That’s quite a meltdown you had there. But it doesn’t change the fact that Kobe was a poor finals performer and awful in elimination games. Like I said he had the best supporting casts the years he won.
Stats don’t lie.
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That’s quite a meltdown you had there. But it doesn’t change the fact that Kobe was a poor finals performer and awful in elimination games. Like I said he had the best supporting casts the years he won.
Stats don’t lie.
I'll take that as a white flag surrender. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Baller234;15031547]I'll take that as a white flag surrender. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
You just ranted and raved about Kobe’s playoff runs. I’m aware he had some great playoff runs, you’re gonna have to do better than that to prove he’s better than Jokic tho.
Why are you avoiding Kobe’s awful elimination game stats and subpar final stats? I thought he was the second best player ever.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15031549]You just ranted and raved about Kobe’s playoff runs. I’m aware he had some great playoff runs, you’re gonna have to do better than that to prove he’s better than Jokic tho.
Why are you avoiding Kobe’s awful elimination game stats and subpar final stats? I thought he was the second best player ever.[/QUOTE]
Uh, because stats don't tell the whole story?
- Kobe was 18 when he faced the Jazz in Game 5 of the 97 first round.
- Kobe was 19 when he faced the Jazz in Game 4 of the 98 WCF.
- Kobe was 20 when he faced the Spurs in Game 4 of 99 second round.
So right off the bat you have three "elimination" games where Kobe wasn't even Kobe yet and he wasn't even a leader on the team. :oldlol:
Let's see what happens moving forward.
- 2000 finals Game 6, not an elimination game but a closeout game. If they don't win the series goes 7 and anything can happen. Kobe puts up 26/10. He sinks the last two free throws of the game with 2 seconds left to put the game out of reach. Both of them swishes. Wins his first rang.
- 2002 WCF Game 7, his first actual elimination game as a superstar. Yes I'm well aware this game is controversial. Regardless he put up 30/10/7. Great game
- 2003 WCF Game 6 was his next elimination game. The Lakers lost to the almighty Duncan that year but Kobe scored 31 pts that game.
- 2004 Finals Game 5. Okay fine, he had a shit game here and tried to do much. That's ONE game so far from your retarded "snapshot" that actually carries weight.
- His next two elimination games came during the post-Shaq but pre-Gasol era. That team just wasn't very good. He needed to be the guy every night. 06 was also when his ego got the best of him and people claimed he stopped shooting in the 2nd half to prove a point. Not his brightest moment and yes it's a real knock against him, but there's no denying that the Suns were way better than the Lakers that year. In the 07 win or go home game he scored 34 in a loss.
- After Gasol we all know how that went for awhile. Lakers went to three straight finals and won back to back rangz. They lost to the Celts in 06 but that was an all time team, both offensively and defensively.
- His next elimination game was against Dallas in 2011 in Game 4. Dallas was shooting them out of the gym and the game was over before halftime. The first real sign that the league and the game was changing and that teams could destroy from you from three if you don't guard it. Not gonna hold whatever Kobe did that 2nd half against him, the game was already over. Everything Kobe and the Lakers did from that point on was pure desperation.
But now we're at the point where Kobe is a lot older and past his prime. Year 15. So I don't even see what the point is in holding anything that happens from here on out against him. He's already proven himself and reached the mountain top.
So yea, your stats are totally fugazi and misleading. Proof positive you can't just track random stats and draw conclusions from them. You actually need to WATCH basketball in order to understand it. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Baller234;15031555]Uh, because stats don't tell the whole story?
- Kobe was 18 when he faced the Jazz in Game 5 of the 97 first round.
- Kobe was 19 when he faced the Jazz in Game 4 of the 98 WCF.
- Kobe was 20 when he faced the Spurs in Game 4 of 99 second round.
So right off the bat you have three "elimination" games where Kobe wasn't even Kobe yet and he wasn't even a leader on the team. :oldlol:
Let's see what happens moving forward.
- 2000 finals Game 6, not an elimination game but a closeout game. If they don't win the series goes 7 and anything can happen. Kobe puts up 26/10. He sinks the last two free throws of the game with 2 seconds left to put the game out of reach. Both of them swishes. Wins his first rang.
- 2002 WCF Game 7, his first actual elimination game as a superstar. Yes I'm well aware this game is controversial. Regardless he put up 30/10/7. Great game
- 2003 WCF Game 6 was his next elimination game. The Lakers lost to the almighty Duncan that year but Kobe scored 31 pts that game.
- 2004 Finals Game 5. Okay fine, he had a shit game here and tried to do much. That's ONE game so far from your retarded "snapshot" that actually carries weight.
- His next two elimination games came during the post-Shaq but pre-Gasol era. That team just wasn't very good. He needed to be the guy every night. 06 was also when his ego got the best of him and people claimed he stopped shooting in the 2nd half to prove a point. Not his brightest moment and yes it's a real knock against him, but there's no denying that the Suns were way better than the Lakers that year. In the 07 win or go home game he scored 34 in a loss.
- After Gasol we all know how that went for awhile. Lakers went to three straight finals and won back to back rangz. They lost to the Celts in 06 but that was an all time team, both offensively and defensively.
- His next elimination game was against Dallas in 2011 in Game 4. Dallas was shooting them out of the gym and the game was over before halftime. The first real sign that the league and the game was changing and that teams could destroy from you from three if you don't guard it. Not gonna hold whatever Kobe did that 2nd half against him, the game was already over. Everything Kobe and the Lakers did from that point on was pure desperation.
But now we're at the point where Kobe is a lot older and past his prime. Year 15. So I don't even see what the point is in holding anything that happens from here on out against him. He's already proven himself and reached the mountain top.
So yea, your stats are totally fugazi and misleading. Proof positive you can't just track random stats and draw conclusions from them. You actually need to WATCH basketball in order to understand it. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Noticed you left out efficiency. Why?
kobe was abscessed with shooting the ball
Joker team player 101 (mr. fundamental Jr)
[QUOTE=RRR3;15031539]PER is barely an advanced stat, look at impact stats. I don’t think I ever said klay was some great defender you are arguing with ghosts as usual.[/QUOTE]
Cool.
So let’s establish Klay Thompson was a mediocre defender who couldn’t dribble and scored 15 ppg on Allen Iverson level efficiency during his first Finals.
And also that Steph Curry has been a net positive defensive player for 8 of the past 10 seasons.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;15031574]Cool.
So let’s establish Klay Thompson was a mediocre defender who couldn’t dribble and scored 15 ppg on Allen Iverson level efficiency during his first Finals.
And also that Steph Curry has been a net positive defensive player for 8 of the past 10 seasons.[/QUOTE]
I rate Steph very highly, top 10 all time for sure, me trolling you about him has you thinking I don’t I guess.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15031575]I rate Steph very highly, top 10 all time for sure, me trolling you about him has you thinking I don’t I guess.[/QUOTE]
Also FYI RAPM is the reasoning the weirdos at RealGM have Kevin Garnett in their top 10 of all time.
So at some point you do have to take it with a bit of salt. It’s a pretty good stat but it’s far from perfect.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15031546]That’s quite a meltdown you had there. But it doesn’t change the fact that Kobe was a poor finals performer and awful in elimination games. Like I said he had the best supporting casts the years he won.
Stats don’t lie.[/QUOTE]
I don’t care what stats say Kobe had a great game 7 win vs Boston. I know you trolls just spam 7/24 or whatever it is because you didn’t even watch it but yeah
[QUOTE=warriorfan;15031580][B]I don’t care what stats say Kobe had a great game 7 win vs Boston. [/B]I know you trolls just spam 7/24 or whatever it is because you didn’t even watch it but yeah[/QUOTE]
Wtf, lol.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15031585]Wtf, lol.[/QUOTE]
Those Kobe standards.
Imagine watching games and not excel spreadsheets.
lol
[QUOTE=RRR3;15031561]Noticed you left out efficiency. Why?[/QUOTE]
Hey genius, nobody cared about efficiency back then. Analytics didn't exist. Teams were just trying to win.
The game was physical. Defense was tough. Spacing didn't exist. It was a lot harder to create "efficient" shots. Teams had specialists but they didn't have balanced scoring SEVEN guys down the roster. The Lakers didn't have a ton of skilled guys outside of Kobe and Gasol. They had RELIABLE guys but not very skilled. D-Fish wasn't skilled. Lamar Odom? Eh... he was a jack of all trades ace of none type. A poor man's Pippen but who might not even be as good as Horace Grant. Horace Grant could at least give you tenacious defense on the other end. Ron Artest? Definitely helps out on defense, definitely gives you an edge, but not someone you could call "skilled". Andrew Bynum?? Big, strong... not really "skilled". Semi skilled maybe. The guys today are surrounded by nothing BUT skilled players. Guys you can't leave open. Guys who could run, pass and shoot. Every single guy on the floor is a threat to score at any given moment. The teams that actually do have great 1 on 1 players are at an extreme advantage.
The fact that you would look at someone who has such a decorated career, a guy who was basically worshiped by his own peers even before he died, a guy who most players and coaches from that era say is one of the best to ever do it... and all you could focus on is "efficiency". And not even real efficiency, "advanced" efficiency. Even though in real time nobody fukking cared because all he did was [B]win[/B].
It's pure brain damage.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;15031580]I don’t care what stats say Kobe had a great game 7 win vs Boston. I know you trolls just spam 7/24 or whatever it is because you didn’t even watch it but yeah[/QUOTE]
6/24