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[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Where would you rank him?
How does he fit in among:
Sikma
Mutombo
Johnston
Beaty
Laimbeer
Issel
Daugherty
Yao
Mourning
Daniels
Lanier
just better or worse if you like...[/QUOTE]
Mutombo Issel Mourning Daniels and Lanier definitely over Bellamy.
Beaty I wanna say they are dead even.
Sikma Laimbeer Brad D and Yao gotta think on those. Though I wanna say he's over Yao and Brad.
GOAT, where would you rank these player ... assuming they didn't make it inside your top 120?
Willie Naulls
Wayne Embry
Guy Rodgers
Larry Costello
Dick Barnett
Don Ohl
Van Arsdale twins
Calvin Murphy
Rudy T.
Randy Smith
World B. Free
Reggie Theus
Jeff Rulland
Kiki Vandeweghe
Fat Lever
Alvin Robertson
Terry Porter
Otis Thorpe
Charles Oakley
Mark Jackson
Dan Majerle
Allan Houston
Jamal Mashburn
Steve Francis
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[SIZE="4"][B][FONT="Book Antiqua"]#120 Zelmo Beaty Jr.
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[b]Vitals:[/b] 6
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]GOAT, where would you rank these player ... assuming they didn't make it inside your top 120?[/quote]
Willie Naulls (284)
Wayne Embry (220)
Guy Rodgers (240)
Larry Costello (274)
Dick Barnett (300)
Don Ohl (313)
Van Arsdale twins (328 &329, Dick first)
Calvin Murphy (242)
Rudy T. (214, second player out)
Randy Smith (269)
World B. Free (270)
Reggie Theus (273)
Jeff Rulland (289)
Kiki Vandeweghe (267)
Fat Lever (216, almost made the list)
Alvin Robertson (245)
Terry Porter (222)
Otis Thorpe (223)
Charles Oakley (225) -that was a pretty impressive run there.
Mark Jackson (234)
Dan Majerle (295)
Allan Houston (238)
Jamal Mashburn (239)
Steve Francis (213, first player out)
Also nice work on the Beaty. Bellamy neck and neck conclusion. I think they are about as even as it gets.
A few others with Houston ties...
Robert Horry #251
Eddie Johnson #325, still love that top of the key three to win versus Utah.
Kenny Smith #334
Kevin Willis #372
Sleepy Floyd #373
John Lucas #379
Shane Battier #380
Mario Elie #451-#489
Robert Reid #451-#489
Vernon Maxwell #490-#522
Don Cheany #523-#571
Cuttino Mobley #523-#571
Mike Newlin #523-#571
Stu Lantz #523-#571
What gets Bellamy so high on list (still can't figure out his #35 ranking in SLAM in 2003) is his sexy numbers his first four seasons. 28/17 is damn sexy (his 32/19 as a rookie is still 2nd all time behind Wilts 38/27.) But after he's down to about 16/11 which is around Zelmo Beaty career avg.
Speaking of Wilt, I think his battles with Wilt showed that he wasn't anywhere near his lever. In his first games, Wilt said he wouldn't let him score in the first half and that's just what he did, Wilt blocked his shot 9 times that half. As the second half started, Wilt than said "now, you can score." Wilt also dropped most of his high scoring games on Bellamy.
Wilt 73 and 36 vs Bellamy. Wilt dropped at least five 60+ point games on Bellamy. He also used to dominate him at the Rucker Park Tournaments in Harlem.
Very good topic GOAT. I really like this stuff. Some of the few worthwhile posts that actually happen on this forum.
I don't post much anymore but when I did I was pretty into doing the Peak NBA drafts. I was a lot younger then (only 23 now) and didn't have nearly as much knowledge of basketball history and players as I do now.
Your topic reminded me of them. I would start one myself but I have my doubts that people would join if I started one, but I believe is a poster like you, kizzle or fplii who has a much bigger cache of respect it would take off.
Your current list seems to be a little more geared towards a players legacy while a peak draft is more about skill so while it is a kinda similar theme it has its own set of criteria and tests a posters ability to properly assess talent, chemistry, and overall fit of a team.
I would really enjoy if someone were to create the topic and if we got some legit posters to be involved in it and I think it would be a good way to discuss the xs and os of a team and a general idea of a teams construction.
I think there should be 10 players and 10 rounds. We choose 9 players and 1 coach. When the draft is done there are two options to choose a winner. We can either all make a post explaining why our team is the best and then a vote off happens with the active participants. No one can vote for themselves. They vote for three people and the number 1 vote gets 3 points, 2nd place 2 and 3rd place 1. Highest score wins and in the event of a tie we have a second round of voting.
The other option is we have a "play-in round" that leads to a playoffs. The voting happens in a similar manner for the play in round and the 8 highest vote getters join the playoff bracket. (with the highest vote getter on one side of the bracket and the lowest as the 4 seed on the same side, 2nd highest as the # 1 on the other side of the bracket and the 2nd lowest vote getter as the 4 seed on the other side. In the event of a 2 or 3 way tie the player with the most 1st place votes gets the higher side). Once the bracket has been set we have the playoffs where the high seed posts why he think his team would beat the low seed and then the low seed counters and then the high seed gets a 2nd counter (the high seed gets 2 times to argue there case as a way to simulate home court advantage and to reward someone for quality drafting).
As far as the rules that we play the game under I think it should be a mix of modern and oldschool. We bring handchecking back. We remove the 5 second back to the basket rule and possibly remove the 3 second rule (Im leery of bringing it back because I feel it would start to put the balance of power a little more towards post players and it would also hinder the effectiveness of dribble drive players).
I want to get a gauge from posters to see if there willing to participate. I truthfully really want to do it and I know kizzle used to always play when we were doing it so I hope he would be interested. If no one else wants to create the topic and be the comish I will
Seeding for drafting will be done by a random number generator. You get assigned a number based off spot you signed up for the draft (so the 7th person would be the 7th number in the number generator).
Anyone who has an interest in doing this please reply to this post (I don't log into my account often so I wont notice a pm immediately)
I hope to generate interest.
Sorry for the double post.
I also think we could do the draft in two ways. Just a general all of NBA, ABA, Older league and Euroleauge draft.
The second way would be to do it by decades, which is how we did it the first time. It was something to the effect of peaks 200s draft, peak 90's draft etc....
People who are interested should voice what type they want to do. We could do one for each decade back to the 70s or 60s (depending on how many people feel they have enough player knowledge to go that far back. I think that after the 70s I would be a little hard pressed and even the 70s is kinda pushing it)
If we do the decades version we should then do an alltime version to cap it off but doing a decades version would require a longer time commitment then a just a one off alltime version
Hey G.O.A.T, have you ever done a top 10 GOAT streetballers list?
I don't want to pester you fpliii. I just sent you a pm. IDK if ur box is full. Would you please read my previous posts and if your interested help me promote the draft idea I have. I think there pretty fun and worthwhile discussions. As I said in my pm I would send you a link to a previous draft to give you an idea of how they work.
I also pmed GOAT and kizzle and would truthfully appreciate a reply, even if it was a "Nahh I'm good on dat bruh"
[QUOTE=Rizko]I don't want to pester you fpliii. I just sent you a pm. IDK if ur box is full. Would you please read my post and if your interested help me promote the draft idea I have. I think there pretty fun and worthwhile discussions. As I said in my pm I would send you a link to a previous draft to give you an idea of how they work.[/QUOTE]
No worries, I replied.
As I said, I'm not sure how of much value I'd be since my knowledge of the 70s/80s is very, very limited (only started watching in the early 90s, and most of the research I've done is of the late 50s-early 70s), but it sounds like a ton of fun, and I'd like to follow the threads, and possibly participate in some form if I feel comfortable with the eras discussed.
Like I said in my pm don't worry too much about having deep knowledge of a specific era. Im thinking we could do a peak current player draft and a peak all-time draft to make it as inclusive as possible. If we do a current draft we use current rules and if we do an alltime draft we use a mix of rules (laid out in my first post).
It is basically choosing 90 players and 10 coaches altogether so it doesn't require someone to dig TOO deep in looking stuff up and if someone doesn't feel comfortable choosing an older player then just stick with picking players that you know.
I don't think choosing the best players is as important as choosing the correct players who fit together. For instance a lot of people choose guys like bruce bowen who isn't a top 100 player skill wise but his skillset is very conductive to team basketball so its sometimes better to choose a guy like him then to choose a guy like hayes, who has more skill but doesn't really fit as neatly into a team construct.
Rizko > Yeah, I think that's a very good idea. Team construction is always a fun exercise, since you also need to consider issues of fit, how you'd coach them, potential personality clashes etc.
[QUOTE=Rizko]Very good topic GOAT. I really like this stuff. Some of the few worthwhile posts that actually happen on this forum.
I don't post much anymore but when I did I was pretty into doing the Peak NBA drafts. I was a lot younger then (only 23 now) and didn't have nearly as much knowledge of basketball history and players as I do now.
Your topic reminded me of them. I would start one myself but I have my doubts that people would join if I started one, but I believe is a poster like you, kizzle or fplii who has a much bigger cache of respect it would take off.
Your current list seems to be a little more geared towards a players legacy while a peak draft is more about skill so while it is a kinda similar theme it has its own set of criteria and tests a posters ability to properly assess talent, chemistry, and overall fit of a team.
I would really enjoy if someone were to create the topic and if we got some legit posters to be involved in it and I think it would be a good way to discuss the xs and os of a team and a general idea of a teams construction.
I think there should be 10 players and 10 rounds. We choose 9 players and 1 coach. When the draft is done there are two options to choose a winner. We can either all make a post explaining why our team is the best and then a vote off happens with the active participants. No one can vote for themselves. They vote for three people and the number 1 vote gets 3 points, 2nd place 2 and 3rd place 1. Highest score wins and in the event of a tie we have a second round of voting.
The other option is we have a "play-in round" that leads to a playoffs. The voting happens in a similar manner for the play in round and the 8 highest vote getters join the playoff bracket. (with the highest vote getter on one side of the bracket and the lowest as the 4 seed on the same side, 2nd highest as the # 1 on the other side of the bracket and the 2nd lowest vote getter as the 4 seed on the other side. In the event of a 2 or 3 way tie the player with the most 1st place votes gets the higher side). Once the bracket has been set we have the playoffs where the high seed posts why he think his team would beat the low seed and then the low seed counters and then the high seed gets a 2nd counter (the high seed gets 2 times to argue there case as a way to simulate home court advantage and to reward someone for quality drafting).
As far as the rules that we play the game under I think it should be a mix of modern and oldschool. We bring handchecking back. We remove the 5 second back to the basket rule and possibly remove the 3 second rule (Im leery of bringing it back because I feel it would start to put the balance of power a little more towards post players and it would also hinder the effectiveness of dribble drive players).
I want to get a gauge from posters to see if there willing to participate. I truthfully really want to do it and I know kizzle used to always play when we were doing it so I hope he would be interested. If no one else wants to create the topic and be the comish I will
Seeding for drafting will be done by a random number generator. You get assigned a number based off spot you signed up for the draft (so the 7th person would be the 7th number in the number generator).
Anyone who has an interest in doing this please reply to this post (I don't log into my account often so I wont notice a pm immediately)
I hope to generate interest.[/QUOTE]
I'd be up for this definitely.
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[SIZE="4"][B][FONT="Book Antiqua"]#119 Mitchell James Richmond III
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[b]Vitals:[/b] 6
Run TMC should never have been broken up. :facepalm
One wonders if they stayed together, would the Warriors still get the chance to draft Chris Webber in 1993?
Now that would have been totally insane, a more talented version of Sacramento Kings circa 2000. :hammerhead: