Charles Barkley: Zimmer was right to be acquitted

[QUOTE=oh the horror]Frankly I couldnt care less what you have to say dude. Or anyone one of you for that matter.


History is what it is. And still continues on.


Sarcasm isn't saving anyone.[/QUOTE]
attributing past crimes done by white people to white people today that have absolutely nothing to do with any of those things is completely stupid and on top of that it doesn't make any sense at all because you completely ignored historical and cultural context. you've been vehemently preaching against racism and racial profiling, how can you possibly not see that you're literally doing the exact same thing? by saying murderous/evil traits are in our "nature" you're applying a blanket rule to every single person who happens to be a certain color. that is absolutely what racial profiling is. you're moving backwards and nothing you're saying is helping. it really is thoughts like yours that cause race relations to deteriorate and it's a sad train of thought

here's a fact: a black american is 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white person than vice versa. you won't see me going around and saying "oh, well that must mean it must be in a black person's nature to want be violent" because that's stupid and unfair

[QUOTE=Dresta][b]Ethnicities don't have any faults collectively, PEOPLE have faults, what can't you understand about that?[/b]

The way you look at race only justifies racists. We should be past racial distinctions by now, but they are just becoming further and further ingrained.[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY

[QUOTE=Quizno]attributing past crimes done by white people to white people today that have absolutely nothing to do with any of those things is completely stupid and on top of that it doesn't make any sense at all because you completely ignored historical and cultural context. you've been vehemently preaching against racism and racial profiling, how can you possibly not see that you're literally doing the exact same thing? by saying murderous/evil traits are in "nature" you're applying a blanket rule to every single person who happens to be a certain color. that is absolutely what racial profiling is. you're moving backwards and nothing you're saying is helping. it really is thoughts like yours that cause race relations to deteriorate and it's a sad train of thought

here's a fact: a black american is 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white person than vice versa. you won't see me going around and saying "oh, well that must mean it must be in a black person's nature to want be violent" because that's stupid and unfair[/QUOTE]


the problem is that you are preaching to the guy who feels attacked.. he isnt going to listen to that type of communication


The better path is to say .. "Hey I dont believe black people are naturally violent... I believe we have more in common than anything different"

I think "oh the horror" is doing what most of the posters on here are doing..

reacting to posts that offend them.. and the offenses are just escalating..

I think we all will be better served when we can talk about how we can work together ....


I feel where he is coming from... but I also can relate to the anger of a white person who sees his posts and says "hold up!! thats not me!! and thats not a fair assesment"

Im going to try to reach out to all poster who arent immature trolls and Im going to try and bridge a gap so we can understand each other better and get a feel for where we can relate to one another

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]the problem is that you are preaching to the guy who feels attacked.. he isnt going to listen to that type of communication


The better path is to say .. "Hey I dont believe black people are naturally violent... I believe we have more in common than anything different"

I think "oh the horror" is doing what most of the posters on here are doing..

reacting to posts that offend them.. and the offenses are just escalating..

I think we all will be better served when we can talk about how we can work together ....


I feel where he is coming from... but I also can relate to the anger of a white person who sees his posts and says "hold up!! thats not me!! and thats not a fair assesment"

Im going to try to reach out to all poster who arent immature trolls and Im going to try and bridge a gap so we can understand each other better and get a feel for where we can relate to one another[/QUOTE]
yeah, the responses are getting really out of hand. when i see someone say that because some europeans went on a religious crusade and murdered hundreds and thousands of people in an act of declared war and thus all white americans are evil by nature i feel compelled to respond. people are just so quick to attribute one person's mistake to an entire group of people because it's easy to do that, but that just promotes fear and hatred

edit: but rasheed i saw your post saying you don't think it's untrue. you really can't see why that post has logical fallacies? it's like saying that because blacks drop out of high school at a higher rate than any other race then that must mean it's in black people's nature to be incapable of completing a high school education. it's the exact same line of thinking. you don't see how that's a logical fallacy?

Someone brought up drug incarceration and it just made me think of Obama and what a joke the guy is.

If he really cared about African-Americans he would take steps towards ending the thing that is most oppressing them (the barbaric drug war) rather than uttering populist tripe like 'i could have been Trayvon Martin' without actually doing anything about anything. He is such a tool.

But no: the police and prison industry are far too dependant on the drug war, and their lobbies are too big and powerful to risk upsetting. No one seems to care about all the young lives it ruins. Meanwhile Al Sharpton is going around getting everyone riled up about something completely pointless.

I really feel bad for African Americans, i really do: they are just getting ****ed in so many ways, and even by people that are supposed to be their own representatives and community leaders. Suppose this mass of media time were actually used in a campaign to show how they are kept down by the drug war?

But noooo, let's spend countless hours focusing on a slightly ambiguous self-defense case! It's a ****ing joke.

edit: how can something still be being perpetuated that was mostly initiated by Nixon (a flagrant racist) who remarked in private about the drug war something like 'it is about targeting the blacks without seeming to do so.'?

And it isn't like only white people support the drug war, it is undoubtedly the majority of all ethnic groups - because they have all been brainwashed through fear and propaganda.

The drug war and denial of euthanasia are definitely the two great moral failings of our time: both completely disgraceful.

I still can't believe this is a story even worth bringing up, It should have never made headlines in the first place, you got two cowards, one coward gets jumped kills the other resulting in one less idiot on the planet and the other idiots life being ruined.

[QUOTE=Quizno]

edit: but rasheed i saw your post saying you don't think it's untrue. you really can't see why that post has logical fallacies? it's like saying that because blacks drop out of high school at a higher rate than any other race then that must mean it's in black people's nature to be incapable of completing a high school education. it's the exact same line of thinking. you don't see how that's a logical fallacy?[/QUOTE]


I dont disagree with his post as it pertains to the violent history of caucasians.. but like I said in response to reppy's post.. i dont believe that white people are more predisposed to violence than any other group.. i dont believe it is in their nature any more than any other group of human beings... I believe that black folks would do alot of same things if they had the power and motive to do it.. I think the issue is [B]power [/B] and [B]arrogance[/B] more than some kind of racial predisposition

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I dont disagree with his post as it pertains to the [B]violent history of caucasians.[/B]. but like I said in response to reppy's post.. i dont believe that white people are more predisposed to violence than any other group.. i dont believe it is in their nature any more than any other group of human beings... I believe that black folks would do alot of same things if they had the power and motive to do it.. I think the issue is [B]power [/B] and [B]arrogance[/B] more than some kind of racial predisposition[/QUOTE]
Great, because i'm white, but i'm Slavic - does that make me exempt?

:biggums:

[QUOTE=Rasheed1][b]I dont disagree with his post as it pertains to the violent history of caucasians[/b].. but like I said in response to reppy's post.. i dont believe that white people are more predisposed to violence than any other group.. i dont believe it is in their nature any more than any other group of human beings... I believe that black folks would do alot of same things if they had the power and motive to do it.. I think the issue is [B]power [/B] and [B]arrogance[/B] more than some kind of racial predisposition[/QUOTE]
nobody disagrees with that; it's history. it's documented and there's no room to disagree with the historical validity of what he said. but that wasn't the point of his post. he clearly stated that it's in white people's "nature" to be violent/evil (he didn't [b]specifically[/b] say that but based off of the context it's clearly what he meant to say) and then you said you didn't disagree with it. i'm glad you clarified though, because he was saying that white people are predisposed to committing violent crimes and modern whites are inherently evil due to some ancient actions of some people who shared their skin tone

which, by the way, is an extremely racist thing to say and i don't think it's something you'd agree with, which is a relief to me

[QUOTE=Dresta]Great, because i'm white, but i'm Slavic - does that make me exempt?

:biggums:[/QUOTE]


You'll have to excuse my ignorance on that question...

I guess it means "caucasian" means whatever we think it means or doesnt mean (I dont know and I dont think it matters :oldlol: )

I just think we all have to start looking to see each other's point of view so we can see where each of us are similar to each other instead of different from the other..

then we'll have an easier time working together

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]For all the posters who care? I would just like to mention that ultimately we all need each other and we wont get anywhere if we go to war with each other over things like race and differing opinions...

Im trying to keep that in mind just like everyone else... we need to find a way to make these problems work for us instead of against us[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=Dresta]Great, because i'm white, but i'm Slavic - does that make me exempt?

:biggums:[/QUOTE]

Well in America race/ethnicity/culture is all blurred. Hitler might not have considered you untermensch but according to people like oh the horror you were descended of british slave owners and related to timothy mcveigh.

how does that saying go, it's all greek to me?

:D

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]You'll have to excuse my ignorance on that question...

I guess it means "caucasian" means whatever we think it means or doesnt mean (I dont know and I dont think it matters :oldlol: )

I just think we all have to start looking to see each other's point of view so we can see where each of us are similar to each other instead of different from the other..

then we'll have an easier time working together[/QUOTE]
Thing is it is adults and their own neurosis that perpetuate this problem. I remember my primary school (Ages 5-11) in London, and it was so diverse ethnically that i don't remember a single question or comment about skin colour ever coming up. People just had varying skin tones - that was it, and it was normal. Then once you get into your teens and grow up a bit you start getting signals from the adult world and its constant obsession with race, and this affects people subconsciously, and undoubtedly leads to far more racist sentiment than it eliminates.

You get people throwing around the racist card so frivolously that these distinctions become imprinted on the mind (it is now apparently racist to have a problem with someone's religion) that people that would never have otherwise had a racist thought start to think about these things. That's why i think the best way to get rid of racism is to lose the distinctions, integrate and diversify communities, and then stop spreading the neuroses of the adult world to children. It won't go away until people stop obsessing over it (and i often feel that white people that get all hyper-sensitive over race issues are overcompensating for their own deeply hidden prejudices).

Everyone should have equality before the law, after that it is up to time to change people's sentiments. It will take a generation to have grown up with it being the norm before things change, but we are hindering that by sending race problems down the generations. I just don't think it helps, at all.

[QUOTE=Dresta]Thing is it is adults and their own neurosis that perpetuate this problem. I remember my primary school (Ages 5-11) in London, and it was so diverse ethnically that i don't remember a single question or comment about skin colour ever coming up. People just had varying skin tones - that was it, and it was normal. Then once you get into your teens and grow up a bit you start getting signals from the adult world and its constant obsession with race, and this affects people subconsciously, and undoubtedly leads to far more racist sentiment than it eliminates.

You get people throwing around the racist card so frivolously that these distinctions become imprinted on the mind (it is now apparently racist to have a problem with someone's religion) that people that would never have otherwise had a racist thought start to think about these things. That's why i think the best way to get rid of racism is to lose the distinctions, integrate and diversify communities, and then stop spreading the neuroses of the adult world to children. It won't go away until people stop obsessing over it (and i often feel that white people that get all hyper-sensitive over race issues are overcompensating for their own deeply hidden prejudices).

Everyone should have equality before the law, after that it is up to time to change people's sentiments. It will take a generation to have grown up with it being the norm before things change, but we are hindering that by sending race problems down the generations. I just don't think it helps, at all.[/QUOTE]


I cant disagree with any of that..

The problem is that America is poisoned by this issue and many people see things thru this lens, so even if it isnt real? it becomes real because so many people have experiences that are related to race..

We have to find a way to break free of that.. I think people's ethnicities are beautiful and something that everyone can share in and gain knowledge from... But race as it exists in America is about stereotypes and "us against them" and it has very negative connotations at this time.

I think we can break free of it if it doesnt destroy us first

I was just reminded of this story.

[url]http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html[/url]

It's a good read. Might creep you out a little, but in a good way.