2022 off season Post Gobert. A new era begins

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/14/staff-debate-mitchell-trade-better-utah-jazz/[/url]

[QUOTE]Contrary to popular belief, the[URL="https://thejnotes.com/"] Utah Jazz[/URL] did much better when they sent [URL="https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3908809/donovan-mitchell"]Donovan Mitchell[/URL] to the Cleveland Cavaliers than when they sent [URL="https://www.nba.com/player/203497/rudy-gobert"]Rudy Gobert[/URL] to the Timberwolves. Yes, the package of picks the Wolves sent over was astronomical, and the Jazz got a decent cast of role players for Rudy, but the Cavs overpaid out the wazoo for the three-time All-Star.

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it's not even close. The Jazz likely will not get anyone as good as Gobert from the Wolves trade. They already have one guy comparable to Mitchell making 60 million less and two years younger.

[QUOTE]Not only did the Jazz get three picks and two swaps, but they also got more than half of a starting lineup. Lauri Markannen, Ochai Agbaji, and Collin Sexton will all be starters for the Jazz next year, and for several years. All of those players are 25 and below, and they are among the [URL="https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/12/ranking-the-9-players-utah-traded-for-this-summer/"]best new additions[/URL] to the Jazz roster.

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Ochai will start for the Stars anyway

[QUOTE]Agbaji was the 14th overall pick and is the [URL="https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/10/ranking-utah-jazz-rookies-2022-23-season/"]best rookie on the Jazz roster[/URL]. He is a day one starter, as are Markannen and Sexton, who is a fringe All-Star. With their haul of picks, the Jazz should be able to find the next franchise icon in the coming seasons, maybe as soon as next season.

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The Italian is the best rookie. Hard to imagine it otherwise. Fringe all stars! :facepalm

[QUOTE]This is not to say that the Minnesota deal was bad, but come on. Yes, the Jazz got four picks, but are any of the players they added any good? Vanderbilt was a fringe starter last year who couldn’t average double-digit points, Walker Kessler would be really, really good…if this was 1980, and Malik Beasley, Talen Horton-Tucker, and Stanley Johnson were all conciliatory pieces. Don’t even get me started on Leandro Bolmaro, who might not even see the court.

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Kessler might be the next Gobert? Bolmaro should be ahead of your starter until proven otherwise. More pro experience, bigger and younger. Just need to fix his shot

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/13/4-possible-landing-spots-fpr-sharpshooter-bojan-bogdanovic/[/url]

[QUOTE]The [URL="https://thejnotes.com/"]Utah Jazz[/URL] seem set on clearing house, getting younger, and trading away any established players with any sort of value. They did it with Patrick Beverly, and appear to be getting ready to [URL="https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/08/4-teams-show-interest-jazz-sixth-man-jordan-clarkson/"]send Jordan Clarkson to a contender[/URL]. While Clarkson probably has the highest value of anyone on the roster, [URL="https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bogdabo02.html"]Bojan Bogdanovic[/URL] is also drawing some attention around the league.

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Clarkson sucks. Glad I'm the only one that seems to think so!

[QUOTE]With nearly every contending team wanting a piece of Bojan, the Jazz get to pick and chose who they trade with. Despite being 33 years old, Bojan is still in his prime and can provide meaningful minutes and efficient scoring as a secondary option, or he could come off the bench and average big numbers.

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they get to take the best offer. Not much picking and choosing

[QUOTE]Between OG Anunoby and Scottie Barnes, I don’t think Bojan would crack the starting five. That’s okay since Toronto would want him with the second unit anyway.

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he should have been on the bench with the Jazz. It was one of their problems

[QUOTE]This is the first trade I have ever proposed that results in the Jazz losing a pick. By 2025, the Wolves should still be quite good, so this pick will be in the back half of the first round. In return, the Jazz get a 23-year-old who averaged 18.3 points last year as the starting wing for Toronto.

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doubt Danny is giving up a pick to get rid of an expiring contract

[QUOTE]The Jazz end up with Crowder, who would be a one-year rental before he signs with another contender, and Dario Saric, who is 27 but coming off a torn ACL. This would be a gamble for both teams. On one hand, the Suns are giving up a key role player who can do a bit of everything for a pure scorer, and the Jazz are basically trading Bojan for Saric.

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no

[QUOTE]The Lakers get a backup point guard for Patrick Beverly who can shoot and a traditional wing. The Jazz get one year of a horrible contract, two solid picks, and a conciliatory second-rounder this year.

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Conley backing up Beverley!:facepalm

[QUOTE]Take your pick of a young player. I think it’s fair for Utah to get a young player for Bojan, and a supplemental pick for taking Fournier’s awful contract. Detroit will be a fringe lottery team next year, so that gives Utah a pick in the 10-15 range next season, bringing their total to five in the first round of 2023.

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where do you come up with this shit. An expiring contract for 3 years of Fournier! :roll:

[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/14/staff-debate-gobert-trade-better-utah-jazz/[/url]

[QUOTE]The fact that Danny Ainge and the rest of the Utah Jazz front office got the Minnesota Timberwolves to pony up as much as they did is highway robbery and will continue to benefit the team going forward. To be clear, the Utah Jazz got a great haul for Mitchell, but it seems that they may have turned down a better proposal from the New York Knicks to take the Cleveland Cavaliers’ offer.

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The Mitchell trade was always going to be better. They likely won't get the 3rd best player in franchise history fro Gobert. I think they could end up with several players better than Mitchell or at least comparable out of that trade. Already have a couple

[QUOTE]Is Collin Sexton better than RJ Barett in the long term? Maybe not, but he was the centerpiece of the Cavs’ offer, along with, of course, three unprotected future firsts and two pick swaps. Those are valuable assets. However, a team can[URL="https://thejnotes.com/2022/09/09/espn-breaks-just-filthy-rich-utah-jazz-now/"] really only use but so many picks[/URL], and the Jazz got plenty from offloading Gobert.

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they will use them all certainly! :facepalm

[QUOTE]Gobert was also harder to move considering he makes $38 million next season, $8 million more than Mitchell, and he’s 30 whereas Mitchell’s 26. Finding a taker wasn’t a given, especially with how much they’d have to give up to match salaries, but Minnesota was apparently that desperate. I argue that the Mitchell trade was closer to fair value for a three-time All-Star, based on the Dejounte Murray trade from earlier this summer.

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easier to move because he makes the Wolves one of the top teams in the league as he would for almost every franchise. That is the impact that the guy has. We saw it when he was surrounded by guys not even in the league anymore

[QUOTE]Mitchell is better than Murray, and the Jazz received three additional assets as a result. Meanwhile, the Timberwolves hustled backward by overpaying for a player who had less future value. No one believes that Gobert’s best basketball is ahead of him, yet the value that the Jazz received for him seemed to indicate otherwise.

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if the Spurs would have traded the Jazz Murray for Mitchell before Gobert was traded I'd have jumped on it! I'd take him any day. Playing both ends of the court is a thing! Gobert had his best year. He will peak soon. Hasn't happened yet though. Can't wait to see what he does on the most talented team he's been on by far. He won't have to get every rebound. If he leaves the rim he has another 7 footer there not O'Neale. Has a pg that will pass him the ball

[QUOTE]Additionally, who gives up four future first-round picks, two pick swaps, and three valuable or potentially valuable players, anyway? Minnesota already had an All-Star center but acquired Gobert, which ensures that they’ll play an outdated two-big-man lineup for the next few seasons.

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2 of the best. Not just any two bigs

[QUOTE]I'm tired of hearing that jazz turned down a better deal. I remember reading before that the nicks were refusing to give up more than 2 picks in deal didn't want to give up rj Barrett and fact is they pretty much removed him when they signed Barrett to that exstention plus they are paying him twice as much as the jazz are paying Sexton to then throw in what the claim is that they supposedly turned down that kind of deal wouldn't have been possible without the jazz giving up more themselves thanks to that exstention which came before the Cleveland trade. These New York people are claiming they had better deal are just trying to escape criticism they are facing that they messed up. They don't have to prove anything. I sincerely doubt that there offer was that good especially after they signed Barrett to that exstention. There's no reason for Jazz to care about anything other than best deal. Would New York have made better offer sure they do have more picks but Charles Barkley reported he heard New York felt ainge was trying to rip them off demanding too much for Mitchell [/QUOTE]

Knicks, Jazz and Wolves win. Cavs lose even though they should be better this year. They have a ceiling. Small backcourt. A superstar that isn't really one

[url]https://behindthebuckpass.com/2022/09/12/pros-cons-milwaukee-bucks-trading-jordan-clarkson/[/url]

can't imagine there are any pros. The cons are that he sucks!

[QUOTE]It is also not controversial to say that the Bucks could use an upgrade at the backup point guard position after George Hill’s lackluster 2021-22 campaign. Although Clarkson is more of a combo guard and not a traditional point guard like Hill, he would fit the billing as an upgrade. Clarkson is capable of handling the basketball and putting plenty of points on the board off the bench, which would help the Bucks out tremendously.

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Hill is a combo guard and a player. Clarkson sucks!

[QUOTE]Furthermore, the Bucks would also likely have to give up George Hill and Grayson Allen to match Clarkson’s $13.3 million contract for next season. While trading Hill would be reasonable, Allen did just have the best season of his NBA career and has proven to be a perfect fit with the Bucks. Due to his strong play last season, some may be reluctant to include moving Allen, who was a full-time starter for the Bucks until the postseason. The addition of a first round pick in that proposal makes a trade even more questionable.

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don't want either!

[QUOTE]The difficult aspect of any Clarkson trade is trying to decipher an adequate trade package for both sides. The most logical offer would seemingly be Grayson Allen, George Hill, and possibly a second round pick or two, but it might not be that easy. If the Jazz do indeed want a first rounder, that may complicate things. The Bucks are also high on Allen, so they may be reluctant to move him. Could Jordan Nwora somehow fit into this situation? The forward is still a restricted free agent, and as the Jazz look to stock up on young talent, the 24-year-old could be viewed as a desirable piece in a sign-and-trade. However, that is just speculation. If the Bucks can get Clarkson without giving up the farm, they absolutely should pursue the opportunity.

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not sure they need another 24 year old guard at this point!

[url]https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268618/Jazz-Sign-Paris-Bass-To-Exhibit-10-Deal[/url]

A Star!

[QUOTE] Q. Danny Ainge said a couple of days ago, that part of his decision, ultimately, and part of the organization’s decision to rebuild and trade the group was that he saw a team that didn’t believe in each other. DO you agree with them? Donovan Mitchell: Not at all. That’s his assumption after being around for six months, it’s easy to look at things from the outside in and get your own perception on stuff. Despite what the media reports, especially about me and Rudy like this, to be honest, it’s obvious what everybody talks about, granted, we had some differences. But at the end of the day we were the number one pick-and-roll duo for a lot of last year, we were very efficient together on the floor. There was a lot of things that played into it that we just didn’t have success, you know? (…) I wouldn’t say this group didn’t believe each other. (…) [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cavaliers-star-donovan-mitchell-plus-koby-altman-and/id1470466331?i=1000579560651"]I wouldn’t say that we didn’t believe in each other. I don’t think that’s fair after six months[/URL].

– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cavaliers-star-donovan-mitchell-plus-koby-altman-and/id1470466331?i=1000579560651"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]





Donovan Mitchell: When I got traded, you know, we spoke to obviously Koby (Altman), JB (Bickerstaff), everybody from the team. But you know, [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cavaliers-star-donovan-mitchell-plus-koby-altman-and/id1470466331?i=1000579560651"]JB had told me they were going to Nashville, that next Monday, or whatever it was that Thursday, or Friday, or whatever it was. And I said, I’m there[/URL].

– via [URL="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cavaliers-star-donovan-mitchell-plus-koby-altman-and/id1470466331?i=1000579560651"]Apple Podcasts[/URL]







New Cleveland Cavalier [URL="https://www.talkbasket.net/150483-donovan-mitchell-im-forever-grateful-for-ricky-rubio"]Donovan Mitchell says he’s super excited to be reunited with former Utah Jazz teammate Ricky Rubio[/URL]. (Via Cleveland Cavaliers): “He really helped me lock in on the little details as far as my work, as far as my craft, as far as the possession game. Just being able to watch him lead our team from the point guard position and allowing me to kinda take the reins as a young guy, which I didn’t even expect coming into the league and just kinda teaching me the little things throughout the game. I’m forever grateful for Ricky Rubio, and to be back here with him, he’s a little bit older now, but he’s still the lighthearted fun guy that I’ve always known. I’ve gone to Spain to see him and hung out with him. So to be back here with him is truly special.”

– via [URL="https://www.talkbasket.net/150483-donovan-mitchell-im-forever-grateful-for-ricky-rubio"]Paul Terrazzano Jr. @ TalkBasket[/URL]







Stefan Bondy: There are different views about how the league views RJ Barrett. My understanding is [URL="https://*********.com/lists/knicks-rumors-donovan-mitchell-rj-barrett-jalen-brunson-julius-randle-more/"]the Jazz valued the contract that they got with Collin Sexton more than what they would’ve had to pay Barrett.[/URL] That was an important part of the trade negotiations.
– via [URL="https://*********.com/lists/knicks-rumors-donovan-mitchell-rj-barrett-jalen-brunson-julius-randle-more/"]Michael Scotto @ *********[/URL]


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well duh. You got a guy that could be as good or better than Mitchell for 60 million less than Mitchell or Barrett makes and he's two years younger than Mitchell

The Boston [URL="https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268623/Celtics-Sign-Justin-Jackson-Jake-Layman-Denzel-Valentine"]Celtics have signed Justin Jackson, Jake Layman and Denzel Valentine.[/URL] All three are expected to have signed non-guaranteed, training camp contracts. Jackson appeared in seven NBA games between the Celtics and Phoenix Suns last season. Jackson also played in 28 games for the Texas Legends of the G League. Jackson averaged 22.2 points, 6.7 rebounds and 3.4 assists for the Legends.
– via [URL="https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268623/Celtics-Sign-Justin-Jackson-Jake-Layman-Denzel-Valentine"]RealGM[/URL]

[URL="https://basketnews.com/news-178021-rudy-gobert-the-goal-is-a-gold-medal-and-only-that-will-satisfy-me.html"]Rudy Gobert is not leaving Berlin without a gold medal around his neck. “I’m here to win,” Gobert was straightforward, per Mozzart Sport. “The goal is a gold medal, and only that will satisfy me[/URL]. “I will try to be even better in order to achieve that goal. I believe that this team has enough quality to be the best in Europe. We have to beat Poland and then one more. After that, I will be happy,” said the new Minnesota Timberwolves player.
– via [URL="https://basketnews.com/news-178021-rudy-gobert-the-goal-is-a-gold-medal-and-only-that-will-satisfy-me.html"]BasketNews[/URL]





He delivered when it mattered the most. In the Round of 16 and the quarterfinal stage, Gobert averaged 19.5 points, 15.5 rebounds, and 24.0 EFF. [URL="https://basketnews.com/news-178021-rudy-gobert-the-goal-is-a-gold-medal-and-only-that-will-satisfy-me.html"]“We have to continue to do well and above all, to believe in ourselves. I have the impression that we are improving from game to game. We knew that as a young team we would make some mistakes. The beauty of it – we can learn a lot from all of this, and it can be seen that we are doing just that,” the French center pointed out[/URL].
– via [URL="https://basketnews.com/news-178021-rudy-gobert-the-goal-is-a-gold-medal-and-only-that-will-satisfy-me.html"]BasketNews[/URL]

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/15/23355466/jeff-hornacek-is-returning-to-the-utah-jazz-as-coaching-staff-is-finalized[/url]

[QUOTE]Hornacek played for the Jazz from 1994-2000 and was an assistant from 2011-2013. After that, he was head coach of the Phoenix Suns (2013-2016) and New York Knicks (2016-2018) and an assistant with the Houston Rockets (2020-2022).

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He was helping AK at least before he was an assistant if I remember correctly

much smaller staff than COTM I believe. Horny might be the guy to help Bolmaro, Butler etc. with their shot

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/15/23355221/woj-pod-donovan-mitchell-utah-jazz-danny-ainge-cleveland-cavaliers[/url]

[QUOTE]Mitchell said the 8-second violation he committed toward the end of Game 1 of the Jazz’s 2020 playoff series against the Denver Nuggets still eats at him. The Jazz took Games 2, 3 and 4 before losing the next three games and the series, and he wonders what might have happened had they won Game 1.

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should eat at you. Boneheaded!

[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/15/23354722/utah-jazz-eurobasket-lauri-markkanen-simone-fontecchio-bojan-bogdanovic[/url]

[QUOTE]“He’s really coming into his own,” [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0DstQ7DXk8&t=133s"]Jazz CEO Danny Ainge said earlier this week[/URL]. “We’re seeing things in him, grabbing rebounds and going coast-to-coast with the dribble. Those are things you haven’t really seen out of Lauri yet, and so we’re excited about his future.”

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he'll have the chance to showcase it this year at least until the trade deadline

[url]https://kslsports.com/492636/jeff-hornacek-rejoins-jazz-staff-with-will-hardy/[/url]

[QUOTE]This is Hornacek’s third stint in a coaching role with the Jazz after serving as a shooting advisor for Andrei Kirilenko in 2007 before being named an assistant coach on Tyrone Corbin’s staff between 2011-13.

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there it is

[URL="http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2z7bculb"]https://factoryofsadness.co/2022/09/14/the-cleveland-cavaliers-should-call-the-utah-jazz-back/

don't want LaVert


http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2z7bculb[/URL]

Horny probably picked two of the worst teams at the time to coach with the Knicks and Suns, but definitely can't hurt to have a guy on staff who's done the top job when you've got a rookie head coach.

Bogey out for Lee and Olynyk from Detroit. They apparently wanted a vet C and to clear up the forward logjam. Guess they rate Lee somewhat too to take him in too. Surprised by no draft picks and adds another player to the roster, so another one to cut too.

[QUOTE=El Kabong;14662482]Horny probably picked two of the worst teams at the time to coach with the Knicks and Suns, but definitely can't hurt to have a guy on staff who's done the top job when you've got a rookie head coach.[/QUOTE]

good hire. He did a great job the first year with the Suns. Going to NY and agreeing to run the triangle certainly was not a good move

[QUOTE=El Kabong;14662482]Horny probably picked two of the worst teams at the time to coach with the Knicks and Suns, but definitely can't hurt to have a guy on staff who's done the top job when you've got a rookie head coach.[/QUOTE]

They needed a vet but they just signed Zeller. I'd rather have someone younger. Lee was dominating in 7 Gleague games so he might have a chance if he can get on the floor with Clarkson, Donley and Gay still around. Didn't want any long term money. Got a nice trade exception and under the tax

Biggest heist in sports history.

Wolves will never recover from it.

[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14684247]Biggest heist in sports history.

Wolves will never recover from it.[/QUOTE]

not sure you'll recover