The more I watch Lebron the more I am starting to think he's better than MJ

[QUOTE=Solefade]wade's last healthy year was 2011 and they didn't win because wade wasn't good enough to carry them over the hump and because lebron choked, but the point is bron's been winning with minimal help in 2012 and 2013[/QUOTE]
Then why make the feeble attempt to compare James impact to Jordan? Cuz that's what you've been doing.

MJ = The GOAT. LBJ = 2nd GOAT

[QUOTE=Solefade]wade's last healthy year was 2011 and they didn't win because wade wasn't good enough to carry them over the hump and because lebron choked, but the point is bron's been winning with minimal help in 2012 and 2013[/QUOTE]

Wade provided better help in the 2012 and 2013 finals than Lebron did in 2011. Wade had a good, not spectacular, 2011 finals. If Lebron had even played to 1/4 of his ability, Heat win that series.

[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar][IMG]http://oem.readyphiladelphia.org/Customized/uploads/Photos/AAmanBlindCane2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:applause:

:biggums: @ OP.

It's hard for me to really compare the two since they are so different. You would probably make better comparisons between Bron and Magic...although Bron is a more scoring focused. If you REALLY want to make a comparison, gogo Bron and Elgin Baylor. Very similar games and similar careers (up till recently). Either way, Bron is definitely a top10 player ever and will most likely end in top5 or higher.

lebron has higher impact individually but jordan can fit with other players. Jordan makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts. Its the reason why lebron only has +/-2.8 when paired with stars while kobe has a +10 in the playoffs. Its the reason why robertson was a cancer despite the assists while jordan won 72, 69 despite averaging less assists in his career.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Then why make the feeble attempt to compare James impact to Jordan? Cuz that's what you've been doing.[/QUOTE]


i wasn't comparing the impact of james to jordan, i was just addressing you comparing bosh to dennis rodman a 16rbpg player to chris bosh..jordan and pippen would slap you if they heard that

[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar][IMG]http://oem.readyphiladelphia.org/Customized/uploads/Photos/AAmanBlindCane2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

that's a good pic for threads cuz you have to scroll down until you see he's blind. Or I did.


LeBron isn't even that good. lol I keep sayin' it and people are like WAT. I mean he's good, but he's just not on that all-time greatest level. He's gonna have a resume, but in terms of actual talent, I dunno how people can say Bron is the GOAT. Some sad shit.


-Smak

[QUOTE=97 bulls]People were applying similar logic to Kobe Bryant. He had three championships by the time he was 22.[/QUOTE]

True. You simply cannot pencil in championships and MVP's for any player. Luck and injuries are factors in achieving accolades. While it is true Lebron is close to Jordan thus far (also, Lebron has 6 ECF's if he gets there this year to MJ's 5 and Lebron would have had the best record in the NBA 3 times while MJ would have it only 1 time). Moreover, Jordan did in fact win championships at ages 32, 33, 34 while adding 2 more championships and 3 all-NBA first teams. There is no guarantee Lebron will have that kind of success when he is 32-34. What we know is, barring injury, Lebron will add to his legacy over the next two seasons when he will be 30-31 years old while MJ did nothing to aid his cause during the same period in his career.

The thing that has always struck me about Lebron is you could put him with scrubs and he would make them contenders. Jordan was not able to do that. Jordan was scoring 37 points a game--while going 40-42. Lebron reached the Finals at 22 and his teams have been contenders every year since then (perhaps not 2008, but even then the Cavs took the peak KG-Pierce-Allen Celtics to 7 games in the ECSF).

[QUOTE]lebron has higher impact individually but jordan can fit with other players. Jordan makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts. [/QUOTE]

What evidence is there of that? Lebron has succeeded with a wide variety of players. Jordan basically had two cores when he succeeded. Moreover, Jordan retired and about half the team had a career year in 94' and the players who were on both the 1993 and 1994 teams shot better in 94' than they did in 93'. What happened to Cavalier players when Lebron left?

Lebron is another level.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]

The thing that has always struck me about Lebron is you could put him with scrubs and he would make them contenders. Jordan was not able to do that. Jordan was scoring 37 points a game--while going 40-42. Lebron reached the Finals at 22 and his teams have been contenders every year since then (perhaps not 2008, but even then the Cavs took the peak KG-Pierce-Allen Celtics to 7 games in the ECSF).



What evidence is there of that? Lebron has succeeded with a wide variety of players. Jordan basically had two cores when he succeeded. Moreover, Jordan retired and about half the team had a career year in 94'. What happened to Cavalier players when Lebron left?[/QUOTE]




This is why people's view on Lebron annoys me. Some of you literally ignore reality at time and create a scenario for Lebron James.



Lebron alone did not leave the Cavs. Let's get that straight. When he left they were damn near almost a different team. They lost MULITPLE players. SO anything we discuss regarding how good/bad they would have been without JUST Lebron is speculation.



Secondly, when we compare Lebron + "scrubs" and Jordan + "scrubs" you have to factor in competition at that time around them and who were their actual team mates as well.


It isn't just cut and dry as "well Lebron could take scrubs and make them contenders and Jordan couldn't". That's not how the argument works at all.



Throw Lebron on this years Sixers or Bucks. They are not contenders.

[QUOTE=Solefade]i wasn't comparing the impact of james to jordan, i was just addressing you comparing bosh to dennis rodman a 16rbpg player to chris bosh..jordan and pippen would slap you if they heard that[/QUOTE]
I feel Rodman is a more impactful player than Bosh. But Bosh is a great player

My point is, why are you and yoir brethren circling your argument on impact around what the Cavs did when James left as opposed to what the Bulls did when Jordan left? When the fact is the situations were totally different. And then overlook what happened when James joined the Heat and their win/loss difference and when Jordan returned to the Bulls and their win/loss results.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]True. You simply cannot pencil in championships and MVP's for any player. Luck and injuries are factors in achieving accolades. While it is true Lebron is close to Jordan thus far (also, Lebron has 6 ECF's if he gets there this year to MJ's 5 and Lebron would have had the best record in the NBA 3 times while MJ would have it only 1 time). Moreover, Jordan did in fact win championships at ages 32, 33, 34 while adding 2 more championships and 3 all-NBA first teams. There is no guarantee Lebron will have that kind of success when he is 32-34. What we know is, barring injury, Lebron will add to his legacy over the next two seasons when he will be 30-31 years old while MJ did nothing to aid his cause during the same period in his career.

The thing that has always struck me about Lebron is you could put him with scrubs and he would make them contenders. Jordan was not able to do that. Jordan was scoring 37 points a game--while going 40-42. Lebron reached the Finals at 22 and his teams have been contenders every year since then (perhaps not 2008, but even then the Cavs took the peak KG-Pierce-Allen Celtics to 7 games in the ECSF).



What evidence is there of that? Lebron has succeeded with a wide variety of players. Jordan basically had two cores when he succeeded. Moreover, Jordan retired and about half the team had a career year in 94' and the players who were on both the 1993 and 1994 teams shot better in 94' than they did in 93'. What happened to Cavalier players when Lebron left?[/QUOTE]

Because of lebrons +/- 2.8 in the playoffs when paired with stars. because robertson, iverson were considered cancers despite their stats. surround jordan with talent and his team will be more dominant than bron with same talent. Even those bulls which has less talent would destroy this heat team. Jordan requires less to win while bron was a ray allen away from being a failure.

And we have no idea how good that cavs team because they were given assurance of the no. 1 pick

[QUOTE]surround jordan with talent and his team will be more dominant than bron with same talent.[/QUOTE]

I think that is true. Other than last year, none of Lebron's teams have been dominant. Still, I think it also is equally true that Lebron with average or poor talent would fare better than Jordan in the same situation. Can anyone envision prime Lebron going 40-42? One problem with Jordan was he would tend to bail on his teammates and become a one man show. It is not a coincidence the Bulls started winning when a pass-first player became the primary ball-handler, a player who made sure to keep everyone involved and would not cut people off for the rest of the game for dropping a pass or missing a shot.

[QUOTE]Secondly, when we compare Lebron + "scrubs" and Jordan + "scrubs" you have to factor in competition at that time around them and who were their actual team mates as well. [/QUOTE]

That is a fair point. In terms of team strength there was more competition in the 80's, at least at the top (remember, the Bulls made the playoffs as a 30 win team in one season :oldlol: ). However, there was no international presence in the league at the time. In the modern NBA you have to compete with the best players in the world, not just the best American players. The talent pool is deeper now than ever before since it is drawing from a global pool. It is interesting to see the 2011 Finals invoked here but that would not have happened in the 80's because Dirk would have been playing in some unknown European league, not in the NBA. (Yeah, there were a handful of international players like Hakeem and Petrovic but now something like 20-25% of the league is from overseas)

[QUOTE]Throw Lebron on this years Sixers or Bucks. They are not contenders.[/QUOTE]

I think they are. They wouldn't be favorites but Lebron would have them competitive. Who did he have while in Cleveland? Yet he was able to have the best record twice with them and reach the Finals another time.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]



Throw Lebron on this years Sixers or Bucks. They are not contenders.[/QUOTE]


lol lebron makes any team a contender tbh being favorites to win is a different conversation.