prime dirk vs current durant?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]In what way? Jason Kidd is the main floor leader.

For himself??? for others??? He doesn't dribble much and isn't a great creator like the other great scorers. Maybe you can explain how its different for Jason Terry?

The midrange game is indeed a great quality so I will give you that. But Terry's long range game was more accurate in the wins which I was obviously talking about.
Since you obviously didn't read it.

Terry made more baskets and three pointers shooting 20 shots less in the last three games. In the last three games after the series was tied

Terry shot 25 for 43 a 58% clip for 22 ppg
Dirk shot. 24 for 64 a 37.5% clip for 25.6 ppg

That's only a 3.6 differential with a whopping 20% point difference in percentage!

[B]In the four finals wins:
30/54 555% for Terry
34/86 395% for Dirk[/B]
Dirk took 32 more shots to get 4 more baskets.

When Terry plays bad they lost both games. When Dirk plays bad they still won. When Terry plays well they win. When Dirk was most productive scoring wise they lost. They won 3 of 4 games when Terry took more than 12 shots - as he was the most efficient shooter on Dallas.

Yet Dirk's offense is suppose to mean more than the defense? You two are waaaaay off base. Dirk wasn't their most consistent scorer or their most efficient scorer when they won.[/QUOTE]

When you put it like that, the numbers don't lie. Terry played a very good role, I do remember him closing off a game. Credit where credits due, you make a good point,

As long as you admit that there is more to Dirk then just being an opportunistic scorer im cool with it :cheers:

Oh and i meant hes good at creating shots for himself, not so much others. Similar to Kobe Bryant.

anyone know what KD and Dirk's individual Win-% is in the regular season and in the playoffs?

Only thing I could find was a article from 2011, in which it states Dirk's Win-% is one of the best amongst current players, but that it drops off quite a bit in the playoffs.

Regular season: 627-322 (.661)
Post season: 48-55 (.466)

[QUOTE=Black and White]When you put it like that, the numbers don't lie. Terry played a very good role, I do remember him closing off a game. Credit where credits due, you make a good point,

As long as you admit that there is more to Dirk then just being an opportunistic scorer im cool with it :cheers:[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

Dude...he's cherry picking games. LOL

This isn't about who was better in wins in the finals...come on now

Not to mention it all stems from Dirk. Terry can rarely get his own shot...he relies almost exclusively on the Dirk pick and roll to get looks...

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]:facepalm

Dude...he's cherry picking games. LOL[/QUOTE]

Wait what???????

[QUOTE=Black and White]Wait what???????[/QUOTE]

He's listing 4 games...

How about all the games in which Terry was much much much much worse?

His problem is that he honestly thinks Dirk is just Terry who scores 10 more ppg...when in fact Dirk can have an elite offense run through him. He makes everyone better...etc. He just doesn't understand Dirk's value...and he's hell bent on over-rating the shit out of truly one dimensional players like Terry to try and make people think Dirk isn't that good.

Yet, the sad thing is, in his twisted mind he thinks he values overall play...yet his take on Terry is the exact opposite.

So if Terry is better than Gasol...how good must he think Dirk really is? Not only is Dirk a far better scorer than Terry...he's far more clutch...a far better defender/rebounder, and makes his teammates much better...LOL

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]He's listing 4 games...

How about all the games in which Terry was much much much much worse?[/QUOTE]

Whats Dirk and Terrys full stats over the whole series??

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Because he does way more than just score. He spaces the floor and runs an elite pick and roll game. He also rebounds (10 per game in the finals) and defends a lot better than you give him credit for...as I have now showed factually...and just the eye test as well.[/quote]

Every scorer spaces the floor. Scoring is scoring, if the pick and roll is way more efficient than other means of scoring then it counts.

Sorry a team metric does not mean a player is responsible for the teams defense. Dirk has never held a superstar player down in his career. It's a freak accident in 2 year career. But never in 14 year career is a definite indication.
[quote]
But again...who cares what you think? You think Terry was better than peak Gasol.

Which is laughable even more for you because you value all around play. [B]Terry is a poor playmaker, rebounder, and defender[/B]...he does nothing well but score...and even his scoring is below average for a championship 2nd option.

Truth.com[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm. So Dirk is a conversation with all time greats when he's the worst defender of the bunch, the worst defender, and the most one dimensional. Can we say CCONTTTRADICTION.

I really don't care about Terry vs Pau comparison. I just knew you would go where you just did. Terry's value is timely scoring, especially when Dirk's shooting goes below 40% and he comes in taking 20 less shots to get the same amount of points.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Every scorer spaces the floor. Scoring is scoring, if the pick and roll is way more efficient than other means of scoring then it counts.

Sorry a team metric does not mean a player is responsible for the teams defense. Dirk has never held a superstar player down in his career. It's a freak accident in 2 year career. But never in 14 year career is a definite indication.

Hmmmm. So Dirk is a conversation with all time greats when he's the worst defender of the bunch, the worst defender, and the most one dimensional. Can we say CCONTTTRADICTION.

I really don't care about Terry vs Pau comparison. I just knew you would go where you just did. Terry's value is timely scoring, especially when Dirk's shooting goes below 40% and he comes in taking 20 less shots to get the same amount of points.[/QUOTE]

But Dirk actually isn't...you just say he is. He's a 26/10/3 player for his career in the playoffs on some of the best overall efficiency...and his teams offense is always great.

He does way more than you give him credit for. The contradiction is with you moron. If you value Terry over Gasol...that means you value the things I claim are important you ****ing moron. Terry is like maybe 40% as good as Dirk..maybe...and you have Terry ranked over a 21/11/4 great all around power forward!!!!

jahahahahahahahahah

So obviously you value clutch scoring and efficient offense hugely...way more than I do...because I'd say Gasol is significantly better than terry

[QUOTE=Black and White]Whats Dirk and Terrys full stats over the whole series??[/QUOTE]

I think Dirk was something like 27/10/2...can't remember with Terry

But again...that is cherry picking. It's about the entire playoffs. And it's about the impact they each make.

It's not even remotely close.

Please don't fall for his bullshit. Of course the Mavs win when Terry plays well. That's what happens when you give Dirk a legit 2nd option. If Terry just averaged like 21 ppg like every 2nd option on title winning teams do...we honestly might have gone undefeated in the playoffs. That is how good Dirk was/is...give him a reliable 2nd fiddle and you can't stop him. Because you have to double him too often and if his teammates can make open shots and a guy can get the offense through the 10 minutes he's not out there...it's very difficult to beat him.

That's the whole point. Terry played like 85% like a normal championship 2nd option...and we won the title. Give Dirk a normal 2nd fiddle and an average championship defense and he's winning multiple titles...even against great competition. Been saying it for years...it happens...title. End of story.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]He's listing 4 games...

How about all the games in which Terry was much much much much worse?

His problem is that he honestly thinks [B]Dirk is just Terry who scores 10 more ppg[/B]...when in fact Dirk can have an elite offense run through him. He makes everyone better...etc. He just doesn't understand Dirk's value...and he's hell bent on over-rating the shit out of truly one dimensional players like Terry to try and make people think Dirk isn't that good.

Yet, the sad thing is, in his twisted mind he thinks he values overall play...yet his take on Terry is the exact opposite.

So if Terry is better than Gasol...how good must he think Dirk really is? Not only is Dirk a far better scorer than Terry...he's far more clutch...a far better defender/rebounder, and makes his teammates much better...LOL[/QUOTE]

Yea thats the only thing I have a problem with, so thats all ive been trying to achieve in this thread, Dirk is one of the top 5 PFs of all time,

You guys can debate the whole finals series etc between yourselves, i just want to make sure that Dirk gets the credit he has earnt in his time at Dallas, Terry was def good, but he isn't a franchise player like Dirk, thats the difference.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]:facepalm

Dude...he's cherry picking games. LOL

This isn't about who was better in wins in the finals...come on now[/quote]

So what is it about? Wade scored more than Dirk was more efficient and consistent from the field too. Blocked, assisted, and got more steals. When Terry plays well or foul the team follows suit more so than when Dirk plays well or bad. That's an indication of something.

[quote]
Not to mention it all stems from Dirk. Terry can rarely get his own shot...he relies almost exclusively on the Dirk pick and roll to get looks...[/QUOTE]
The pick and roll only works if both players can make something out of it. Dirk is the only player who is suppose to gain from the pick and roll?

[QUOTE=Black and White]Yea thats the only thing I have a problem with, so thats all ive been trying to achieve in this thread, Dirk is one of the top 5 PFs of all time,

You guys can debate the whole finals series etc between yourselves, i just want to make sure that Dirk gets the credit he has earnt in his time at Dallas, Terry was def good, but he isn't a franchise player like Dirk, thats the difference.[/QUOTE]

That's thing. We weren't ever talking about solely the finals...he just shifted the goal posts because he was losing the debate.

It's been about so many other things. You'd never use just 1 series...and even worse...just wins...to determine anything.

It's just facts he's arguing with. The Mavs defense was not great. It was very good overall...and was great at times. Terry was good, but a subpar 2nd option. Those things are really not debatable...

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]I think Dirk was something like 27/10/2...can't remember with Terry

But again...that is cherry picking. It's about the entire playoffs. And it's about the impact they each make.

It's not even remotely close.

Please don't fall for his bullshit. Of course the Mavs win when Terry plays well. That's what happens when you give Dirk a legit 2nd option. [B]If Terry just averaged like 21 ppg like every 2nd option on title winning teams do[/B]...we honestly might have gone undefeated in the playoffs. That is how good Dirk was/is...give him a reliable 2nd fiddle and you can't stop him. Because you have to double him too often and if his teammates can make open shots and a guy can get the offense through the 10 minutes he's not out there...it's very difficult to beat him.

That's the whole point. Terry played like 85% like a normal championship 2nd option...and we won the title. Give Dirk a normal 2nd fiddle and an average championship defense and he's winning multiple titles...even against great competition. Been saying it for years...it happens...title. End of story.[/QUOTE]

This here is a good point, because if LeBron stepped up and played like he normally does Miami probably walk out with the title.....

[QUOTE=Black and White]Whats Dirk and Terrys full stats over the whole series??[/QUOTE]

Nowtizki: 26ppg 9.7rpg 2apg 0.7spg 0.7bpg 2.8tpg 41.6%fg 36.8%3pt 97.8%ft in 40.4mpg

Terry: 18ppg 2rpg 3.2apg 1.3spg 1.3tpg 49.4%fg 39.3%3pt 75%ft in 32.6mpg