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[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14937292]Dankok's final roster
C - Kareem | Zo
F - McHale
F - Pierce | Dr. J
G - Kobe | Rice
G - CP3[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14937297]Jmaster’s final roster
C- Duncan - Wemby
F -Rasheed
F- Middleton
G - R. Miller - SGA
G - Magic - Kidd[/QUOTE]Thanks for doing that.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14937297]Jmaster’s final roster
C- Duncan - Wemby
F -Rasheed
F- Middleton
G - R. Miller - SGA
G - Magic - Kidd[/QUOTE]
Middleton sticks out as a fatigued lets get this overwith pick :lol
Would have liked to see another prime time finisher like Worthy or Amare even if it meant playing big in the front court. I think you get more out of Magic and Kidd that way than any gains Middleton's 3pt shot brings.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14937289]Teams will concede midrange shots even to guys who are good from there though, that's the difference. I'd much rather have one of those elite paint guys shooting midrange shots at 45 TS% then being at the rim or a guy who is capable from 3. You have to shoot 50% from midrange to be equal in value to a guy shooting 33% on 3s.[/QUOTE]
Dude... I have CP3, Kobe, Pierce in my starting lineup all of whom shoot threes well. Ain't nobody leaving them open on the perimeter. And either McHale or Kareem can be 10-12 feet from the basket while the other posts up. No defense is leaving either of them open either. If you're giving Kareem wide open 12 foot sky hooks/jumpers that won't end well for you.
Of course a bigger problem is how is the other team gonna score on me. Four elite defenders plus Pierce and I'm choosing the 2008 version so he was quite good on D as well. My defense is pretty scary probably the best of all the rosters. Don't forget defense is 50% of the game.
[QUOTE=dankok8;14937307]Dude... I have CP3, Kobe, Pierce in my starting lineup all of whom shoot threes well. Ain't nobody leaving them open on the perimeter. And either McHale or Kareem can be 10-12 feet from the basket while the other posts up. No defense is leaving either of them open either. If you're giving Kareem wide open 12 foot sky hooks/jumpers that won't end well for you.
Of course a bigger problem is how is the other team gonna score on me. Four elite defenders plus Pierce and I'm choosing the 2008 version so he was quite good on D as well. My defense is pretty scary probably the best of all the rosters. Don't forget defense is 50% of the game.[/QUOTE]
When did Kobe shoot 3s well? He shot above league average from 3 as a starter ONCE, and that was mostly in a league where 3PT shooting wasn't prioritized like it is now either. -7% from 3 compared to league average for his career.
[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen;14937303]Middleton sticks out as a fatigued lets get this overwith pick :lol
Would have liked to see another prime time finisher like Worthy or Amare even if it meant playing big in the front court. I think you get more out of Magic and Kidd that way than any gains Middleton's 3pt shot brings.[/QUOTE]
Seriously.
When it comes to these superstar teams so many people are overrating the spacing thing like you can't put up huge point totals with guys who are masters at 2pt scoring like the 80s didn't exist where teams averaged record amounts of points.
James Worthy, Chris Webber, Clyde Drexler etc. I believe all didn't get drafted. Some of these guys produced on waaaay higher efficiency than the 3pt spacer types taken.
Moses Malone is a top 15-20 GOAT and didn't even get drafted? Dr. J almost didn't either. The 1983 sixers are in contention for best team ever and those were their top guns. Sidney Moncrief didn't either. These were well rounded superstars.
It's crazy.
[QUOTE=Charlie Sheen;14937303]Middleton sticks out as a fatigued lets get this overwith pick :lol
Would have liked to see another prime time finisher like Worthy or Amare even if it meant playing big in the front court. I think you get more out of Magic and Kidd that way than any gains Middleton's 3pt shot brings.[/QUOTE]
lol I think that’s fair criticism. I might have tunnel visioned a bit with that pick.
[QUOTE=tpols;14937309]Seriously.
When it comes to these superstar teams so many people are overrating the spacing thing like you can't put up huge point totals with guys who are masters at 2pt scoring like the 80s didn't exist where teams averaged record amounts of points.
James Worthy, Chris Webber, Clyde Drexler etc. I believe all didn't get drafted. Some of these guys produced on waaaay higher efficiency than the 3pt spacer types taken.
Moses Malone is a top 15-20 GOAT and didn't even get drafted? Dr. J almost didn't either. Sidney Moncrief didn't either. These were well rounded superstars.
It's crazy.[/QUOTE]
They were playing against teams who played the same style of ball. Any 80s team would get absolutely obliterated by a modern team. They shot like 5 3s a game and made maybe 1, teams today are making like 14 3s a game. Right off the bat that's almost a 40 point advantage for the modern team.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14937312]They were playing against teams who played the same style of ball. Any 80s team would get absolutely obliterated by a modern team. They shot like 5 3s a game and made maybe 1, teams today are making like 14 3s a game. Right off the bat that's almost a 40 point advantage for the modern team.[/QUOTE]
Again if that happened it would only be because the current teams role players got hot from 3. This is a superstar draft. Not a comparison of an average NBA team from 1985 vs today.
Nobody had any problem taking Bird or Magic or Kareem from the early 80s in the 1st round of this draft two of whom didn't shoot 3s at all but Moses and Dr. J are off the table?
That makes no sense. The 1983 Sixers were one of the most dominant title teams ever and were led by those two players.
Guys, there are no correct answers here, it's a matter of taste. Some people like to draft era specifc teams, like me, and others like to draft bad teams. It's all good.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14937308]When did Kobe shoot 3s well? He shot above league average from 3 as a starter ONCE, and that was mostly in a league where 3PT shooting wasn't prioritized like it is now either. -7% from 3 compared to league average for his career.[/QUOTE]
Kobe shot 36% from 3pt on 5 attempts a game in 2008 and took a lot of bailout shots. Trust me, no one leaves Kobe open at the 3pt line. My starting PG/SG/SF are shooting ~15 threes a game at ~40%. And surely much higher than that on open shots when the defense collapses to deal with the Kareem/McHale double monster down low. Besides Rice will get a bunch of Pierce's minutes and he takes 6 threes a game and makes them at a 47% clip!
Just to be clear, these are the years for the players I'm choosing.
PG: 2015 Chris Paul
SF: 2008 Kobe Bryant
SF: 2008 Paul Pierce
PF: 1987 Kevin McHale
C: 1980 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bench:
1980 Julius Erving
1997 Glen Rice
2000 Alonzo Mourning
[QUOTE=tpols;14937313]Again if that happened it would only be because the current teams role players got hot from 3. This is a superstar draft. Not a comparison of an average NBA team from 1985 vs today.
Nobody had any problem taking Bird or Magic or Kareem from the early 80s in the 1st round of this draft two of whom didn't shoot 3s at all but Moses and Dr. J are off the table?
That makes no sense. The 1983 Sixers were one of the most dominant title teams ever and were led by those two players.[/QUOTE]
I would draft Moses or Dr. J if I had 4 other shooters to surround them with, but there are likely better options for non-3PT shooters then them available, which is why they didn't get picked. You can play one guy who's useless from 3, but it's basically impossible to play with 2 guys who literally don't take 3s now.
And no a current team would not need to get hot to beat an 80s team, it's just simple volume. They could shoot 35% on 3s and blow the door off the other team shooting 48% on all twos.
[QUOTE=dankok8;14937316]Kobe shot 36% from 3pt on 5 attempts a game in 2008 and took a lot of bailout shots. Trust me, no one leaves Kobe open at the 3pt line. My starting PG/SG/SF are shooting ~15 threes a game at ~40%. And surely much higher than that on open shots when the defense collapses to deal with the Kareem/McHale double monster down low. Besides Rice will get a bunch of Pierce's minutes and he takes 6 threes a game and makes them at a 47% clip!
Just to be clear, these are the years for the players I'm choosing.
PG: 2015 Chris Paul
SF: 2008 Kobe Bryant
SF: 2008 Paul Pierce
PF: 1987 Kevin McHale
C: 1980 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bench:
1980 Julius Erving
1997 Glen Rice
2000 Alonzo Mourning[/QUOTE]
Kobe taking bad shots is not a positive, and he was shooting poorly from 3 even when he played with peak Shaq. Rice is a good pick but you'd have to play him a lot with the rest of that roster and probably not play Erving much at all.
[QUOTE=DJMcDonald;14937314]Guys, there are no correct answers here, it's a matter of taste. Some people like to draft era specifc teams, like me, and others like to draft bad teams. It's all good.[/QUOTE]
:lol
[QUOTE=RRR3;14937319]Kobe taking bad shots is not a positive, and he was shooting poorly from 3 even when he played with peak Shaq. Rice is a good pick but you'd have to play him a lot with the rest of that roster and probably not play Erving much at all.[/QUOTE]
Taking bad shots is not a positive but Kobe won't need to carry a big offensive load or take tough shots on this team. He'll shoot when he's open or exploit mismatches and take bad defenders to school. And of course he'll be able to focus a lot on defense.
[QUOTE=tpols;14937309]Seriously.
When it comes to these superstar teams so many people are overrating the spacing thing like you can't put up huge point totals with guys who are masters at 2pt scoring like the 80s didn't exist where teams averaged record amounts of points.
James Worthy, Chris Webber, Clyde Drexler etc. I believe all didn't get drafted. Some of these guys produced on waaaay higher efficiency than the 3pt spacer types taken.
Moses Malone is a top 15-20 GOAT and didn't even get drafted? Dr. J almost didn't either. The 1983 sixers are in contention for best team ever and those were their top guns. Sidney Moncrief didn't either. These were well rounded superstars.
It's crazy.[/QUOTE]I think we too often give players of the past too much credit while shitting on players today. Khris Middleton shot over 48% from 10-16 and over 45% from 16-3pt FOR HIS CAREER and was clutch in closing out key games in the finals against the Suns… again using the middie… off the dribble too. And he’s a capable secondary/ third playmaker who can give you 4 assists. This is all ON TOP of being a 3 and D player when need be. That being said, a wing who is elite in transition with Magic and Kidd is good criticism.
In contrast, we just assume someone like McHale can play at the top of the key. It’s too bad distance shooting %’s didn’t exist, but doing a quick dive most breakdowns of McHale’s game online doesn’t suggest he has range outside of 12-15.
If we break down his 56 point game
[video=youtube;xrm6Ab-iAcU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrm6Ab-iAcU&themeRefresh=1[/video]
He had 2 12-15 foot fadeaways and the rest were baby hooks and layups. I’m guilty of it too, earlier in this same thread I suggested he’s probably Laettner level in terms of spacing and I was dead wrong. We assume he’s money from midrange because he’s an all timer known for his skill… and to some degree we still have the “white guy can shoot” mentality when judging players.
Even if you look up Bird highlights to see the spacing McHale provides and it’s nonexistent.
That being said, McHale made it work with Parish, so I don’t see much issue of him playing alongside 1980 KAJ.
But Tpols, no one is out here drafting Kapono and Watanabe. Spacing is crucial, there’s a reason Curry is often considered the goat in terms of offensive impact and for a lot of these teams it isn’t so much living and dying from 3, but being at least respectable from there. You don’t need 5 30 point scorers, no one’s scoring 200 ppg here.