Wilt Chamberlain: 24 Inch Vertical

[QUOTE=3ball]this is awesome... he's well past his athletic prime in this photo [B]and the picture is obviously a legit angle...
[/B]
and it squares with other youtube vids of wilt appearing to get his head by the rim... [B]confirmed 35+ vert[/B]... confirmed goat nba talent.[/QUOTE]
Legit angle? Looking at the rim, it's "confirmed" that the picture was taken from below the height of the rim. Therefore, if Chamberlain is even one inch closer to the camera than the rim is, then the angle is misleading.
The best angle for any vertical confirmation is straight on at the height of the rim. So it just looks like a single piece of metal. Otherwise, it can be distorted.

Considering the "logic leaps" you made, though, from confirmed vert to confirmed goat, I'd say you were being sarcastic. But in the event you were not, just thought I'd point out the obvious.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]Legit angle? Looking at the rim, it's "confirmed" that the picture was taken from below the height of the rim. [B]Therefore, if Chamberlain is even one inch closer to the camera than the rim is, then the angle is misleading.[/B]
The best angle for any vertical confirmation is straight on at the height of the rim. So it just looks like a single piece of metal. Otherwise, it can be distorted.

Considering the "logic leaps" you made, though, from confirmed vert to confirmed goat, I'd say you were being sarcastic. But in the event you were not, just thought I'd point out the obvious.[/QUOTE]
Chamberlain is behind the rim, not in front of it.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Chamberlain is behind the rim, not in front of it.[/QUOTE]
Maybe someone that knows more about pictures can see that, but I can't. When I look at it, all I see is that Chamberlain could, might be, may be, in front, behind, or level with the rim.

Just arguing technicalities here. Again, I'd be absolutely shocked if he didn't have a 24" vert at age 50, much less 36, much less 22. Just saying the picture doesn't really prove anything.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]Just arguing technicalities here. Again, I'd be absolutely shocked if he didn't have a 24" vert at age 50, much less 36, much less 22. Just saying the picture doesn't really prove anything.[/QUOTE]

But the video where he blocks and catches a jump shot at it's apex is clearly somewhere between 12'4" to to the top of the backboard. That was his college days, though. But it was really high up. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone else block a jump shot that far up off two feet and catch it on the way down. He had his fingertips at the top of the ball when he blocks it.

[QUOTE=Marchesk]But the video where he blocks and catches a jump shot at it's apex is clearly somewhere between 12'4" to to the top of the backboard. That was his college days, though. But it was really high up. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone else block a jump shot that far up off two feet and catch it on the way down. He had his fingertips at the top of the ball when he blocks it.[/QUOTE]
Again, not arguing that he could jump really high. Just pointed out the picture doesn't prove anything.

That "top of the backboard" block video was what convinced me that Wilt really was a superior athlete. I'd never seen anything like that in a game. Not that high up. Certainly not off two feet from a defensive stance. Of course Wilt was really long as well.

Based on the videos Cavs has on his channel, there's no way Wilt had less than a 34" vertical. Simply no way. He probably could touch the top of the backboard in his athletic prime.

LOL @ 24" vertical. People thought Wilt was some unathletic stiff that dominated inferior competition.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]Again, not arguing that he could jump really high. Just pointed out the picture doesn't prove anything.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Just wanted a chance to stan. :cheers:

[QUOTE=Marchesk]Fair enough. Just wanted a chance to stan. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
I am all for "stanning" the older generation. Anyone I didn't get an opportunity to watch, I love to hear about. Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Cousy, Baylor, Moses, even Barkley, Magic, Bird to an extent (started watching in '94 and don't go out of my way for video).
Wilt is one of my favorite players of all time, and I have him on my first tier. So I'm all for it. I just don't like it when a "questionable" argument is stated as fact, even if I believe said fact. Gives all the "stans" a bad name.

[QUOTE=Marchesk]That "top of the backboard" block video was what convinced me that Wilt really was a superior athlete. I'd never seen anything like that in a game. Not that high up. Certainly not off two feet from a defensive stance. Of course Wilt was really long as well.

Based on the videos Cavs has on his channel, there's no way Wilt had less than a 34" vertical. Simply no way. He probably could touch the top of the backboard in his athletic prime.

LOL @ 24" vertical. People thought Wilt was some unathletic stiff that dominated inferior competition.[/QUOTE]


How about these facts as well...

There were at least two eye-witness accounts of Wilt touching the top of the backboard (the well respected Sonny Hill, and Sixer's long-time trainer, Al Domenico.)

None other than Tex Winter claimed to have witnessed Wilt dunking from the FT line. He was so shocked by it, that he headed a committee to "ban the freakish activity."

Chamberlain won a College High Jump championship. As remarkable as that was, in itself, he did so, part-time, with poor techinque, and the day after a grueling conference basketball game the night before. One can only wonder what a "full-time" Chamberlain would have been capable of.

Wilt's college coach, Phog Allen, rolled out an experimental 12 foot rim, and there are articles which claim that Wilt was dunking on it.

There is footage of a 35 year old Wilt, at over 300 lbs, and on a surgically repaird knee, blocking Kareem's "unblockable" sky-hook, and he not only did it at it's apex, he did so TWICE within a few seconds. Those that saw the two play, including myself, would tell you that he was routinely blocking KAJ's sky-hooks.

You have seen the video footage of Wilt's blocked shot, in which his fingertips are within a couple of inches of the top of the backboard...or somewhere around 12'-9" to 12'-10". He accomplished that leap without benefit of a running start, going straight up, and with only a split second to react. Think about this...a couple of years ago, a fully rested Dwight Howard, with a running start, and on his second try, reached 12'-6". Now, ask yourself this... just what would a peak athletic Wilt have been capable of under the same circumstances as Howard?

[QUOTE=Marchesk]That "top of the backboard" block video was what convinced me that Wilt really was a superior athlete. I'd never seen anything like that in a game. Not that high up. Certainly not off two feet from a defensive stance. Of course Wilt was really long as well.

Based on the videos Cavs has on his channel, there's no way Wilt had less than a 34" vertical. Simply no way. He probably could touch the top of the backboard in his athletic prime.

LOL @ 24" vertical. People thought Wilt was some unathletic stiff that dominated inferior competition.[/QUOTE]

Marchesk, can you post the link of the video to which you are referring? I've seen the ones on youtube where Wilt is allegedly at the top of the backboard, however, they are taken at a camera angle that almost invariably exaggerates how high a player is. The angle is from the opposite side of the court, and looking down at a significant angle at the game action. If that's the footage you are describing, then unfortunately those angles are almost certainly distorted.

I like to take a measured view of Wilt. Honestly, I'm a bit more impressed with the variety of his skills and different moves and shots than with his overall athleticism. The vast majority of footage that I've seen, (and I've watched lots of Cavs' footage and whatever else I can see) suggest a player with good, but not out of this world leaping ability. In the vast majority of his posted dunks and blocks, both in his younger and older days, he is nowhere close to rim level. And yes, I know we are missing most of his footage, but thanks largely to Cavs, we do at least have enough footage to make some preliminary conclusions. On average, he is less explosive on a typical dunk than a player like Shaq, DRob, or, a player today like DeAndre Jordan (obviously he's a far greater player than Jordan; I'm simply talking about dunks).

I've seen no footage or pics where I would conclusively state he was rim level. Wilt did have fantastically long arms, which helps him in blocking shots, so I suppose it might be possible for him to have reached the top of the backboard... but I'm a bit skeptical.

In my opinion, Wilt may have had a similar vertical to Shaq or Robinson, both of whom could get their head rim level, or perhaps a bit less. Something like 33-36 inches. And certainly nowhere near the 50 inch or so vertical that Wilt claimed he had.

However, Wilt may be the best combination I've seen from a center as far as a mix of size, power, athleticism AND skill. He certainly has a greater range of offensive moves and shots than Shaq, but I'd also say he appears to be generally less explosive and less physical. And yes, I know that some will argue that Wilt had to, or chose to play with more finesse and/or Shaq would foul out immediately in the 60's. That may or may not be true. On the other hand, from what I've seen in the footage, Shaq faced far more aggressive double teams and overall physical play from defenses than Wilt did. To be honest, I've not been very impressed overall with the team strategies or individual defense that Wilt was facing, Admittedly, the footage is limited, but again, we now have enough to make some rational observations.

This is just my two cents worth and I'm not to try to unfairly criticize Wilt. I have him and Shaq in a virtual tie for greatest center. I would have loved to have seen those two go at it, whether in the 60's or the 2000's. It would have been a battle for the ages.

[QUOTE=Elosha]Marchesk, can you post the link of the video to which you are referring? I've seen the ones on youtube where Wilt is allegedly at the top of the backboard, however, they are taken at a camera angle that almost invariably exaggerates how high a player is. The angle is from the opposite side of the court, and looking down at a significant angle at the game action. If that's the footage you are describing, then unfortunately those angles are almost certainly distorted.

I like to take a measured view of Wilt. Honestly, I'm a bit more impressed with the variety of his skills and different moves and shots than with his overall athleticism. The vast majority of footage that I've seen, (and I've watched lots of Cavs' footage and whatever else I can see) suggest a player with good, but not out of this world leaping ability. In the vast majority of his posted dunks and blocks, both in his younger and older days, he is nowhere close to rim level. And yes, I know we are missing most of his footage, but thanks largely to Cavs, we do at least have enough footage to make some preliminary conclusions. On average, he is less explosive on a typical dunk than a player like Shaq, DRob, or, a player today like DeAndre Jordan (obviously he's a far greater player than Jordan; I'm simply talking about dunks).

I've seen no footage or pics where I would conclusively state he was rim level. Wilt did have fantastically long arms, which helps him in blocking shots, so I suppose it might be possible for him to have reached the top of the backboard... but I'm a bit skeptical.

In my opinion, Wilt may have had a similar vertical to Shaq or Robinson, both of whom could get their head rim level, or perhaps a bit less. Something like 33-36 inches. And certainly nowhere near the 50 inch or so vertical that Wilt claimed he had.

However, Wilt may be the best combination I've seen from a center as far as a mix of size, power, athleticism AND skill. He certainly has a greater range of offensive moves and shots than Shaq, but I'd also say he appears to be generally less explosive and less physical. And yes, I know that some will argue that Wilt had to, or chose to play with more finesse and/or Shaq would foul out immediately in the 60's. That may or may not be true. On the other hand, from what I've seen in the footage, Shaq faced far more aggressive double teams and overall physical play from defenses than Wilt did. To be honest, I've not been very impressed overall with the team strategies or individual defense that Wilt was facing, Admittedly, the footage is limited, but again, we now have enough to make some rational observations.

This is just my two cents worth and I'm not to try to unfairly criticize Wilt. I have him and Shaq in a virtual tie for greatest center. I would have loved to have seen those two go at it, whether in the 60's or the 2000's. It would have been a battle for the ages.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://youtu.be/zirehYtoxoI?t=5m42s[/url]

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][url]http://youtu.be/zirehYtoxoI?t=5m42s[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks Cavs. Those two blocks are the footage I was thinking of. He obviously jumped high, but the angle is just what I described. I think that above the rim, opposite side of the court angle is generally going to add anywhere from 3-4 inches to anyone's jump. I've seen multiple occasions where that same angle is shown, and than another angle looking straight at the rim without any angle (such as a half court camera angle zoomed in) shows the player much lower. It's why I argued that 3Ball's alley oop dunk that appears to show MJ at eye/nose level with the rim, was more likely just head at rim, or slightly higher. Same type of angle.

Also, even at this distorted angle, Wilt's hands are clearly not at the top of the backboard. Still amazingly high though, probably at least 12 feet.

For a center, he had a very good, maybe even elite vertical leap. He's obviously a strong GOAT candidate; it's just sometimes I feel his proponents maybe push the boundaries a bit far when it comes speculating about his physical attributes. Wilt simply can't be the best at every single aspect of the game, it's not physically possible. And as great as Wilt is, in my opinion there have been many NBA players with higher verticals than him.

[QUOTE=Elosha]Thanks Cavs. Those two blocks are the footage I was thinking of. He obviously jumped high, but the angle is just what I described. I think that above the rim, opposite side of the court angle is generally going to add anywhere from 3-4 inches to anyone's jump. I've seen multiple occasions where that same angle is shown, and than another angle looking straight at the rim without any angle (such as a half court camera angle zoomed in) shows the player much lower. It's why I argued that 3Ball's alley oop dunk that appears to show MJ at eye/nose level with the rim, was more likely just head at rim, or slightly higher. Same type of angle.

Also, even at this distorted angle, Wilt's hands are clearly not at the top of the backboard. Still amazingly high though, probably at least 12 feet.

For a center, he had a very good, maybe even elite vertical leap. He's obviously a strong GOAT candidate; it's just sometimes I feel his proponents maybe push the boundaries a bit far when it comes speculating about his physical attributes. Wilt simply can't be the best at every single aspect of the game, it's not physically possible. And as great as Wilt is, in my opinion there have been many NBA players with higher verticals than him.[/QUOTE]
He really is someone who could do things no one else in the history of the game has been capable of though. He could palm a 16lb bowling ball without using the holes. I've seen Michael Jordan try it on Jay Leno, he couldn't do it. I can't imagine anyone else in the history of the game could. Maybe Wayne Embry, but I'm not sure. He could flagpole his 7 foot 1 inch frame on a lamp post. There's a lot of things he could do that literally no other player that I'm aware was even remotely capable of. I think Wilt went off the rails when he claimed he had a 50 inch vertical, but I believe his vertical, at his weight or height, was unprecedented and to this day unrivaled. Bare minimum he had a 12 and a half foot reach, that's actually a figure that is cited in a newspaper if I can dig it up.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]He could flagpole his 7 foot 1 inch frame on a lamp post.[/QUOTE]

:wtf:

That's ridiculous. The taller you are, the harder that is to do.

And yeah, I'd say his vert was at least 24 inches:lol I'd bet my life savings on that, and it would be the best investment I've ever made.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]He really is someone who could do things no one else in the history of the game has been capable of though. He could palm a 16lb bowling ball without using the holes. I've seen Michael Jordan try it on Jay Leno, he couldn't do it. I can't imagine anyone else in the history of the game could. Maybe Wayne Embry, but I'm not sure. He could flagpole his 7 foot 1 inch frame on a lamp post. There's a lot of things he could do that literally no other player that I'm aware was even remotely capable of. I think Wilt went off the rails when he claimed he had a 50 inch vertical, but I believe his vertical, at his weight or height, was unprecedented and to this day unrivaled. [B]Bare minimum he had a 12 and a half foot reach, that's actually a figure that is cited in a newspaper if I can dig it up[/B].[/QUOTE]

Which, at the very least, equals Dwight's "Sport Science Record" 12-6 leap with a running start (and fully refreshed.)