MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[QUOTE=8Ball;14924144]3 dead ball turnovers were credited as steals for Jordan.[/QUOTE]

Kid

stop worrying about 3 dead ball accredition and beating around the bush.

That man played full 82 games unlike your load managing illegal drug dealer

Just imagine how many "stocks" they might have missed together because they are UNCLEAN or CO-blocked.

By the time, Klutch Media is done with All full 82 games, all 48+ minutes each game,

MJ might end up with 300+ and 150+, lol. or maybe even more. That man did not rest on defense at age 24.

He is only 41 and 19 short.

Bron'sexuals and Klutch need to really worry about that. in the end, you might end up enhancing his legacy.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924172]They were fool, do the math 10 Hawks turnovers, 10 Bulls Steals. 3 uncredited dead ball turnovers, 3 missing steals for Jordan. It's not that hard to connect dots 3melt.[/QUOTE]


The dead ball numbers are Haberstroh's numbers and aren't documented anywhere else in history except Haberstroh's account of the footage, which he got from a guy in Latvia so no one can verify.. So the fraud is very real.. That's why I said that Haberstroh made sure that no one can verify the live-ball numbers, but this goes for the dead-ball numbers as well - this stuff isn't reported - you have to watch the entire games to see.

But again, the entire idea that someone can take the most negative interpretation of subjective things like deflections, steals or live balls and have that override the previous subjective ruling, while having a "night-before-class" 6-game sample is unbelievable.

So again, there are other far more viable reasons than [I]league-wide[/I] cheating bookkeepers for the "normal" level of home inflation that everyone had in previous eras, such as the far tougher road conditions that yielded horrible road records compared to today's teams.. So the "normal" levels of inflation can be explained this way, while the one-off, massive inflation from 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem, 86' Robertson and others is due to personal reasons that affect home/road performance in that particular year, or other reasons.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924188]The dead ball numbers are Haberstroh's numbers and aren't documented anywhere else in history except Haberstroh's account of the footage, which he got from a guy in Latvia so no one can verify.. So the fraud is very real.. That's why I said that Haberstroh made sure that no one can verify the live-ball numbers, but this goes for the dead-ball numbers as well - this stuff isn't reported - you have to watch the entire games to see.

But again, the entire idea that someone can take the most negative interpretation of subjective things like deflections, steals or live balls and have that override the previous subjective ruling, while having a "night-before-class" 6-game sample is unbelievable.

So again, there are other far more viable reasons than [I]league-wide[/I] cheating bookkeepers for the "normal" level of home inflation that everyone had in previous eras, such as the far tougher road conditions that yielded horrible road records compared to today's teams.. So the "normal" levels of inflation can be explained this way, while the one-off, massive inflation from 88' Jordan, 90' Hakeem, 86' Robertson and others is due to personal reasons that affect home/road performance in that particular year, or other reasons.[/QUOTE]

What's really going to bake your noodle is when you realize how many advanced metrics use blocks and steals, and that the extent of this number fudging could delegitimize his advanced stats we've used in so many debates......

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924197]What's really going to bake your noodle is when you realize how many advanced metrics use blocks and steals, and that the extent of this number fudging could delegitimize his advanced stats we've used in so many debates......[/QUOTE]


Nope... Even if you don't believe in logic and only believe in Haberstroh's lies, we have the offensive side of BPM - offensive box plus/minus (OBPM).

MJ is #1 in OBPM (8.80), while Jokic is 2nd (8.18) and Lebron is 3rd (7.50)... So MJ is still goat by a mile, even if you're a victim of the fraud and believe he isn't nearly as good as he was.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924199]Nope... Even if you don't believe in logic and only believe in Haberstroh's lies, we have the offensive side of BPM - offensive box plus/minus (OBPM).

MJ is #1 in OBPM (8.80), while Jokic is 2nd (8.18) and Lebron is 3rd (7.50)... So MJ is still goat by a mile, even if you're a victim of the fraud and believe he isn't nearly as good as he was.[/QUOTE]


Sure we do, but when you debate a players dpoy candidacy alot of us look at stuff like Defensive Win Shares, Defensive Rating, Block%, Steal%. All affected by steals or blocks stats. Also some people's go to catch all stats PER and Winshares? Steals and Blocks. It could be really bad.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924201]Sure we do, but when you debate a players dpoy candidacy alot of us look at stuff like Defensive Win Shares, Defensive Rating, Block%, Steal%. All affected by steals or blocks stats. Also some people's go to catch all stats PER and Winshares? Steals and Blocks. It could be really bad.[/QUOTE]

Could be. But could also not be. All this from some dude in Latvia who has an alleged 6 game sample size on VHS lmao. Author still has yet to release any tape. I wonder why :oldlol:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924172]They were fool, do the math 10 Hawks turnovers, 10 Bulls Steals. 3 uncredited dead ball turnovers, 3 missing steals for Jordan. It's not that hard to connect dots 3melt.[/QUOTE]

The denial is insane. :oldlol:

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[QUOTE=theman93;14924203]Could be. But could also not be. All this from some dude in Latvia who has an alleged 6 game sample size on VHS lmao. Author still has yet to release any tape. I wonder why :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

A 6 game sample size supported by anomalous stats from the same year, kept by a guy who was quoted as telling Mj "i take care of you" and is also known for pumping a player from a precvous eras stats so hard they say he made him famous. Also love the dismissal without any sort of proof or data of your own, very ISH of you. Anybody who likes watching old games to a particular level knows the NBA has an iron grip on its old game archives, they have them but they won't share them. Wilt and Russell fans have been begging for the release of games they have for decades already. If the author were to release the VHS full games they have the NBA would immediately hit them with a copyright takedown, let's not act brand new. You guys might be slow, but you aren't this dumb.

6 game sample size from 2011 Finals is all we need to show that this entire discussion isn’t really relevant

try to take away all the steals you want and jordan is still the goat by far

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924215]A 6 game sample size supported by anomalous stats from the same year, kept by a guy who was quoted as telling Mj "i take care of you" and is also known for pumping a player from a precvous eras stats so hard they say he made him famous. [B]Also love the dismissal without any sort of proof or data of your own[/B], very ISH of you. Anybody who likes watching old games to a particular level knows the NBA has an iron grip on its old game archives, they have them but they won't share them. Wilt and Russell fans have been begging for the release of games they have for decades already. If the author were to release the VHS full games they have the NBA would immediately hit them with a copyright takedown, let's not act brand new. You guys might be slow, but you aren't this dumb.[/QUOTE]

Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie” is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14924223]6 game sample size from 2011 Finals is all we need to show that this entire discussion isn’t really relevant

try to take away all the steals you want and jordan is still the goat by far[/QUOTE]
Both are also higher in the all-time rankings and have more finals mvps than your precious lil' chef. :ohwell:

[QUOTE=Axe;14924225]Both are also higher in the all-time rankings and have more finals mvps than your precious lil' chef. :ohwell:[/QUOTE]

But one guy jumps multiple ships just to make SUPER team to win FMVPs. He cannot build. He can only buy.

Chef atleast created his own DYNASTY.

SUPER teams given the other guy FMVPs. which make them weak FMVPs. Almost non-FMVPs. Just as good as chef not winning.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924224]Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie” is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.[/QUOTE]

No it didn't.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924224]Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie” is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.[/QUOTE]

How do you figure it discredited anything, cause it said nuh-uh? :oldlol: That's a pretty sizeable article with lots of details and info. You've gotta do better than that chap. I dunno if the numbers are fake, you guys just might be better defenders than Mj....

[QUOTE=theman93;14924224]Thats not how it works buddy. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not me.
[b]“Trust me bro, I watched the VHS with my Latvian homie”[/b] is hardly that.

Anyways, there was already a video posted early that easily discredited the article.[/QUOTE]

Boom.