Printable View
It may shock you to learn but....a great many things written down are not true. Especially things written thousands of years ago...edited time and time again....themselves depicting events from thousands(billions) of years before the people writing them existed.
[QUOTE=CleveTown
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]It may shock you to learn but....a great many things written down are not true. Especially things written thousands of years ago...edited time and time again....themselves depicting events from thousands(billions) of years before the people writing them existed.[/QUOTE]
Totally. There are forgeries, contradictions in the scriptures and historic events, prophecies that didn't happen, and ppl who experience something that is according to their religion. Some could be deem as folklore, some seem like it has some merit.
The whole "god" concept is really subjective to culture. And sometimes to even the individual.
[QUOTE=Micku]No one knows.
No one even knows if there was a creator in the first place.
While cell phones and computers are created by intelligent beings, what about photons which is created by the discharge of positively charged hydrogen atoms being fused together so hard to create helium? That doesn't require any god it appears. It just is.
We could go further to sub atomic particles like protons, elections and neutrons. Or even the quarks that make up those subatomic particles.
And we can talk about the higgs boson, which gives these particles mass. With the mass, comes with gravity.
The universe itself could've always existed, just in a very compressed state. However the universe that is constantly expanding, perhaps happened relatively recently. Dark energy is responsible for the universe expanding and we don't know what it is.
Regardless, the the most honest answer that humanity could give is that we don't know. Whatever you feel god created it, the universe always existed, or some other reason...we just don't know. We probably won't know for a very long time, assuming if our race would even live that long and if we are even smart enough to comprehend the answer.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a being that is beyond our comprehension created our universe, but there is hardly if any evidence to suggest it.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but this is a shitpost.
[QUOTE=TommyGriffin]I'm sorry, but this is a shitpost.[/QUOTE]
!!!
You're a shitpost. :no:
[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]if aliens exists, which they do, creationism will become extinct.[/QUOTE]
What if those aliens believe in a god/religion that we have on Earth doe?
Granted, it'll be unlikely. The fact that we have different religions in different regions of the world says something about religion. And ppl who experience personal experiences differs from each culture. Like check out the near death experiences from a person who is a Hindu, then the Native American religion, then Christianity.
Assuming if we can even find alien species, it just depends on their intelligence for to give us any indication of there being a god (any god of the Earth's religion) or not. It won't stop the idea of there being a creator tho. Also, through the evolutionary cycle in Earth, it seems intelligence isn't really that important. How many on this planet species are capable of self awareness? We're not even talking about calculus or philosophy or anything.
We're the only species that are capable of doing this. We're probably the only species capable of doing this across lightyears away.
Another thought is that we could be the smartest organisms in our galaxy.
[QUOTE=CleveTown™]you will find out God exists when you die or if Jesus comes back in your life time[/QUOTE]
Eh. Well, there's a lot of religions. So, a bunch of things could happen after you die. With Sufism, whatever you believe that's where you'll go (I think that's how it goes). With Hinduism, you'll go to this afterlife thing where you'll either tortured if you are bad or a peaceful experience before you are reborn again. I think Buddhism believe in reincarnation too?
I forgot what happens with some Native American religions.
The Jews could be right and Jesus is not the messiah, and you'll be waiting for nothing. And some Jews don't think there is an afterlife after death and everyone who dies will go there. So, there's no hell, and perhaps there is an heaven.
With Sikhism, there are some debates about what happens after you die. I think one of the ideas is that when you die, nothing happens. You don't really die, and you are not really born. It just that you just change forms. It's not too far from what actually happens to your body. Your body and the chemicals inside your body does just change forms. You'll get eaten, turn into gas or liquid or whatever. Change into state of matter.
I do wonder what happens to your conciseness tho. It appears it's physical since brain damage could affect your personality. Pyschopaths have lack of empathy, and it occurs in the prefrontal cortex cortex of the brain where there is a lack of activity. Things that we feel, like love (a mixture of chemicals such as oxytocin and dopamine and etc) all have physical forms from the periodic table. Like Ocytocin is made out of 43 Carbon, 66 hydrogen. 12 nitrogen, 12 oxygen, and 2 sulfurs.
Is there even such thing as a soul if everything what you are is nothing more than brain matter that could be change if dmg is done or manipulated by chemical reaction? And a lot of what you are is through genetic heredity as well. If all of this stops functioning, then what becomes the brain matter that makes you...you? Does it just stop and you become nothing? You won't know it just like how you aren't be able to comprehend things before you were born. Before you were even a sperm or an egg. All of the chemical reactions would just whiter away.
The conciseness of what we are is the most important to us as human beings. For it to be not important or to lose everything of what we are; it might be the most scary thing to us. But when we die, doesn't that happen anyway? Everything what we are as human through physical matter is dissolved. What happens afterwards depends on whatever you want to believe I guess. If it makes you comfortable that you will be reborn, live forever in heaven, or whatever, then so be it I guess. But your original body, everything that contains of what you are, is pretty much gone. Since energy is never lost or destroyed, the parts that make up your body is just converted into something else. And it will be many parts. You already see that happening with your dead skin cells in your room. Whenever you see little particles in the pint rays of light, that's a mixture of dust and your dead cells. And you are constantly breathing in dead skin cells of yourself and other people.
Anyway, who knows what happens after you die. It would be neat if your consciousness would still be kicking tho. If it doesn't, well...you wouldn't notice. And there are soo many other things that could happen after you die that isn't rooted to Christianity. That's like more than half of the world too that believes in other stuff.
because likely your'e a f-cking idiot there, mate.
and do you know why??
[size=4]HERE'S why:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJ-_OTvsqo[/url][/size]
[QUOTE=greymatter]And of course a thread about atheists isn't ever without one of the mind-numbingly stupid religionists projecting their insecurities. That insecurity being the fact that they don't like admitting that their default appeal to "not questioning the answers" is in reality a sign of intellectual laziness/inferiority to the "seeking answers to the questions" mindset that atheists are far more likely to ascribe to.
Science is always open to be questioned for its veracity. The same cant be said of religion.[/QUOTE]
Well, you being an atheist doesn't mean that you take science as your lord and savior, lol.
Science is separate. It's just means the knowledge about the natural world, with this comes with experimentation and observation.
Religion is more of the supernatural.
Science has the luxury of correcting itself.
Unfortunately religion doesn't...for the most part. You can correct the scriptures through correction with errors and forgeries. But it's mostly subjective. Like Catholics and protestants. Martin Luther took out a chuck of the new testament due to the fact he thought the church was corrupt. He only kept the old testament and Jesus stories because he thought it was the word of god. He was going to take out Revelation, but decided against it. Prior to protestant, ppl were taught the catholic or the orthodox way for about 1400-1500 years. And even with that, it contain errors.
And we don't know which stories of the bible are just "stories" or if it actually happened. Like there is no evidence of Moses existing or the events of Exodus happening historically. However, that doesn't mean it "didn't" happen, it just that we have no evidence. Same thing as some events that happened in the New Testament.
With science, it's more critical and ppl are waiting to prove you wrong. Constantly checking crap. Like with Newton. Newton said to think of gravity as a force that makes particles leave their straight paths. With Einstein and his theory, he said it's more to think of gravity as distortion of space and time. Einstein hold up.
And some of Einstein theories are being challenged with string theory I think.
But you don't have to be an atheist to like science and crap. It just the whole concept of "god did it" is just being cut down by the more we know about the physical nature of our universe. If you are religious, I guess you can say science is like learning god's method.
The wisdom of science is that it self-corrects, allowing you to progressively master the dangers of reality.
The wisdom of religion is that it doesn't. You need to believe in something if you want some measure of tranquility as you journey towards death (ideally something science will never be able to challenge, since science is mighty useful and you need it as well). You need a ground to stand on, a foundation for your existence.
And the strongest foundation is to have faith in a transcendent order of some kind.
You can't really get by believing in yourself (and by extension, human beings, humanism, or whatever it is), because you know, deep down, what humans are worth, which is to say, not much.
Familiarity breeds contempt - it's just too easy to call BS on yourself and your fellow man. Even if you want your faith to be humanistic, it needs to be man in a greater context of "isn't the universe just awe-inspiring", not "wow, isn't this vaguely astute species of primate the meaning and measure of all things!"
Religious people feel that something must have created everything, so that something must be God, but who created God? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=BoutPractice]The wisdom of science is that it self-corrects, allowing you to progressively master the dangers of reality.
The wisdom of religion is that it doesn't. [/QUOTE]
False. Repentance, readjusting behavior, good deeds, deeper worship, expanding in knowledge of God, uncovering deeper and deeper layers of wisdom from the Holy Scriptures etc are all corrections of the self.
More over, one can not understand the purpose of creation without remembering the Creator.
And one cannot attain sound wisdom or judgment without understanding clearly what is right and wrong and practicing it over and over again which allows for higher degrees of knowledge and thus responsibility
Exemplified by the 124000 prophets of the past being the best people in all regards.
You need to believe in something if you want some measure of tranquility as you journey towards death (ideally something science will never be able to challenge, since science is mighty useful and you need it as well). You need a ground to stand on, a foundation for your existence.
Yes the foundation of human existence is they were created to worship God.
If one skips out on that fundamental duty they begin to become imbalanced and have all sorts of odd anxieties.
Pretty sure the narrative is human beings soul originate in an unseen spirit world and material reality is just a world of tests for the soul to develop and refine and become righteous later to be judged on the Last Day where the temporary world destroys and paves way to a more eternal realm.
. This was understood by many since the beginning.
Some mistakenly see religion as a coping mechanism for death because that's how your individual life has played out when one must keep in mind that
A) Hell is far worse than nonexistence.
B) people wouldn't even desire eternal life in the first place if they weren't created with an aching desire for it and had the means to earn it
[QUOTE]And the strongest foundation is to have faith in a transcendent order of some kind.
You can't really get by believing in yourself (and by extension, human beings, humanism, or whatever it is), because you know, deep down, what humans are worth, which is to say, not much.[/QUOTE]
Materially yes.
Spiritually, no.
humans are the highest creations in that regard
A mother crying over her sons pains or a man fighting to protect his wife are certainly strong emotions that don't allude to the individuals having low value.
[QUOTE]Familiarity breeds contempt - it's just too easy to call BS on yourself and your fellow man. Even if you want your faith to be humanistic, it needs to be man in a greater context of "isn't the universe just awe-inspiring", not "wow, isn't this vaguely astute species of primate the meaning and measure of all things!"[/QUOTE]
EXCELLENT COMMENT.
The universe is a we inspiring. Once you respect and reflect on it you get to see the manifeststation of the beauty glory excellence subtlety etc of God.
[QUOTE=TommyGriffin]Revelation 1:8 -
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]It may shock you to learn but....a great many things written down are not true. Especially things written thousands of years ago...edited time and time again....themselves depicting events from thousands(billions) of years before the people writing them existed.[/QUOTE]
And what is truth exactly?
The deeper you dig you'll realise that if you don't accept first principles which have been handed down to you in one way or another then there can be no such thing as truth. And that's the truth :lol
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]It comes down to "I dont know....so....magic" vs "I dont know.....lets keep looking into it". I dont settle for absurd fairy tale answers because the question is beyond our current ability to answer.[/QUOTE]
Although the spirit of your intellectual humility and curiosity is correct as it is obligtaory on all mankind to attain knowledge, your mockery and ignorance is both distasteful, irritating, and ultimately directly leading to your destruction.
[QUOTE][COLOR="Green"][B]And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
^Really, really ponder on the aforementioned Ayat, KBlaze.
It doesn't matter if a toddler or John Nash answered if 2 + 2 = 4.
Likewise, it's understood that it all began with God; from the truthful account of billions of people; be they Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Sabian, of differing intellectual levels; be they child or fully fledged old scholars.
[QUOTE] The expansion of the universe suggests the big bang happened....so the origin of the universe isnt the issue as much as the origin of the matter that "banged" to begin with. Science cant prove where it came from....[I].faith doesnt even try[/I]. [/QUOTE]
You've got limited time on this Earth, K. Is it wiser for you to honestly dedicate decades of research to maybe contribute a piece of knowledge undiscovered to the human pool OR to do a good deed within your capability.
As for the origin of matter....
[QUOTE][U][B][COLOR="Green"]And it is He who created the heavens and earth in truth. And the day He says, "Be," and it is, His word is the truth. And His is the dominion [on] the Day the Horn is blown. [He is] Knower of the unseen and the witnessed; and He is the Wise, the Acquainted.[/COLOR][/B][/U]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][COLOR="Pink"]"God did it" is just a lazy approach that sidesteps the obvious question of....who created god. God always existing isnt an answer. Its a copout that requires you to accept the fairy tale to begin with.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Fairy Tale? Right, so the millions of believers are simply living in la-la land whereas the way you've led your life thus far, K, puts you at a sounder level of understanding of reality.
Good on you for promoting the value of diligence though, something beloved universally in all human beings and especially Christian ethics.
[QUOTE][COLOR="Green"][U][B]"Allah! There is no god but He - the[B] Living, The Self-subsisting, [U]Eternal[/U].[/B] No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory)."[/B][/U][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Y[COLOR="Pink"]ou want to choose to believe the answer is in a book you believe in because you were born in the right place, time, and culture to convince you of it...go right ahead. But lets not try to carry that over into science[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]
You haven't even read, nor understood, let alone applied the book they believe in. Don't kid people otherwise.
[QUOTE][COLOR="Pink"]Science is only in its infancy. [B]Man only started asking these questions and working on the answers without being persecuted a few hundred years ago[/B]. And they didnt have much in the way of tools or the ability to converse with other like minded people[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]
That is a huge lie and conjecture. You severely underestimate the intellect of our ancestors, but that has been covered earlier this post.
[QUOTE]Asking why we dont know the ultimate questions of life and the origin of matter while people alive today were around before we left our own atmosphere?[/QUOTE]
The One who Created us also granted us guidance from the beginning with the first Prophet, Adam.
It's our own errors, sins and mistakes that cause conflict in our heart. But here you are witnessing a response. A response you can not ignore.
The second you were a sperm cell in daddy's balls, you were formed into an organized incredible work of art; the human being.
When I'm lost, in other terms [QUOTE]“[B]Wilderness wandering[/B]” refers to the plight of the Israelites due to their [B]disobedience and unbelief[/B]. [COLOR="Green"][U][B]Nearly 3,500 years ago, the Lord delivered His people from Egyptian bondage as described in Exodus, chapters 1–12. [/B][/U][/COLOR][/QUOTE]... I pray for Guidance. And I've received it, hundreds and hundreds of times over. My life, previously having looked chaotic are starting to have interconnections. The same can be witnessed and testified by the millions who say that.
[COLOR="Pink"]But we will be closer. Unless of course "God did it" is ever accepted as an answer by the people we need to keep digging for all our sakes.
"God did it" doesnt hurt anyone...[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"].long as the people who believe it dont use it as a crutch to stop trying to learn[/COLOR]. Believe it all you want. [COLOR="Blue"]Then apply the scientific method to get something[B] accomplished.[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]
Red is true. But how the heck did you even get that thought in your head? Ask Dresta about the origins of learning being closely tied with the Church.
Did Satan deceive you into thinking achievement and religion were separate mutually inexclusive things? That's kinda what he does.
As for blue.
That's funny.
You ever start a family?
Or maintained a civilization?
Or built a building?
Or united people together?
Or established a codified moral system?
Or *insert* things the scientific method in and of itself can not do solely.