Stock Market is f*cked

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14989972]It's money, sitting on accounts and waiting to get re-invested.
A year ago when the S&P was at the same worth as today, you weren't complaining about how people are poor and missing money, but instead explaining how everyone's doing great.

I bet Bernie is happy he got to see this.

[video=youtube_share;kvv3JZDiK58]https://youtu.be/kvv3JZDiK58[/video][/QUOTE]

Sure, but it's the problematic concept of our whole economic system. Of course the overall amount of "money" is an absolute multitude of what it was ten years ago. Our economy is built to grow and a lack if growth let's our economy crash. Even if the reduction is just to the point of 3 months ago it will crash several companies.

[video=youtube;Yk3-Vb7CH-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk3-Vb7CH-o[/video]

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14989972]It's money, sitting on accounts and waiting to get re-invested.
A year ago when the S&P was at the same worth as today, you weren't complaining about how people are poor and missing money, but instead explaining how everyone's doing great.

I bet Bernie is happy he got to see this.

[video=youtube_share;kvv3JZDiK58]https://youtu.be/kvv3JZDiK58[/video][/QUOTE]

This is such disingenuous and misleading argument. It's not just money. Companies don't go public for shits and giggles. An entire year's gains were wiped out in 3 months and everything is supposed to be ok?

Unlike what Fox and MAGA would have you believe, US economy was doing very well under Biden, in fact it was registering record highs in important economic metrics. Then the idiot rolls in and decimates the market with his heavy handed tactics.

The worse is yet to come. This selloff is just a reaction to the imposition of the tariffs. Their impact has yet to register both in the stock market and in the actual economy.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;14989996]Sure, but it's the problematic concept of our whole economic system. Of course the overall amount of "money" is an absolute multitude of what it was ten years ago. Our economy is built to grow and a lack if growth let's our economy crash. Even if the reduction is just to the point of 3 months ago it will crash several companies.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=86Celtics;14990190]This is such disingenuous and misleading argument. It's not just money. Firms don't go public for shits and giggles. An entire year's gains were wiped out in 3 months and everything is supposed to be ok?

Unlike what Fox and MAGA would have you believe, US economy was doing very well under Biden, in fact it was registering record highs in important economic metrics. Then the idiot rolls in and decimates the market with his heavy handed tactics.

The worse is yet to come. This selloff is just a reaction to the imposition of the tariffs. Their impact has yet to register both in the stock market and in the actual economy.[/QUOTE]

So in the video is Bernie Sanders in 2008 explaining how going full global economy by removing tariffs will hurt the American workers and make the richest people a lot richer.
Fast forward 17 years to today, the middle class has been eroded and economic inequality has sky rocketed, just like Bernie said would happen. And yet here you are, arguing why the current economy is so great because companies are generating a lot of profit instead of being forced to pay out higher salaries.

At the end of 2024, Ford had 28 billion in cash sitting on it's bank account and they still do today, their gains have not been wiped out. Some of [I]your[/I] gains have been wiped out though, because the success of your personal economy is tied to Ford(or whoever else) as a company creating so much money that they can pay out to people not even working there, instead of your own skills.
It goes with the territory of passively investing, especially in indexes, that you were able to make a lot of money while actually doing nothing at all, so you're also going to have less ability to cut loses when those companies have to do changes, like paying out higher salaries to their workers.

Serious question, do you guys still consider yourself social democrats, or have you accepted reality that you've become woke globalists?

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14990191]So in the video is Bernie Sanders in 2008 explaining how going full global economy by removing tariffs will hurt the American workers and make the richest people a lot richer.
Fast forward 17 years to today, the middle class has been eroded and economic inequality has sky rocketed, just like Bernie said would happen. And yet here you are, arguing why the current economy is so great because companies are generating a lot of profit instead of being forced to pay out higher salaries.

At the end of 2024, Ford had 28 billion in cash sitting on it's bank account and they still do today, their gains have not been wiped out. Some of [I]your[/I] gains have been wiped out though, because the success of your personal economy is tied to Ford(or whoever else) as a company creating so much money that they can pay out to people not even working there, instead of your own skills.
It goes with the territory of passively investing, especially in indexes, that you were able to make a lot of money while actually doing nothing at all, so you're also going to have less ability to cut loses when those companies have to do changes, like paying out higher salaries to their workers.

Serious question, do you guys still consider yourself social democrats, or have you accepted reality that you've become woke globalists?[/QUOTE]

Sup Zen, enjoy the worldwide recession your boy Trump gonna lead us into...go ahead and argue why Trump is a better option than literally anyone rn. I told you morons that Harris, as horrible as a candidate that she was, wasn't gonna be the cluster**** this Russian agent Krasnov was gonna be.

You basically have two options, that's it...either Trump is the dumbest **** in the world today ignoring all economists who predict Trump's worldwide tariffs will cause a global recession OR Trump is purposely doing this for nefarious reasons...

Which is it, bruh?

[QUOTE=TheMan;14990199]Sup Zen, enjoy the worldwide recession your boy Trump gonna lead us into...go ahead and argue why Trump is a better option than literally anyone rn. I told you morons that Harris, as horrible as a candidate that she was, wasn't gonna be the cluster**** this Russian agent Krasnov was gonna be.

You basically have two options, that's it...either Trump is the dumbest **** in the world today ignoring all economists who predict Trump's worldwide tariffs will cause a global recession OR Trump is purposely doing this for nefarious reasons...

Which is it, bruh?[/QUOTE]

When the recession is built on companies losing value because the future outlook of less corporate profit is due to higher expenses on worker salaries vs e.g increase in energy prices, I'm all good with it.
While it was a cool thing that you could invest some money and then after a few years have yearly dividend payouts 40-50% of your initial investment, it was always built on rapid population growth and moving production to parts of the world where they need suicide nets on the production facilities.

The success of your individual personal economy relying so much on stock price growth of companies has created this dual economy, where if you don't get on the train for whatever reason, you're ****ed. And when people are ****ed they get desperate, turn to crime and make society an uncomfortable place.
On top of that, when there's more people with better paying jobs(a strong middle class) much more money will be spent in the local economy on services and products from small business, and a I like a society where small business can thrive and not just survive.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14990191]So in the video is Bernie Sanders in 2008 explaining how going full global economy by removing tariffs will hurt the American workers and make the richest people a lot richer.
Fast forward 17 years to today, the middle class has been eroded and economic inequality has sky rocketed, just like Bernie said would happen. And yet here you are, arguing why the current economy is so great because companies are generating a lot of profit instead of being forced to pay out higher salaries.

At the end of 2024, Ford had 28 billion in cash sitting on it's bank account and they still do today, their gains have not been wiped out. Some of [I]your[/I] gains have been wiped out though, because the success of your personal economy is tied to Ford(or whoever else) as a company creating so much money that they can pay out to people not even working there, instead of your own skills.
It goes with the territory of passively investing, especially in indexes, that you were able to make a lot of money while actually doing nothing at all, so you're also going to have less ability to cut loses when those companies have to do changes, like paying out higher salaries to their workers.

Serious question, do you guys still consider yourself social democrats, or have you accepted reality that you've become woke globalists?[/QUOTE]

This is a very weird way to look at things. Economic inequality hasn't skyrocketed because of the removal of tariffs. No one said that the current economy is great either, but what's coming will be infinitely worse. If you think that behemoths such as Apple losing hundreds of billions in market capitalization in an almost unprecedented manner, won't make a difference, I have a bridge to sell you. Stocks are plummeting because traders and investors can see the writing on the wall.

Companies have laid off thousands of people in far more normal circumstances than these. There is going to be a significant spike in unemployment, whereas salaries will drop off and prices will go further up. This is nothing less but a self-induced recession. The only question is if he's doing it because he is that stupid and ignorant, or because he's Putin's puppet.

[QUOTE=86Celtics;14990215]This is a very weird way to look at things. Economic inequality hasn't skyrocketed because of the removal of tariffs. No one said that the current economy is great either, but what's coming will be infinitely worse. If you think that behemoths such as Apple losing hundreds of billions in market capitalization in an almost unprecedented manner, won't make a difference, I have a bridge to sell you. Stocks are plummeting because traders and investors can see the writing on the wall.

[B]Companies have laid off thousands of people in far more normal circumstances than these. [/B]There is going to be a significant spike in unemployment, whereas salaries will drop off and prices will go further up. This is nothing less but a self-induced recession. The only question is if he's doing it because he is that stupid and ignorant, or because he's Putin's puppet.[/QUOTE]

We've already seen thousands of federal jobs gutted, and those were supposed to be 'safe'. Private companies are going to absolutely go fukking HAM shedding operating costs ( and the easiest way to do that is reducing jobs). Reportedly the 'real' unemployment rate is in the ballpark of 25%. At what point does that number mean we're 'officially' in a depression? Because words like 'recession' and 'depression' are words that the powers that be like to downplay and obfuscate. The economy ultimately is a very personal thing, so good luck telling the average American one check from being homeless that the economy is 'fine' or 1%ers telling you 'there will be temporary pain'. Most people don't even have $1000 in their account for an emergency bill.

[QUOTE=86Celtics;14990215]This is a very weird way to look at things. Economic inequality hasn't skyrocketed because of the removal of tariffs. No one said that the current economy is great either, but what's coming will be infinitely worse. If you think that behemoths such as Apple losing hundreds of billions in market capitalization in an almost unprecedented manner, won't make a difference, I have a bridge to sell you. Stocks are plummeting because traders and investors can see the writing on the wall.

Companies have laid off thousands of people in far more normal circumstances than these. There is going to be a significant spike in unemployment, whereas salaries will drop off and prices will go further up. This is nothing less but a self-induced recession. The only question is if he's doing it because he is that stupid and ignorant, or because he's Putin's puppet.[/QUOTE]

Economic inequality has skyrocketed largely due to trade barriers being removed, making it possible to replace US production with Asian or South American. Tariffs creates those barriers again, making it more profitable to produce in the US than on the other side of the planet. Less money for shipping companies and banks, more money for producing workers.
Any spike in layoffs will be negated from both American and international companies moving production to the US. Lots of CEOs and C-Suite out there who lost 15-20% of their salary these last few days on their unvested stock options, while at the same time having to discuss opportunities of how to create new jobs in America, you love to see it.

On top of all that, new trade deals can be made so more profit can be generated from actually exporting to other countries, instead of nearshoring and off shoring production of products consumed by the US population.

[QUOTE=Off the Court;14989999][video=youtube;Yk3-Vb7CH-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk3-Vb7CH-o[/video][/QUOTE]


That's a good one...

but mine is better:

[video=youtube;MXPFRRbjvYg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXPFRRbjvYg[/video]

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14990221]Economic inequality has skyrocketed largely due to trade barriers being removed, making it possible to replace US production with Asian or South American. Tariffs creates those barriers again, making it more profitable to produce in the US than on the other side of the planet. Less money for shipping companies and banks, more money for producing workers.
Any spike in layoffs will be negated from both American and international companies moving production to the US. Lots of CEOs and C-Suite out there who lost 15-20% of their salary these last few days on their unvested stock options, while at the same time having to discuss opportunities of how to create new jobs in America, you love to see it.

On top of all that, new trade deals can be made so more profit can be generated from actually exporting to other countries, instead of nearshoring and off shoring production of products consumed by the US population.[/QUOTE]

I think you have to remember the reason why production was moved offshore. The cost of labour is drastically reduced, which means lower prices. These tariffs are going to drastically increase the costs of literally everything for Americans before manufacturing plants can even be built. What does that mean? It means everything going up in prices before we even start seeing manufacturing jobs. Once manufacturing jobs start, best case scenario is prices stay elevated but stabilize. Realistically, prices of everything will continue to climb unless Americans are willing to work long hours without minimum wage.

"America is a pseudo democracy. Elon Musk can spend $270 to get Trump elected. Where is the democracy?"--Bernie Sanders.

[QUOTE=Doomsday Dallas;14990224]That's a good one...

but mine is better:

[video=youtube;MXPFRRbjvYg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXPFRRbjvYg[/video][/QUOTE]

This is much worse than I remember. Like hundreds of people all sitting down quietly watching Bane. No cops in sight. When in reality they would all be running and screaming frantically, it would be chaos.

I guess we have finally reached a point where these flicks feel dated.

Robert Pattinson flicks feel a little better. A little darker. Much more stylized.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14990191]So in the video is Bernie Sanders in 2008 explaining how going full global economy by removing tariffs will hurt the American workers and make the richest people a lot richer.
Fast forward 17 years to today, the middle class has been eroded and economic inequality has sky rocketed, just like Bernie said would happen. And yet here you are, arguing why the current economy is so great because companies are generating a lot of profit instead of being forced to pay out higher salaries.

At the end of 2024, Ford had 28 billion in cash sitting on it's bank account and they still do today, their gains have not been wiped out. Some of [I]your[/I] gains have been wiped out though, because the success of your personal economy is tied to Ford(or whoever else) as a company creating so much money that they can pay out to people not even working there, instead of your own skills.
It goes with the territory of passively investing, especially in indexes, that you were able to make a lot of money while actually doing nothing at all, so you're also going to have less ability to cut loses when those companies have to do changes, like paying out higher salaries to their workers.

Serious question, do you guys still consider yourself social democrats, or have you accepted reality that you've become woke globalists?[/QUOTE]

Problem = great. Only in your twisted logic maybe.

[img]https://c.tenor.com/e4gFqieKWu8AAAAd/tenor.gif[/img]

[img]https://c.tenor.com/_0h03NrLpkgAAAAd/tenor.gif[/img]