"Pippen was the best player in the world in 93, 94, 95" - Dennis Rodman

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14335519]The Bulls barely beat the Knicks WITH Jordan. Now you're saying they shouldve beat their biggest competitors at the time without their best player? And I'm sure if I put let's say Latrell Sprewell or Hersey Hawkins on the 94 Bulls, then you'd say theh dont get any further because you want to protect Michael Jordan's legacy. The fact that they took the Knicks to 7 hard fought games, and one being lost in a controversial manner says a lot.


I watched that series. And I didn't come away thinking Penny outplayed Pip much less dominated him. And while I agree Jordan obviously checked Penny at times, Pippen was the main guy. Theres a website that was made to actually prop up MJ that even said Pippen guarded Penny most of time in 96. The website was made to squash the argument that Pippen always guarded the opposition's best scorer.



Look where they finished in MVP, All-NBA, DPOY, and All-Defense teams bro. Go back and read this thread. Roundball Rock plainly lays out why Pip was so highly regarded by his peers from 94-96. Even in the video, Max Kellerman called Pippen the 2nd best player after Olajuwan. And hes no Pippen fan.[/QUOTE]

Fellow Jordan stains, read the above from a legitimate Bulls fan.

Class is in session.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14335596]we can pullup cherry-picked quotes for most stars. thats not an argument dude. some of pippen's peers like shaq/barkley/webber don't believe he was that guy. others, like reggie for example, thought he was a great all-around player. it really depends on your source, although by most objective measures, pippen never produced like a top 5 guy. forget best in the world. again, that's with defense & postseason play accounted for. [/QUOTE]
Barkley is on video calling Scottie Pippen the best player in the world in 95.
[QUOTE]
shaq/drob/malone/barkley/jordan are all guys i'd take over pippen. and so would most gm's back then.
[/QUOTE]
Shaq was young, Jordan wasnt there, Pippen got more All NBA voted than Malone and Barkley at the time. That sounds like about 2-3 right? Definitely not 10ish

[QUOTE]That's the reality here, hoops. top 8 is really generous when you start talking impact. bigmen ruled the scene in the 90s, and the only perimeter player who had bigman-like impact was jordan.[/QUOTE]

Bro. This isnt about my opinion or your opinion. It's a matter of how Pippen was regarded at that time. And you surely cant draw conclusions based on how 2 player played in 6 or 7 games.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14335629]Barkley is on video calling Scottie Pippen the best player in the world in 95.

Bro. This isnt about my opinion or your opinion. It's a matter of how Pippen was regarded at that time. And you surely cant draw conclusions based on how 2 player played in 6 or 7 games.[/QUOTE]

barkley also thought pippen was selfish & couldn't lead a team. again, pippen was regarded different by various players. think of another argument, this one isn't working.

my opinion is also backed by facts aka production - playoffs included. yours isn't and that is the difference.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14335599]I'm not sure what Jordan not being on the team has to do with it. The two teams were evenly matched. If Pippen was indeed the better player, then the combination of him and Grant should have proven to be successful. If we go by what you're saying, Pippen+Grant are the better combo than Ewing+Starks and resulted in a win.

But that didn't happen. Chicago lost and Ewing also had a better year the following season. So if he led his team to a higher seed in both 1994 and 1995, put up better numbers or at least comparable, and beat Pippen head to head while performing better, why would we just assume that Pippen > Ewing during that stretch of time?



Okay, I agree that he didn't dominate him, but he did outplay him. Pippen did guard Penny most of the time, which is essentially my point. He didn't shut down Penny and Penny did in fact have the better series. Not to mention, did you watch Penny in the '95 finals?

Penny put up 26/5/8 on 64% TS%. Penny's performance was better than Pippen's 1996 finals and anything Pippen did between 1994-96, on the biggest stage.

That of course is lost in the conversation and completely ignored.



Kellerman is wrong. Pippen definitely doesn't rank higher than Robinson, Shaq, Malone, and MJ from 1994-96. And then there are a host of players who are better if not equal.

One thing you're forgetting is that MJ missed all of 1994 and most of 1995. Shaq missed a significant portion of 1995 and 1996. Penny was a rookie in 1994. And Barkley missed a lot of games as well between the three years (42 in total).

It makes sense that Pippen received more votes looking for various accolades as he was consistently healthy and played full seasons. You have to take that into consideration if you're going to look at voting. But that doesn't automatically mean he was the better player.[/QUOTE]

Again. This is not about your opinion bro. It's about how Pippen was regarded.

Again you want to fall back on stats. Accolades say something totally contrary to what you feel.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14335635]Again. This is not about your opinion bro. It's about how Pippen was regarded.

Again you want to fall back on stats. Accolades say something totally contrary to what you feel.[/QUOTE]

Great, so what this boils down to is cherry picking quotes to suit your argument. Never mind what the data, eye test, and analysis actually says.

You just ignored the fact that when you look at year-by-year voting for accolades, it ignores the context like injuries and players like Penny being a rookie and MJ missing a year and three quarters.

damn, 97 Bulls still spit roasting this Jordan stain per usual



HuggiesNY soiling himself attempting to defend Ordan and his competition at ever teet :oldlol:

[QUOTE=LAmbruh;14335651]damn, 97 Bulls still spit roasting this Jordan stain per usual



HuggiesNY soiling himself attempting to defend Ordan and his competition at ever teet :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

:lol:roll: @--'--,-<

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14335647]Great, so what this boils down to is cherry picking quotes to suit your argument. Never mind what the data, eye test, and analysis actually says.

You just ignored the fact that when you look at year-by-year voting for accolades, it ignores the context like injuries and players like Penny being a rookie and MJ missing a year and three quarters.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the key part. Barkley and MJ were the two best players in '93 and in the middle of their primes. MJ retires and Barkley has his injuries in the '94 & '95 Regular Seasons. Pippen was not better than Hakeem, D-Rob, Ewing, Malone & Shaq anyways, you add MJ and Barkley to that list and he's just a borderline top 10 player as a 2nd option, who could never be the #1 option on a championship team. If Barkley's healthy in '94 & '95, Pippen doesn't make 1st team All-NBA and is not top 3 in the MVP voting, the forward spot wasn't all that deep either in those years, it's Pippen, Malone & Barkley, the Center position was deep, and only one of them could make 1st team.

Funny how he brings up the Knicks series being close in '94, but ignores that Pippen was way worse against them, even averaged less points than the year before, despite not having MJ there. Grant and Armstrong carried his ass offensively and Pippen quit on his team because Phil didn't trust him to take the last shot. He had 13 points on 5/16 shooting in Game 6 and his team still pushed it to a Game 7, even with Ewing having 26/14 on 9/18 FG.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14335679]Yeah, that's the key part. Barkley and MJ were the two best players in '93 and in the middle of their primes. MJ retires and Barkley has his injuries in the '94 & '95 Regular Seasons. Pippen was not better than Hakeem, D-Rob, Ewing, Malone & Shaq anyways, you add MJ and Barkley to that list and he's just a borderline top 10 player as a 2nd option, who could never be the #1 option on a championship team. If Barkley's healthy in '94 & '95, Pippen doesn't make 1st team All-NBA and is not top 3 in the MVP voting, the forward spot wasn't all that deep either in those years, it's Pippen, Malone & Barkley, the Center position was deep, and only one of them could make 1st team.

Funny how he brings up the Knicks series being close in '94, but ignores that Pippen was way worse against them, even averaged less points than the year before, despite not having MJ there. Grant and Armstrong carried his ass offensively and Pippen quit on his team because Phil didn't trust him to take the last shot. He had 13 points on 5/16 shooting in Game 6 and his team still pushed it to a Game 7, even with Ewing having 26/14 on 9/18 FG.[/QUOTE]

Yea. I'm a big Pippen fan. But singling out total votes for accolades doesn't tell me much because guys like MJ were out, Barkley injured, Penny was a rookie in 1994, Shaq was injured, etc.

Not to mention, there is no mention of Pippen's playoff performances between 1994-96. Kemp was far more impactful. Heck, if we look at the '96 finals, Kemp dominated Rodman in game 1, putting up 32 points on 64% (led all scorers including MJ). Phil then made the switch and had Longley guard Kemp the rest of the series.

We saw what Penny did against Chicago in both 1995 and 1996. And in the 1995 finals against Houson, Penny played extremely well. Penny 1995 performance was better than Pippen in all of his finals except for maybe 1991, but definitely better than anything Pippen had done in [I]all[/I] of the 1994-96 playoffs.

mehya is right, if you're a GM and you have a choice, Pippen definitely isn't your #2 pick. Who would honestly take Pippen over peak David Robinson?

Pippen won MVP votes? Well, David Robinson won an MVP award..... in one of the very years that's being argued here - 1995.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14335686]Yea. I'm a big Pippen fan. But singling out total votes for accolades doesn't tell me much because guys like MJ were out, Barkley injured, Penny was a rookie in 1994, Shaq was injured, etc.

Not to mention, there is no mention of Pippen's playoff performances between 1994-96. Kemp was far more impactful. Heck, if we look at the '96 finals, Kemp dominated Rodman in game 1, putting up 32 points on 64% (led all scorers including MJ). Phil then made the switch and had Longley guard Kemp the rest of the series.

We saw what Penny did against Chicago in both 1995 and 1996. And in the 1995 finals against Houson, Penny played extremely well. Penny 1995 performance was better than Pippen in all of his finals except for maybe 1991, but definitely better than anything Pippen had done in [I]all[/I] of the 1994-96 playoffs.

mehya is right, if you're a GM and you have a choice, Pippen definitely isn't your #2 pick. Who would honestly take Pippen over peak David Robinson?

Pippen won MVP votes? Well, David Robinson won an MVP award..... in one of the very years that's being argued here - 1995.[/QUOTE]

#2 is just asinine :facepalm . I don't care how good Pippen was defensively, he's nowhere near top 5 for that era with how mediocre his offensive impact actually was.

guys, i though players knew best :confusedshrug:

why are folks so triggered by Rodmans take :oldlol:

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14335647]Great, so what this boils down to is cherry picking quotes to suit your argument. Never mind what the data, eye test, and analysis actually says.

You just ignored the fact that when you look at year-by-year voting for accolades, it ignores the context like injuries and players like Penny being a rookie and MJ missing a year and three quarters.[/QUOTE]

Ok. So if he had great stats (even historic in 95) finished top 5 in both MVP and DPOY, 2 of three years in question, led the NBA in All-NBA votes in 94, and we've pulled up quotes from his peers, and articles of what was being said at the time, Im supposed to disregard that for how you feel? Oh and overlook my eye test?

What is everyone basing their assessment on?

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14335679]Yeah, that's the key part. Barkley and MJ were the two best players in '93 and in the middle of their primes. MJ retires and Barkley has his injuries in the '94 & '95 Regular Seasons. Pippen was not better than Hakeem, D-Rob, Ewing, Malone & Shaq anyways, you add MJ and Barkley to that list and he's just a borderline top 10 player as a 2nd option, who could never be the #1 option on a championship team. If Barkley's healthy in '94 & '95, Pippen doesn't make 1st team All-NBA and is not top 3 in the MVP voting, the forward spot wasn't all that deep either in those years, it's Pippen, Malone & Barkley, the Center position was deep, and only one of them could make 1st team.

Funny how he brings up the Knicks series being close in '94, but ignores that Pippen was way worse against them, even averaged less points than the year before, despite not having MJ there. Grant and Armstrong carried his ass offensively and Pippen quit on his team because Phil didn't trust him to take the last shot. He had 13 points on 5/16 shooting in Game 6 and his team still pushed it to a Game 7, even with Ewing having 26/14 on 9/18 FG.[/QUOTE]

Pippen got more votes than Malone. And he was healthy. Most people felt Malone was better than Barkley.

You guys are incredible. In this very thread. Roundball Rock showed articles saying Pippen was the front runner for MVP before HE GOT HURT IN 96. But that doesn't matter. Only Barkelys and Shaqs and Penny's injuries matter. Lol. Hell Jordan is now so great, he doesnt even have to play in the league and he still gets a top 5 ranking!!! This is insane.

How can a guy that you feel that the guy that is less talented, be held to a higher standard than the guys you feel are more talented? Shouldnt that be the other way around?

[QUOTE=LAmbruh;14335651]damn, 97 Bulls still spit roasting this Jordan stain per usual



HuggiesNY soiling himself attempting to defend Ordan and his competition at ever teet :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
:(

Careful. Or else he might shift back to spamming trash with his 3ball and his trada7029 dup.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14335704]#2 is just asinine :facepalm . I don't care how good Pippen was defensively, he's nowhere near top 5 for that era with how mediocre his offensive impact actually was.[/QUOTE]

Well, the title says 93, 94, and 95. But Rodman actually stated 93-94 and 94-95 seasons. Pippen was definitely top 5 then.