Charles Barkley: Zimmer was right to be acquitted

[QUOTE=ALBballer]This is by far one of the dumbest things I have ever read.[/QUOTE]

I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to say one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]

White people were usually in charge of the most powerful nations throughout the course of history, leading the strongest armies and empires. Obviously during those ages war and massacre was widespread and it was basically a constant battle over land and resources.

So them being the ones that were involved in those terrible acts and injustices isn't a surprise, I just don't understand what the issue is. The biggest bully in the playground is going to be an asshole and will cause lot of damage, doesn't matter if he is white, black or yellow. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to say one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]

Well first he starts by compare historical events that have happened and compared it to black crime in the United States. The argument is completely fallacious and would like be someone including random events in Africa, a few thug members and then use that as some sort of argument against Trayvon Martin.

Second he goes on " you have founded this country on blood and native americans" what this has to do with this thread or black crime I'm not sure. Hell Zimmerman is Half Peruvian and probably of some Amerindian descent. This really holds no importance but I thought I'd include it anyways. Even if we accept this general basis that this country was founded on blood native americans, how is this relevant? Does this excuse black crime in America which I think he was trying to defend?

Next he rambles about white privilege and then complains that he was discriminated in better neighborhoods.

A few historical events and an incoherent argument came out as extremely dumb. He sounds bitter.

In my opinion, there are better explanations. Crime, generally is correlated with wealth. The wealth inequality between whites and blacks in America is huge. Secondly America has one of the highest incarceration rates from the developed world. I read somewhere even higher than communist china. Alot of blacks are affected by this since they are more prone to be incarcerated due to institutionalized racism but even more many blacks are incarcerated for minor things IMO like possession/sale of drugs and IMO these people end up become more prone to criminality when they are put in juvy or jail.

Basically there are much better arguments to be made. He was pmsing and was putting together a bunch of random historical events and trying to belittle white people as if they had no right to speak of crime because they are the master criminals or some shit. A completely fallacious argument....

Don't worry, oh the horror is a moronic racist that thinks white people constitute one large monolithic block that has gone around terrorising humanity since the dawn of time.

He keeps talking about history and yet he seems remarkably ignorant of anything to do with history. If he did he wouldn't be reducing the human RACE into the different races of white, black, yellow, brown and red. He is an idiot, plain and simple. Soon he'll be blaming people with blonde hair and blue eyes for nazism.

Oh the horror, how about you read this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/b/2011/01/29/how-a-genetic-mutation-led-to-the-white-race.htm[/url]

'As I've explained in my "What Is Race?" piece on the Race Relations site, scientists still say that race is more of a social construct than a scientific one because people of the so-called same race have more distinctions in their DNA than people of different races do. In fact, scientists posit that all people are roughly 99.5 percent genetically identical.'

And this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/a/WhatIsRace.htm[/url]

'Race is fluid and thus difficult to pinpoint scientifically. “Race is a concept of human minds, not of nature,” Relethford writes.'

And then this:

[url]http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.88.9.1303[/url]

'The definition and relevance of race and ethnicity are ambiguous. Authors should be particularly careful about using these categories."

'The term Caucasian categorizes populations on the ill-defined basis of a common origin in the distant past in the Caucasus region of Central Europe. Most populations originating in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, for example, are Caucasian. Except as an erroneous euphemism for referring to persons of European descent, the word has little value in race, ethnicity, and health research. Freedman's plea that this term be rejected by science should be accepted.'

And then STFU and stop spouting racist claptrap.

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]

As a white dude, the only issue I had with the post was him saying it's in our [i]nature[/i].

To be honest though, in the Middle Ages and even before, white people were killing each other all the ****ing time. For religious or political reasons. There was no "we're all white so we gotta stick together!" mentality like there is today.

You know what honestly pisses me off about us white people? How we love getting in other people's business. We're going to tell the Afghans and Iraqis how to run their country, live their lives, and practice their religion. We love to tell other people what's wrong in their community -- as if they don't already know what needs to happen when they actually live it!

I'm of the belief that change has to come from within. You know the phrase "the revolution will not be televised"? I originally thought that meant that corporate media wouldn't televise it, or they would lie about what was happening, etc.

But that's not it at all.

The revolution occurs in your mind.

So since my family came to the states about 20 years ago am I responsible for the killing of the native americans or american slavery (even though what was it only 10% of southerners owned slaves?) He is trying to use some ad hominems and white guilt to make his point among other fallacious arguments.

[QUOTE=reppy]
You know what honestly pisses me off about us white people? How we love getting in other people's business. We're going to tell the Afghans and Iraqis how to run their country, live their lives, and practice their religion. We love to tell other people what's wrong in their community -- as if they don't already know what needs to happen when they actually live it!
[/QUOTE]

This is more due to the interests of corporations, military companies, and other factors. Your average person whether white, black, asian whatever should be against such a thing because wars cost money that the government will end up printing which ends up hurting them most from inflation and they don't benefit for these wars and they will end up fighting them (military is majorly made of minorities so they are affected the worst.)

But a person that thinks like oh the horror will spin it to white people love going to war look at iraq, afghanistan etc. Although the current 1/2 black president is using illegal drones to kill people from thousands of miles away. My point is, such things are much more complicated than just race.

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]My post explains why it is wrong.

It is entirely untrue and makes no sense in attributing all those different things to a single race. It is moronic and racist. It is the equivalent of attributing the massacres that have taken place in Africa to American slaves.


[QUOTE=reppy]As a white dude, the only issue I had with the post was him saying it's in our [i]nature[/i].

To be honest though, in the Middle Ages and even before, white people were killing each other all the ****ing time. For religious or political reasons. There was no "we're all white so we gotta stick together!" mentality like there is today.

You know what honestly pisses me off about us white people? How we love getting in other people's business. [B]We're going to tell the Afghans and Iraqis how to run their country, live their lives, and practice their religion. We love to tell other people what's wrong in their community -- as if they don't already know what needs to happen when they actually live it![/B]

I'm of the belief that change has to come from within. You know the phrase "the revolution will not be televised"? I originally thought that meant that corporate media wouldn't televise it, or they would lie about what was happening, etc.

But that's not it at all.

The revolution occurs in your mind.[/QUOTE] This is incredibly stupid and naive. The merits and demerits of those wars aside. The Iraqi people had no choice over what they suffered, and all lived in constant terror with Saddam having an iron-grip on power of which there was zero possibility of removal from within. He ran the kind of society where if your child was being executed the rest of the family had to attend and cheer or be put down also - that type of tyrant does not get thrown out without outside support - it just isn't feasible. Moreover, the US had to interfere on a daily basis for over a decade in Iraq by instituting the no-fly zone over Kurdistan that was preventing the complete genocide of the kurds. This was an entire country under the maniacal control of one psychopathic family, its inhabitants weren't running it in any way.

And in Afghanistan 50% of the population were consigned to live in slavery - what choice did they have? Not much, i assure you.

No one is telling anyone how to practice their religion either, you are just talking absolute nonsense.

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]


The post was delivered purposely destructive because you have to destroy to rebuild in the same place.

Look at life right now. It requires a big shock to collective conscience in order for people to say differently.


9/11 went down and people suddenly started to ask different questions.


Now I'm not claiming to be anything other than another random poster on a message board but the fact remains people don't want to hear most things and other times people just aren't ready to hear it.



No ethnicity is without their own faults. But as one poster said, racism is the biggest conspiracy theory? Come on now.


The days of being polite and tactful about this are over.

[QUOTE=Graviton]White people were usually in charge of the most powerful nations throughout the course of history, leading the strongest armies and empires. Obviously during those ages war and massacre was widespread and it was basically a constant battle over land and resources.

So them being the ones that were involved in those terrible acts and injustices isn't a surprise, I just don't understand what the issue is. The biggest bully in the playground is going to be an asshole and will cause lot of damage, doesn't matter if he is white, black or yellow. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]


I think you have a great point.. I dont disagree that no matter who is the bully they will resort to genocide and all types of atrocities.. I do not agree with his comment that it is white people's "nature" to commit these acts as if white people are different than others and do things that others wouldnt do in their position..


[quote]Well first he starts by compare historical events that have happened and compared it to black crime in the United States. The argument is completely fallacious and would like be someone including random events in Africa, a few thug members and then use that as some sort of argument against Trayvon Martin.

Second he goes on " you have founded this country on blood and native americans" what this has to do with this thread or black crime I'm not sure. Hell Zimmerman is Half Peruvian and probably of some Amerindian descent. This really holds no importance but I thought I'd include it anyways. Even if we accept this general basis that this country was founded on blood native americans, how is this relevant? Does this excuse black crime in America which I think he was trying to defend?

Next he rambles about white privilege and then complains that he was discriminated in better neighborhoods.

A few historical events and an incoherent argument came out as extremely dumb. He sounds bitter.

In my opinion, there are better explanations. Crime for one is correlated with inequality of wealth. The wealth inequality between whites in blacks in America is huge. Secondly America has one of the highest incarceration rates from the developed world. I read somewhere even higher than communist china. Alot of blacks are affected by this since they are more prone to be incarcerated due to institutionalized racism but even more many blacks are incarcanated for minor things IMO like possession/sale of drugs and IMO these people end up become more prone to criminality when they are put in juvy or jail.

Basically there are much better arguments to be made. He was pmsing and was putting together a bunch of random historical events and trying to belittle white people as if they had no right to speak of crime because they are the master criminals or some shit. A completely fallacious argument....[/quote]

I just gonna say I respect your opinion... I agree when you say "[I]wealth inequality between whites in blacks in America is huge. Secondly America has one of the highest incarceration rates from the developed world. I read somewhere even higher than communist china. Alot of blacks are affected by this since they are more prone to be incarcerated due to institutionalized racism but even more many blacks are incarcanated for minor things IMO like possession/sale of drugs and IMO these people end up become more prone to criminality when they are put in juvy or jail."
[/I]

I think that is his point... You are right that he didnt present it well and put people on the defensive


[quote]Don't worry, oh the horror is a moronic racist that thinks white people constitute one large monolithic block that has gone around terrorising humanity since the dawn of time.

He keeps talking about history and yet he seems remarkably ignorant of anything to do with history. If he did he wouldn't be reducing the human RACE into the different races of white, black, yellow, brown and red. He is an idiot, plain and simple. Soon he'll be blaming people with blonde hair and blue eyes for nazism.

Oh the horror, how about you read this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/b/201...white-race.htm[/url]

'As I've explained in my "What Is Race?" piece on the Race Relations site, scientists still say that race is more of a social construct than a scientific one because people of the so-called same race have more distinctions in their DNA than people of different races do. In fact, scientists posit that all people are roughly 99.5 percent genetically identical.'

And this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/od/un...WhatIsRace.htm[/url]

'Race is fluid and thus difficult to pinpoint scientifically.

[QUOTE=ALBballer]This is more due to the interests of corporations, military companies, and other factors. Your average person whether white, black, asian whatever should be against such a thing because wars cost money that the government will end up printing which ends up hurting them most from inflation and they don't benefit for these wars and they will end up fighting them [B](military is majorly made of minorities so they are affected the worst.)[/B]

But a person that thinks like oh the horror will spin it to white people love going to war look at iraq, afghanistan etc. Although the current 1/2 black president is using illegal drones to kill people from thousands of miles away. [B]My point is, such things are much more complicated than just race.[/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.statisticbrain.com/demographics-of-active-duty-u-s-military/[/url]

Are they really?

And you are right there: the world is not made of peace and fluffy bunnies, and the realities force people to make tough choices. Obama has had to renege on his promises as one reality after another has smacked him in the face.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]The post was delivered purposely destructive because you have to destroy to rebuild in the same place.

Look at life right now. It requires a big shock to collective conscience in order for people to say differently.


9/11 went down and people suddenly started to ask different questions.


Now I'm not claiming to be anything other than another random poster on a message board but the fact remains people don't want to hear most things and other times people just aren't ready to hear it.



No ethnicity is without their own faults. But as one poster said, racism is the biggest conspiracy theory? Come on now.


The days of being polite and tactful about this are over.[/QUOTE]


I totally feel where you are coming from with your earlier post... and I am with you 100% on the dismissive attitude of some posters on the board.. Like I said, I think it mostly immature kids who havent even been walking this earth for 30 years and yet they talk like they know it all in absolutes.. and the other part is simply trolls who think its funny to disrespect others and act like a total ass hole on the board..

[QUOTE=oh the horror]The post was delivered purposely destructive because you have to destroy to rebuild in the same place.

Look at life right now. It requires a big shock to collective conscience in order for people to say differently.


9/11 went down and people suddenly started to ask different questions.


Now I'm not claiming to be anything other than another random poster on a message board but the fact remains people don't want to hear most things and other times people just aren't ready to hear it.



[B]No ethnicity is without their own faults. But as one poster said, racism is the biggest conspiracy theory? Come on now.
[/B]

The days of being polite and tactful about this are over.[/QUOTE]
Ethnicities don't have any faults collectively, PEOPLE have faults, what can't you understand about that?

The way you look at race only justifies racists. We should be past racial distinctions by now, but they are just becoming further and further ingrained.

For all the posters who care? I would just like to mention that ultimately we all need each other and we wont get anywhere if we go to war with each other over things like race and differing opinions...

Im trying to keep that in mind just like everyone else... we need to find a way to make these problems work for us instead of against us

[QUOTE=Dresta]Ethnicities don't have any faults collectively, PEOPLE have faults, what can't you understand about that?[/QUOTE]

This.

The black people on ISH are so consumed with race and ethnicity.