80's vs 90's

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Yes, they lost 4-1. But keep in mind this wasn't the 80's lakers we are talking about. No Michael Cooper, No Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, No Pat Riley. You had Magic and Worthy but It just wasn't the same Lakers.[/QUOTE]
ill give you coop, but this is the center production the lakers got in 87 which i feel was their best team:

jabaar-thompson perkins-divac
pts28 26
rbd12 15
ast4 3
blk2 3

so really the lakers were getting just as much out of their centers in 91 as they were in 87

and i also took the time to look at the 36 minute stats of luc longley and here they are
97 season 13 pts 8 rbd 3ast 2 blks which arent bad and that as a what 4th option. playing against the best collection of centers ever.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]The Bulls actually lost to the Knicks in '94.[/QUOTE]

funny, how bout with jordan a full season

[QUOTE=72-10]Nope, it's not as significant as the difference in record and how they performed on the court. There's never been a team that dominated on both offense and defense like the Bulls. It's interesting how all of the [B]facts[/B] are in my corner. What you have is some speculation.[/QUOTE]

its not even speculation but all opinion

[QUOTE=97 bulls]ill give you coop, but this is the center production the lakers got in 87 which i feel was their best team:

jabaar-thompson perkins-divac
pts28 26
rbd12 15
ast4 3
blk2 3

so really the lakers were getting just as much out of their centers in 91 as they were in 87

and i also took the time to look at the 36 minute stats of luc longley and here they are
97 season 13 pts 8 rbd 3ast 2 blks which arent bad and that as a what 4th option. playing against the best collection of centers ever.[/QUOTE]

Um...Sam Perkins was actually PF for the '91 Lakers so that argument is garbage.

Perkins started played 73 games in '91 and started 66 games as the PF.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Well they played in a watered down NBA. While the Celtics played in the greatest era in NBA History. Alot of people don't seem to know that the Celtics had the #1 Defense in the NBA in 1986. [B]The Celtics have more fire power offensivley than the Bulls[/B] and they are much better in the paint.[/QUOTE]

League wasn't "watered down", it just wasn't quite as good as it was in 1986.

The bold is laughable.:lol

That's great that the Celtics had a great defense, and of course they did. The Bulls are the only team in history that [B]LED THE LEAGUE in both OFFENSE and DEFENSE[/B].

Actual Win-Loss record

86 Boston: 67-15
96 Chicago: 72-10 [B]*NBA record*[/B]
(Bulls win)

Expected Win-Loss record

86 Boston: 63-19
96 Chicago: 72-10 [B]*NBA record*[/B]
(Bulls win)

Average point differential

86 Boston: 9.4
96 Chicago: 12.3 [B]*NBA record*[/B]
(Bulls win)

SRS

86 Boston: 9.06
96 Chicago: 11.80 [B]*second all-time*[/B]
(Bulls win)

In case you forgot, the Bulls were actually better than their record. And this analysis fully backs that claim. They lost several games towards the end of the season that they could have easily won had they been pushing for stats.

Now do everyone a favor and shut up.

[QUOTE=72-10]League wasn't "watered down", it just wasn't quite as good as it was in 1986.

The bold is laughable.:lol

That's great that the Celtics had a great defense, and of course they did. The Bulls are the only team in history that [B]LED THE LEAGUE in both OFFENSE and DEFENSE[/B].

Actual Win-Loss record

86 Boston: 67-15
96 Chicago: 72-10 [B]*NBA record*[/B]

Expected Win-Loss record

86 Boston: 63-19
96 Chicago: 72-10 [B]*NBA record*[/B]

Average point differential

86 Boston: 9.4
96 Chicago: 12.3 [B]*NBA record*[/B]

SRS

86 Boston: 9.06
96 Chicago: 11.80 [B]*second all-time*[/B]

In case you forgot, the Bulls were actually better than their record. And this analysis fully backs that claim. They lost several games towards the end of the season that they could have easily won had they been pushing for stats.

Now do everyone a favor and shut up.[/QUOTE]

This doesn't mean anything. All it says is the Bulls were more dominant in a weaker NBA.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]This doesn't mean anything. All it says is the Bulls were more dominant in a weaker NBA.[/QUOTE]

Congratulations, you're a dip****. Do you know what SRS rates?:roll:

[QUOTE=72-10]Congratulations, you're a dip****. Do you know what SRS rates?:roll:[/QUOTE]

Does SRS rates proves what team is better?? NO!! All you are doing is looking at stats and records instead of looking at the match ups. And let me tell you those '96 Bulls dont match up well vs that Celtics Front Court Offense.

God you are dumb.:roll:

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Um...Sam Perkins was actually PF for the '91 Lakers so that argument is garbage.

Perkins started played 73 games in '91 and started 66 games as the PF.[/QUOTE]
fine add ac greens stats to both teams and thers still not much difference.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]fine add ac greens stats to both teams and thers still not much difference.[/QUOTE]

That proves the '87 Lakers were better at the Center position than the '91 Lakers.

[QUOTE=72-10]God you are dumb.:roll:[/QUOTE]

stop looking at stats.

[QUOTE=nycelt84]Pippen is best known for being a defensive player not offensive and in 93-94 he dropped 22.0 ppg and in the playoffs it was 22.8. Pippen would be an offensive threat from any position and keep in mind if he's playing PG like you say, he is locking down Ainge or Johnson and Pippen was too big and strong for any guard to handle at the offensive or defensive end. Pippen at PG favors the Bulls not the Celtics that is a clear mismatch. The Rockets did very well in the '86 series and they played without their starting point guard. Lastly Magic Johnson reached his prime starting in the 86-87 season. Magic's last 5 seasons were his 5 best seasons, the '86 Lakers were a team in transition.[/QUOTE]

[B]I agree that Pippen was a Scoring Threat but not a GREAT SCORING THREAT which Bird was:) . Then again Pippen was a Better Man to Man Defender than bird... Bird was a Better Team Defender, Clutch Player, Better Rebounder and Ofcourse better Passer-Assister and Game Creator.

Yes but from the Point Guard Position to score he would have to drive in All the Time Against DJ whom was not as easy to pass as you think:no: . [U]Especially if the Game was a Half Court Slow Pace[/U] (whch the Celtics would Force to Make at all Cost). So if he did Drive in and Score when he misses layps or shots then DJ would have oppen lanes to start fast breaks and finish them himself easy as he did many times in the Play-Offs. The Celtics would eventually make them game so..

[SIZE="4"]BACKCOURT:[/SIZE]

Pippen plays (PG-SG) and Bird (SG/SF)[/B]

[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]Pippen v.s Bird[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

[B]Bird would constantly Post Up Pippen as he did even in the early 90s. Schooling Him in Scoring, Rebounds and Assits. Pippen would obviously play Great Perimiter Defense but lets remember: this is Bird not in the Late 90s and early 90s but Bird in 84-85 to 86 seasons. A Much Faster Bird with a Back. So Pippen would have to Work even harder than he did to Stop Magic because Bird was a MAJOR SCORING THREAT and WORKED ASOUME OFF THE PICKS. PICKS which would would be Set Up my WALTON and McHALE.

Bird would obviously have a hard time Guarding Pippen one on one because Pip is faster but Bird is known for his "witts". He would just Retreat into a Half Court Slow Paced Game and force Pippen to Shoot. Pip was a Good Shooter but not a Great Shooter and...

We are also talking about Pippen at PG. His role would be to CREATE for his TEAM (which would not have a SCORING THREAT FRONTLINE with GRANT-RODMAN AND A WENNINGTON/LONGLEY etc). Pippen would have to do the following things:

1st CREATE. 2nd DEFEND (BIRD) 3rd-SCORE[/B]

[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]Jordan (SG) vs DJ (PG[/COLOR])[/SIZE][/B]

[B]Jordan would obviousLy Score his High Scoring Games but DJ in his Prime was not an easy guy to Guard himself. DJ was an asoume Post Player from the Guard Position and Loved Slow Pace Games. Dj wa quite strong and loved to use his butt and make you work your ass of in a Slow Pace Game. Jordan might stop DJ from Scoring alot ofcouse do to his great Defense but he would DEFINETLY NOT STOP DJ from MAKING GREAT PASSES to McHALE in the POST, BIRD of the Pick and Rolls (which Scottie never could stop) and PARISH in the Paint.

Then you had Jordan and Pippen doing BOTH CREATING and SCORING JOBS for the Whole Series. Plus Pippen GUARDING BIRD. This would definetly be a heavy Load for both.

Lets also remember that Ainge would also come in for some parts of the Game and this guy was ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED GREAT ROLL PLAYERS EVER AND HE COULD SHOOT and ECAPE REALLY WELL OFF PICK AND ROLLSt. In his Prime we was also a QUITE FAST. Jordan would have to work there to. POST UP against DJ AND RUN Against AINGE.

PIPPEN would eventually have to Rest same part of game so Harper would b the Point Guard and this guy would have more trouble Guarding BIRD than Pippen:) .

Nor Pippen nor Harper would stop a PRIME BIRD from Scoring 25-40, dishing in 5-8 assits and getting 10-15 boards.

If the Bulls put in PAXON or KERR as Combo Guards then they would Loose PASSING ABILITIES, SCORING ABILITIES, HEIGHT PRESENCE, STRENGTH and...

DANNY AINGES, DJs and BIRDS SCORING would be FLYING OUT THE WINDOW:) .

Forget about PAXON and KERR playing

So this means JORDAN AND PIPPEN/HARPER would have to play each alot of Minutes because only Harper would be their Substitute. This would be them playing alog of Minutes. SCORING-DEFENDING and being THE ONLY CREATIVE PLAYERS CAPANLE. But yes with a Frontline with No Talent (with the exception of Kucok). Pippen and Jordan would just better of dont pass in THE POST.[/B]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[B][SIZE="3"]FRONT COURT(FRONTLINE)[/SIZE][/B]

[B]Since the Celtics would use their Big Line Up they would use McHale at the PF, Walton as Center Forward (C-F) in a Twin Tower System (ala Hakeem-Samson, Duncan-Robinson) with Center Parish

You would end up with this:[/B]

[B][COLOR="blue"]McHALE (PF) vs RODMAN/GRANT/ KUKOC (PFs-SF)[/COLOR][/B]

[B]McHale was 6`10 ft (with a 7.2 footers arm range) tht could score 26 ppg at an Efficiency of 60.4%FG at one time. He would not be stooped in the Post by 6`6 1/2 ft Dennis Rodman nor Grant. McHale was a player whom needed Centers to Guard (even Kareem) him and still they failed from Stoping him :confusedshrug:.

Ofcouse if it was Rodman guadhing Mchale would have a harder time rebounding. Rodman might get in a couple of Offensive Rebounds but not as he usually dominated and he would be in faul troule. He could not stop 6`10 (7`2 ft arm range) McHale from scoring. Rodman and Grant would be flying all over the place with Foul Trouble trying to guard McHale and don`t expect Grant to outrebound McHale in any case. Then again McHale would be stoping Grant or Rodman (who ever played him) from Scoring big time.

If they put on KuKoc. McHale would definetly have a hard time Guarding him do to Speed and talent. Kucok would have to be forced to score from the outside the whole game which is not very efficient for the Bulls. Obviously Mchale would stop Kukoc from scoring in Post and would obviously destroy him in Rebounds.

Then again if Kukoc was guarding McHale. You would have not only [U]a worst Rebounder [/U]than Grant-Rodman but also a [U]Very Weak Post Defender[/U]. McHale`s s PRIME Scoring Averages and FG% would be flying out the window with this man guarding him. That is the price the Bulls would have to Pay for putting a more Talentd Scoring Kukoc on McHale. Maybe a little more Scoring but NO REBOUNDING and an EASIER TIME FOR MCHALE to SCHOOL IN THE POST.:) [/B]

[B][COLOR="blue"]WALTON (CF) v.s WENNINGTON/LONGLEY/GRANT (Cs and PF)[/COLOR][/B]

[B]They would certainly Not Out Rebound Walton. Nor Stop him from Scoring. They might be able to tire him off for 30s minutes but he remember Walton is an [U]Ex ALL STAR[/U] = Even Past his Prime he [U]could take his GAME TO ANOTHER LEVEL[/U]. Something These dudes couldnt :no:. Walton would stop them from scoring, would score on them and out outrebound them

Finally...[/B]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]PARISH vs WENNINGTON/LONGLEY[/COLOR][/B]

[B]Parish in his Prime (still 32 years of age in 86) was a man that could average 15-19 PPG while Scoring at an Efficiency of close to 60% FG. Was a 10-12 RPG man and an absolute Post Up Defensive Stopper. Parish would be too Fast for slow Longley and Wennington and Way More Agressive and Witty than these two.

Parish would Stop them from Scoring, Outrebound them and obviously would Kill them in the Paint Post Up to Score.

Finished.

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]The Bulls would have to Play A FAST PACE GAME and the CETLICS A SLOW POST UP FRONTCOURT GAME.

At the End the BULLS don`t have the TALENT and BENCH to PLAY LIKE THE 1980s LAKERS FAST PACED STYLE and WIN. So the Bulls would be FORCED TO PLAY CELTICS GAME (SLOW PACE FRONTCOURT POST UP GAME) and THEY WOULD BE FALLING INTO A TRAP[/COLOR]

There is absolutely no way the 1996 Bulls would beat a PRIME 1986 CELTICS.

CELTICS 4, BULLS 2 (If that)

There is Enough Proof:violin:[/B]

[B]END[/B]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles]
There is absolutely no way the 1996 Bulls would beat a PRIME 1986 CELTICS.

There is Enough Proof:violin:[/B][/QUOTE]

The same 1986 Celtics that MJ almost beat single handedly with a 63 point effort in the playoffs?

On a MUCH worse team than he had in '96?

Sure they got sweeped in that series, but MJ had to output crazy numbers to make up for the crap team he had. Didn't that team have like the worst record to make the playoffs? And they gave the 86 Celtics problems? Imagine what the 96 Bulls would do

There will never be enough proof all there ever will be are matters of opinion. These teams never faced each other so all anyone can ever do is speculate. A number of points first no team ever ever used a guard to defend Scottie Pippen. It was foolish Pippen was 6'7 too big and strong for any guard to defend. Pippen would drive in against any smaller weaker guard. Kevin McHale was a player prone to foul trouble and Dennis Rodman was the best defensive player of his time. If you don't think Rodman could get in his head look up the '88 Eastern Conference Finals posted on youtube and look at what happened with Bird and McHale. And Rodman was twice the agitator later on his career than he was early on. You can't you use opinions and claim they are facts. The only facts are that the '86 Celtics were the best team that year and the Bulls were the best team in '96. And I honestly believe the '97 team with Brian Williams off the bench was better.