Scoot Henderson to put them over the top.

[/QUOTE]

careful what you wish for. No one Victor's size had ever stayed healthy and dominated

[QUOTE]Basically, they could start and finish a rebuild before teams with a head start even make the playoffs again.

[/QUOTE]

they could but probably won't. The last tank didn't last long only because Gobert unexpectedly emerged

[url]https://fansided.com/betsided/posts/donovan-mitchell-trade-makes-cleveland-cavaliers-nba-finals-contenders[/url]

[QUOTE]Donovan Mitchell is an offensive superstar, ranking among the NBA's best since he entered the league. He excelled with Rudy Gobert as a lob partner and defensive anchor, and Mitchell now gets two versions of Gobert to work with in Mobley and Allen.

[/QUOTE]

That was the biggest problem with the Jazz. They needed their offense to revolve around a 2 man game with Gobert and Mitchell and Mitchell wasn't up to the task. Conley and Gobert had to replace that

[QUOTE]Garland also gives Mitchell something he rarely had in Utah (aside from the stints with the oft-injured Mike Conley): a running-mate capable of shouldering the load on occasion. Cleveland still has promising wing Isaac Okoro and key rotation pieces like Caris LaVert, Kevin Love, and Cedi Osman, so the versatile roster is plenty deep for a playoff run.

[/QUOTE]

Conley was their 2nd best player two seasons ago

[QUOTE]I'd argue this roster is a better one than Mitchell ever worked with in Utah, and the Jazz were always among NBA Finals favorites in his time with the franchise.

[/QUOTE]

we'll see. No one on Cleveland is as good as Gobert. Mobley should be in time

[url]https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268512/Jazz-Engaged-In-Trade-Talks-For-Veterans-Still-On-Roster[/url]

[QUOTE]Utah has been engaged in trade conversations for the remaining veterans on their roster. The Jazz are talking trades for Bojan Bogdanovic, Mike Conley and Jordan Clarkson. It's also expected that Danny Ainge will gauge the market for Rudy Gay and Malik Beasley as well.

[/QUOTE]

Beasley can stay for a while assuming they don't see him as a bad influence on their young roster/ Gay needs to go even if it means a buyout stretch provision or whatever. Might have to give up some of your picks. I can't see him playing for the Jazz currently

[url]https://kslsports.com/491772/which-teams-could-trade-for-conley-clarkson-bogdanovic/[/url]

[QUOTE]The Jazz have 17 players on guaranteed contracts, two over the NBA’s maximum for opening night, and must shave at least two more players off their roster before they face the Denver Nuggets to begin the season on October 19.

[/QUOTE]might end up with more than that depending on how many picks and how many young guys they get

[QUOTE]Just as the Suns would look to add Bogdanovic in hopes of pushing them over the top as contenders, the Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, Milwaukee Bucks, and Toronto Raptors could all use a player of his standing.

[/QUOTE]

Toronto was supposedly after him earlier in the summer

[QUOTE]Like Bogdanovic, Jordan Clarkson has universal trade value as one of the NBA’s leading sixth men and an instant scoring option off the bench.

[/QUOTE]

doubt it is universal

[QUOTE]Like Bogdanovic, Jordan Clarkson has universal trade value as one of the NBA’s leading sixth men and an instant scoring option off the bench.

[/QUOTE]

every team needs a gunner for their culture!

[QUOTE]After an underwhelming summer, the Miami Heat could also use a player like Clarkson to lift their offense which was middle-of-the-pack last season.

[/QUOTE]

an inefficient gunner doesn't make your offense better

[QUOTE]Miami’s best pathway to acquire Clarkson would likely revolve around a Duncan Robinson trade, though the Jazz would need significant draft compensation to take on the remaining four years and $70 million left on his deal.

[/QUOTE]

only if there is no other deal

[QUOTE]The Dallas Mavericks lost Jalen Brunson in the offseason and could use another go-to scorer off the bench. After adding center JaVale McGee, Dallas could build a package around Dwight Powell and third-year guard Josh Green, though they might be unwilling to part with their 2025 first-round pick.

[/QUOTE]

don't want Powell

[QUOTE]The Mavericks could also look for another backcourt veteran to play alongside Luka Doncic, and could build a package around Davis Bertans, Josh Green, and a future first-round pick.

[/QUOTE]

don't want Bertans

you forgot Gay

[URL]https://kslsports.com/491763/utah-jazz-draft-pick-asset-tracker/[/URL]

[QUOTE][I]Jazz owe CHA second-round pick (Elijah Hughes)[/I]

[/QUOTE]

that could be a high 2nd rounder in a deep draft. Danny might finally start having some fun

[QUOTE]
[I]Jazz owe OKC first-round pick, protected 1-10 (Derrick Favors)[/I]
[I]Pick is protected 1-10 in 2025, 1-8 in 2026 before dissolving [/I]

[/QUOTE]

that's one to keep an eye on

[QUOTE]Own 2025 second-round pick[/QUOTE]

probably another high 2nd rounder

[QUOTE]Mem 2026 second-round pick, protected 31-42 (Jared Butler)

[/QUOTE]

probably get that one

[QUOTE][I]Jazz owe IND second-round pick (Rayjon Tucker)[/I]

[/QUOTE]

ouch!

[QUOTE][I]Jazz owe OKC second-round pick (Miye Oni)[/I]

[/QUOTE]

ouch!

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/2/23333648/grading-the-donovan-mitchell-trade-from-every-angle[/url]

[QUOTE]The Knicks haven’t had a player of Mitchell’s caliber since Carmelo Anthony. I think it’s important to remember what Anthony’s time with the Knicks was like though. They had multiple players who were past their prime, more people probably remember Anthony’s first season more because of Linsanity than they do Anthony, and the Knicks only made the playoffs three times during Anthony’s tenure. They lost twice in the first round and once in the second. That’s the legacy.

[/QUOTE]

that tells you all you need to know about the Knicks! :roll::roll:

[QUOTE]If the Knicks weren’t really invested in getting Mitchell, I might be willing to give them an OK grade here. But they wanted him and felt like they needed him and then they lost out on him. So the Knicks are getting a D-.

[/QUOTE]

Knicks dodged a bullet

[QUOTE]Draft assets are not all created equal, and any team that Mitchell was going to be traded to would have a chance of being a very good team for as long as Mitchell was there. So when the Jazz were negotiating with New York, they knew that any picks included in a package would probably not have a chance of being high picks because Mitchell would probably stay with the Knicks for the rest of his career and keep the Knicks just good enough to not be eligible for the lottery.

[/QUOTE]

still a lottery team to me even with Mitchell

[QUOTE]It can be argued that the players that were available in New York were better than the players that were available from the Cavaliers, but since the Jazz’s main priority was garnering the best asset package, they got exactly what they wanted.

[/QUOTE]

3 former lottery picks and one of them is basically Mitchell at 60 million less and 2 years younger

[QUOTE]It’s never going to feel like a perfect deal when you trade away a star player, but this feels like it’s about as close as the Jazz were going to get to feeling like they got an ideal return. That’s good enough for a B+.

[/QUOTE]

it will go down as a heist in time

[QUOTE]When it comes to more specific on-court production, Mitchell adds shot creation along with pick-and-roll acumen that the Cavs were missing. When Garland wasn’t on the court last season, there wasn’t much creation and movement. Now, with Mitchell, the Cavs can almost constantly have an All-Star creator who can knock down a pull-up shot and run a smooth offense.

[/QUOTE]

pick and roll isn't his thing iso is

[url]https://sports.yahoo.com/3-trades-sixers-offer-jazz-204827601.html[/url]

[QUOTE]Considering the lack of offensive development from Thybulle and the downward turn Korkmaz has taken recently, the Sixers could inquire about Beasley. The 6-year veteran out of Florida State averaged 15.1 points and shot 38.9% from deep for the Minnesota Timberwolves and he would be a big help to the team’s bench unit. Losing Niang would hurt, but it would show faith in Paul Reed to give him a shot as the primary backup big man.

[/QUOTE]

don't want Niang. Prefer Beasley unless there are picks coming too

[QUOTE]Gay is toward the end of his career 16 seasons in, but he can still be an asset to the bench unit. Korkmaz’s lack of production in the 2021-22 season is something to really examine and even with Gay’s declining production, he at least can get to the basket and make plays for himself and others.

[/QUOTE]

that one I'd do

[QUOTE]Clarkson, the 2021 6th Man of the Year, would be a big addition to the Sixers if they could make the move for him. He’s averaged 16.8 points in 189 games for the Jazz with only four starts so he understands what it takes to get into a groove quickly off the bench. The only real holdup here would be if the Jazz demand a first-round pick, which is a high possibility. Philadelphia cannot trade a first-round pick until 2029 and Utah won’t settle for that in this rebuild.

[/QUOTE]

Springer not yet 20. Do that one all day long! Just please get rid of the bum!

Chris Fedor: The Cavs believed that their offer was going to be tough. That the best offer that they were willing to give to the Utah Jazz could have been beaten and maybe even should have been beaten by the Knicks or another team. The Knicks were always the most likely landing spot for Donovan Mitchell because they have a horde of draft picks. [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]So when the Cavaliers and Jazz had conversations around summer league about two months ago, that’s when they first had the conversations. The cows left those conversations saying, yeah, probably not happening. Those weren’t very productive. They want way too much for somebody like Donovan Mitchell, and we just can’t do it[/URL].

– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]





Chris Fedor: Okay, that was about two months ago. But as you know, things change in the NBA. And behind all of this, I think it needs to be pointed out that president of basketball operations Koby Altman, and Utah Jazz General Manager Justin Zanick are close. [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]They have a personal relationship, and they have a working relationship. And both of them are good. In fact, I would say, of all the executives around the NBA, the guy that Koby may be closest to on a personal level is Justin Zanick[/URL].

– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]







Chris Fedor: And on top of that, you know, both teams have completed multiple trades since Koby came in charge and since Justin Zanuck was making decisions for the Jazz, so I think that helped with negotiations and keeping everybody in the loop and trying to keep these conversations as private as possible, and not throwing lottery marketing’s name out in the media and Collin Sexton’s name and all that kind of stuff. [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]So, you know, as the offseason progress, about two weeks ago, the Cavs finally had a feeling of, hey, we might be in this thing. We might have the pieces that Utah actually wants[/URL].
– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]







Chris Fedor: And New York may not be real about what they’re going to give to the debt. They might not give the Jazz everything that they could and everything that the Jazz want. So that was about like two weeks ago or so the Cavs thought, hey, there is a path to this thing. And then talks broke down again. So, or at least real talks about something actually transpiring broke down again. And then as you got into late last week, an early this week, and the Knicks continued to hem and haw, the next being the team that everybody thought was going to make the best offer to the Jazz. They wanted to keep certain pieces out of the deal. [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]And then they agreed to the contract extension with RJ Barrett, like that changed the landscape a little bit. And Koby Altman reached back out to Justin Zanick. I believe it was Tuesday morning, and said, ‘Hey, is there something that we can do here? Like what is it that you would need from us in order for this to get done? ‘[/URL]

– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]







Chris Fedor: And obviously the Cavaliers said, if you want Jarrett Allen, if you want to Darius Garland, if you want Evan Mobley, that is a nonstarter. That is not happening. But we will give you future draft capital. And we know that you want future draft capital. So then, you know, about 48 hours later, the Jazz said, ‘Hey, we like the package that you are offering us of all of the things that have been offered to [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]us. We like what you have to offer us the best a combination of young talented pieces, with Ambaji, with Sexton, and the draft capital that you’re willing to give up with unprotected pits.’ So in part, because the Knicks took the approach that they took the Cavs were able to swoop in there, and they were able to give the Jazz ultimately what they thought was the best offer out there[/URL].

– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/how-donovan-mitchell-landed-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/id1339173433?i=1000578191457"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]







Jake Fischer: [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-the-cavaliers-shocking-donovan-mitchell-trade/id1618992995?i=1000578194689"]But when he talked to Cavs personnel, and when you have talked to them over the last 12 months or so, especially as they’ve kind of taken this next step towards contention and a post-LeBron era. For a team like Cleveland to build a contender with star power and multiple All-Stars — it’s hard to do that in free agency, right?[/URL]
– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-the-cavaliers-shocking-donovan-mitchell-trade/id1618992995?i=1000578194689"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]






Jake Fischer: [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-the-cavaliers-shocking-donovan-mitchell-trade/id1618992995?i=1000578194689"]So Collin Sexton clearly wanted to get paid, there was a big gap. We talked about this with Chris Fedor here a couple of weeks back that, ironically, being that he ends up going to the Jazz that Jordan Clarkson’s contract that takes up the $13 mil dollar number that Cleveland was comfortable with. Sexton wanted $20 million. We talked about the Jazz’s interest in Collin Sexton most recently t when we had Michael Scotto on a few weeks ago.[/URL] But I mean, Kobe Altman’s front office did the damn thing.

– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-the-cavaliers-shocking-donovan-mitchell-trade/id1618992995?i=1000578194689"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]

Sounds to me like the best offer was early on before they signed Mitchell Robinson to his extension. Robinson, Barrett and at least 3 unprotected. The Knicks picks will likely be better even if it was just two unprotected. Than The Knicks didn't seem to want to give up anything. They played it right. Mitchell doesn't do that much for them especially after signing Brunson. For the Cavs it makes more sense. The GM's being buds probably made it easy to get Sexton's deal done. The Jazz knew exactly what he wanted already.

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/3/23334071/nba-2023-prospects-utah-jazz-tanking[/url]

[QUOTE]Though just 6 feet, 2 inches, the guard has an incredible frame to develop into and seems everything that he does seems to be right on the edge of becoming better and greater every time he takes the floor. He still needs to work on his shooting, but as a creator he is ready for the NBA now.

[/QUOTE]

he's the guy I guess. The French kid is just too damn big!

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/03/ochai-agbaji-best-part-mitchell-trade/[/url]

[QUOTE]He is projected to be a [URL="https://www.nbadraft.net/players/ochai-agbaji/"]Desmond Bane clone[/URL], using his strength and size to guard a variety of positions while raining down threes. He could transition to be a guard and wing, like Kaly Thompson or Danny Green. If he starts playing elite defense, he could become a Kawhi Leonard type of player, who [URL="https://www.nba.com/jazz/news/five-things-to-know-about-utah-jazz-head-coach-will-hardy"]new coach Will Hardy[/URL] helped develop.

[/QUOTE]

Klay and Kawai. Already got the guy in the HOF and he hasn't even stepped on the floor!

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/03/utah-jazz-take-best-offer-donovan-mitchell/[/url]

[QUOTE][INDENT]At the start of trade talks in July, New York offered Utah a Donovan Mitchell package including RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, Mitchell Robinson and three unprotected first-round picks, sources tell ESPN. Jazz turned down that offer and Robinson signed a $60M extension to stay w/ NY. [URL]https://t.co/3eDg2Mf7f1[/URL]

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) [URL="https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1565505224986566657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]September 2, 2022[/URL]
[/INDENT][/QUOTE]

that was the one to take. Got greedy

[QUOTE]The Jazz got two decent players and a promising rookie, although RJ Barrett is clearly the best player offered. Obi Toppin has been fairly disappointing, although Mitchell Robinson has been a solid backup center. Plus, three picks is exactly what the Jazz got in the real deal.

[/QUOTE]

3 unprotected from a team that probably won't be good was the best players

[URL]http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=257bulqq[/URL]

Westbrook for Conley/Bojan and Mr. Brick. Is the two unprotected enough? Need some 2nds? Pick Swaps? Cash?

[URL]http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2m2rnudp[/URL]

Include Gay and receive 3 younger guys and get a 10 million dollar trade exception and increase the Lakers luxury tax by a ton!

[INDENT]Bojan for Trent or OG would be cool too[/INDENT]

Bobby Marks: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]The Collin Sexton contract in Utah starts at $16.5M and increases 5% in each season. The last year is $18.975M[/URL]. $70.95M fully guaranteed and can increase to $72.95M. Sexton has $500K in unlikely bonuses per season.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42"]Twitter BobbyMarks42[/URL]