Jokic is the 4th best player of all time

[QUOTE=RRR3;14990103]Outside of Curry, just off the top of my head the following point guards have been starters on championship teams: Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Derek Fisher (as an old man too), Tony Parker, Jamal Murray. Please tell me which of them was some notable defender :lol Matter of fact, how many great defensive starting PGs can you name from championship teams?[/QUOTE]

Honestly you are making the same mistake the other Curry stan did. Yall both completely ruined your own argument because you basically claimed that Centers are simply more important to have than PGs on an NBA roster.

You already said Jokic is a better defender than Curry, but he's also a better rebounder and offensive player too :lol

He's got Curry beat everywhere.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14990106]Honestly you are making the same mistake the other Curry stan did. Yall both completely ruined your own argument because you basically claimed that Centers are simply more important to have than PGs on an NBA roster.

You already said Jokic is a better defender than Curry, but he's also a better rebounder and offensive player too :lol

He's got Curry beat everywhere.[/QUOTE]
Center is inherently the most impactful defensive position you idiot :hammerhead:

He is not better relative to position, not even close.


Now name the great defensive PGs on championship teams, slugger. Since it's so important :yaohappy:

[QUOTE=RRR3;14990107]Center is inherently the most impactful defensive position you idiot :hammerhead:

He is not better relative to position, not even close.


Now name the great defensive PGs on championship teams, slugger. Since it's so important :yaohappy:[/QUOTE]

What exactly is Curry better at than Jokic when looking at the whole package. Jokic is a better defender and rebounder clearly. We can also argue he's a better offensive player too.

Jrue Holiday is a good example considering the Celtics just won last year. He also won with the Bucks in 2021.

Some other good ones are Jason Kidd, Rajon Rondo, Walt Frazier, Chauncy Billups, Maurice Cheeks, Jerry West, Isaiah Thomas.

There might others but that's a good list in my opinion.

Who told you Isiah Thomas was a good defender? :lol Have you even read about him? Now try naming a team with a weak defender at center that won a ring. And no Jokic is not better than Curry at offense, no one is.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14990113]Who told you Isiah Thomas was a good defender? :lol Have you even read about him? Now try naming a team with a weak defender at center that won a ring. And no Jokic is not better than Curry at offense, no one is.[/QUOTE]

Uhh, plenty of teams won rings with weak defensive centers. Are you serious? Plenty of teams nowadays even have power forwards actually playing the center position. Also small ball teams might have a guy like Lebron or Draymond play center. So clearly it's not a NEEDED thing to win.

Also Jokic has absolutely an argument of being better at offense than Curry. Jokic is basically Dirk/Nash combined into one entity on offense. Two of the best offensive players of all time COMBINED.

Bro called Draymond a weak defender and expects me to take him seriously

[QUOTE=RRR3;14990125]Bro called Draymond a weak defender and expects me to take him seriously[/QUOTE]

You said weak centers and I responded that plenty of teams DONT EVEN HAVE centers anymore. That's my point. Dray is clearly a great defender, but he's not even a center at all. Many teams have won without dominant defensive centers. MJ's bulls didn't have any, they had rodman and grant who were elite 4's for sure.

Oh by the way, here you go.

Jokic 2020-2025: 31.7 PER, 66.3 TS%, .302 WS/48, 13.1 BPM

MJ 88-93: 30.3 PER, 59.3 TS%, .288 WS/48, 11.2 BPM.

Jokic is outdoing PEAK MJ, who was literally the advanced stats god before Jokic came through :lol

Draymond plays center a ton. Do you even watch basketball?

[QUOTE=RRR3;14990133]Draymond plays center a ton. Do you even watch basketball?[/QUOTE]

Yeah but he's NOT an actual Center dummy. He's a forward stepping into play the 5 due to small ball.

Oh by the way, Jokic even leads the league this year in average 3-point distance at 28.7 feet :roll:

Jokic is literally the basketball SKILL GOD, he makes every shot from everywhere on the floor and makes every possible pass everywhere on the floor while also have an elite assist/turnover ratio.

He might be the most skilled player I have ever seen.

LeBron, MJ & Jokic are the top 3 best

[QUOTE=RRR3;14990094]Curry is quite a bit better at defense than Jokic relative to the position they play. [B] Sure Jokic is better overall at defense, but he ****ing better be as a center.[/B] Having someone with Curry's defense isn't problematic for team building at all, someone with Jokic's defense at center IS.[/QUOTE]

Steph is flat out better than Jokic defensively, this is just wrong. The problem is that Jokic is comically lazy defensively and gives very little effort. People talk a lot of shit about Lebron taking off plays defensively, but he's 40 years old. Jokic does it on a far greater level. If Steph had this pathetic level of effort defensively, he would be one of the worst defensive guards in the league. He has try a lot to be solid to good due to physical limitations.

Tonight on several instances, Jokic is just taking plays off. But hey, he is top 3 in steals so obviously that doesn't matter right? :lol There was a play tonight where Steph got a rebound next to Jokic, then ran to the 3P line to shoot a 3, and Jokic just flat didn't bother going after him. He just stood near the rim and two other guys ran towards Steph to try to defend the 3. Legitimately pathetic defending.

[QUOTE=hold this L;14990184]Steph is flat out better than Jokic defensively, this is just wrong. The problem is that Jokic is comically lazy defensively and gives very little effort. People talk a lot of shit about Lebron taking off plays defensively, but he's 40 years old. Jokic does it on a far greater level. If Steph had this pathetic level of effort defensively, he would be one of the worst defensive guards in the league. He has try a lot to be solid to good due to physical limitations.

Tonight on several instances, Jokic is just taking plays off. But hey, he is top 3 in steals so obviously that doesn't matter right? :lol There was a play tonight where Steph got a rebound next to Jokic, then ran to the 3P line to shoot a 3, and Jokic just flat didn't bother going after him. He just stood near the rim and two other guys ran towards Steph to try to defend the 3. Legitimately pathetic defending.[/QUOTE]

Jokic isn't lazy on defense, that's ridiculous. He leads the league in deflections for 6 years in a row now (for centers), leads the league by far in kick balls, always good with steals, and has a really high BBIQ. He easily calls out and stops other offensive plays just through communication alone.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14990153]LeBron, MJ & Jokic are the top 3 best[/QUOTE]

Manny my guy :rockon:

Jokic and Curry are like mirrors of themselves from opposite ends of the positional line up spectrum.

Both offensive dynamos, Yolk more consistent, Chef more explosive, both above average defense impact despite an incorrect stigma that exists.

Both top 10 GOATs at the end of their careers. Guys like Magic and Bird are kind of slipping a little because you can't cry defense there when we pull the playoff numbers.

Steve Kerr just said Jokic is the best center he's ever seen.