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[QUOTE=3ba11;14957018]Anyone can do that against sleeping opponents, so it wasn't a real 55 wins.
Young fans don't realize how much of a one-off it was - it was never a big story in 1994 because everyone knew the bubble would burst in short order and it did... 30 years later, new fans look back and mistakenly think the Bulls had a stacked cast when they literally had the worst scoring help and cast in the league and got by via 3-peat chemistry vs sleeping opponents.[/QUOTE]
:pimp:
AD destroyed GOAT Jokic and led every series, while Pippen got destroyed by ordinary forwards like X-Man, Schrempf, Larry Johnson, Juwan Howard, Larry Nance, and many more forwards, while NEVER leading any series - he was always a secondary producer and mostly a dunker/transition player with the lowest clutch and 4th quarter stats of all-time.
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[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]
The 94' Bulls weren't a real 55-win team by virtue of facing sleeping opponents, who woke up and exposed the "real" Bulls as 2nd Round losers and borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned.
Obviously, adding an All-NBA player to a borderline .500 team probably wouldn't even produce a conference finals or Finals, let alone a title or 3-peat.
Maybe chip. I'm not completely convinced Derozan would offset Dreams massive advantage over any Bulls big though. I couldn't see them not making the finals if you add demar instead of a d-league guy.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14957151]Maybe chip. I'm not completely convinced Derozan would offset Dreams massive advantage over any Bulls big though. I couldn't see them not making the finals if you add demar instead of a d-league guy.[/QUOTE]
The 94' Bulls weren't a real 55-win team, so the entire thread is moot.
The "real" Bulls were a 2nd Round loser and borderline .500 in 1995, so a .500 team won't even make the conference finals or Finals with Derozan, let alone win a title or 3-peat.
In the 93' Finals, the Bulls and Suns both averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ortg, so every ounce of Jordan's 41 ppg was needed, which means he's the only guy in history that could 3-peat with that team.. Btw, Pippen shot 0% on threes and 59% from the line, so his true shooting was only 46.9% and therefore he couldn't handle additional load.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14957174]The 94' Bulls weren't a real 55-win team, so the entire thread is moot.
The "real" Bulls were a 2nd Round loser and borderline .500 in 1995, so a .500 team won't even make the conference finals or Finals with Derozan, let alone win a title or 3-peat.
In the 93' Finals, the Bulls and Suns both averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ortg, so every ounce of Jordan's 41 ppg was needed, which means he's the only guy in history that could 3-peat with that team.. Btw, Pippen shot 0% on threes and 59% from the line, so his true shooting was only 46.9% and therefore he couldn't handle additional load.[/QUOTE]
You're an idiot, historical record shows that the 94 Bulls were, in fact, a 55 win team. There's no such thing as a real or fake one. Results are set in stone. The Bulls were a 55 win team without Mj the 95 version wasn't even the same team without Grant, who apparently was a much more vital part of the teams makeup than anyone knew at the time. Ps, stop being stupid for attention.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14957203]You're an idiot, historical record shows that the 94 Bulls were, in fact, a 55 win team. There's no such thing as a real or fake one. Results are set in stone. The Bulls were a 55 win team without Mj the 95 version wasn't even the same team without Grant, who apparently was a much more vital part of the teams makeup than anyone knew at the time. Ps, stop being stupid for attention.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
Typical 3ball melting down.
mikey had pip
if pip had another pip hed win too
mikeys impact is pippen
scottie pippen was the most winning player in the 90s, not michael jordan.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14957203]
Grant, who apparently was a much more vital part of the teams makeup than anyone knew at the time.
[/QUOTE]
Pure nonsense.. Lebron needed franchise players at power forward, while it was a just role player spot for Jordan because he won titles with 3 different role players starting at PF.
Kukoc was the starter for the 98' Playoffs, and then fossil Rodman averaged 3/8 for the 97' Playoffs and forced MJ to co-lead the rebounding with 8 RPG for that title run.
Horace had a twin brother named Harvey that was a similar caliber but wasn't inflated by the winning spotlight like Horace was.... Rebounding was Horace's best quality, yet he wasn't elite at it - guys like Tristan Thompson, Boozer, Drew Gooden, or Udonis Haslem were better rebounders, let alone Bosh, Love, Jamison or AD.
So again, the 94' Bulls weren't a real 55-win team, which makes the thread moot - everyone knew the bubble would burst and it did... The "real" Bulls were a 2nd Round loser and borderline .500 in 95', so a .500 team won't even make the conference finals or Finals with Derozan, let alone win a title or 3-peat... It's easy to forget that the Bulls and Suns both averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ORTG in the 93' Finals, so all of MJ's 41 was needed... Similarly, the 92' ECF and Finals were razor-thin, including a 7-game series against NY with Pippen choking vs X-Man.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14957917]Pure nonsense.. Lebron needed franchise players at power forward, while it was a just role player spot for Jordan because he won titles with 3 different role players starting at PF.
Kukoc was the starter for the 98' Playoffs, and then fossil Rodman averaged 3/8 for the 97' Playoffs and forced MJ to co-lead the rebounding with 8 RPG for that title run.
Horace had a twin brother named Harvey that was a similar caliber but wasn't inflated by the winning spotlight like Horace was.... Rebounding was Horace's best quality, yet he wasn't elite at it - guys like Tristan Thompson, Boozer, Drew Gooden, or Udonis Haslem were better rebounders, let alone Bosh, Love, Jamison or AD.
So again, the 94' Bulls weren't a real 55-win team, which makes the thread moot - everyone knew the bubble would burst and it did... The "real" Bulls were a 2nd Round loser and borderline .500 in 95', so a .500 team won't even make the conference finals or Finals with Derozan, let alone win a title or 3-peat... It's easy to forget that the Bulls and Suns both averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ORTG in the 93' Finals, so all of MJ's 41 was needed... Similarly, the 92' ECF and Finals were razor-thin, including a 7-game series against NY with Pippen choking vs X-Man.[/QUOTE]
Rodman saved the Bulls bacon in 96. There wouldn't have been a 93 Finals for MJ to average over 40ppg had Pippen not done what he did in 93 vs the Knicks in the ECF.
That's 2 Championships that MJ wouldn't have had if his "role player" teammates had not come through for him.
Harvey Grant wasn't the same type of player as Horace. The Bulls missed Horace's interior defense and rebounding. That's why they went out and got Rodman in 95.
And for the record. This is why the 1-9 argument is so relevant. Guys like 3ball who think that Jordan could've won with any decent players. Why didn't he win before Pippen and Grant?
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14957960]Rodman saved the Bulls bacon in 96. There wouldn't have been a 93 Finals for MJ to average over 40ppg had Pippen not done what he did in 93 vs the Knicks in the ECF.
That's 2 Championships that MJ wouldn't have had if his "role player" teammates had not come through for him.
Harvey Grant wasn't the same type of player as Horace. The Bulls missed Horace's interior defense and rebounding. That's why they went out and got Rodman in 95.
And for the record. This is why the 1-9 argument is so relevant. Guys like 3ball who think that Jordan could've won with any decent players. Why didn't he win before Pippen and Grant?[/QUOTE]
Great posts
[QUOTE=3ba11;14957917]Pure nonsense.. Lebron needed franchise players at power forward, while it was a just role player spot for Jordan because he won titles with 3 different role players starting at PF.
Kukoc was the starter for the 98' Playoffs, and then fossil Rodman averaged 3/8 for the 97' Playoffs and forced MJ to co-lead the rebounding with 8 RPG for that title run.
Horace had a twin brother named Harvey that was a similar caliber but wasn't inflated by the winning spotlight like Horace was.... Rebounding was Horace's best quality, yet he wasn't elite at it - guys like Tristan Thompson, Boozer, Drew Gooden, or Udonis Haslem were better rebounders, let alone Bosh, Love, Jamison or AD.
So again, the 94' Bulls weren't a real 55-win team, which makes the thread moot - everyone knew the bubble would burst and it did... The "real" Bulls were a 2nd Round loser and borderline .500 in 95', so a .500 team won't even make the conference finals or Finals with Derozan, let alone win a title or 3-peat... It's easy to forget that the Bulls and Suns both averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ORTG in the 93' Finals, so all of MJ's 41 was needed... Similarly, the 92' ECF and Finals were razor-thin, including a 7-game series against NY with Pippen choking vs X-Man.[/QUOTE]
And none of that refutes what you quoted. Horace with no Mj , that team won 55 games and Grant was an allstar while Pippen was a franchise guy. Crazy what having a little room to breathe and maybe shoot a bit more does for your career lol. Horace leaves and Mj comes back? They get spanked by Horaces team and lead to the Bulls making a desperate move for a volatile power forward who was considered the enemy. All this because Horace was the difference in 95. Luckily for all of us Grant only played one game in the 96 rematch. Who knows how things would have went.
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14957960]
Rodman saved the Bulls bacon in 96.
[/quote]
The Bulls swept every series and were up 3-0 on the Sonics, so Rodman didn't save anything - the Bulls would've won with half the league in Rodman's spot, especially since Jordan won titles with role players like Kukoc and Horace starting at PF.
Furthermore, Rodman averaged 3/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs and wasn't even the starter in the 98' Playoffs, so the Bulls won IN SPITE of his anemic play.
And the Bulls won the 96' ring despite going 4 on 5 with Rodman, while Jordan's commanding of double-teams took Rodman's man away and gave Rodman the offensive rebound - Jeff Van Gundy explains how teams cannot get defensive rebounds while their bigs are double-teaming Jordan (video [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=03m12s]here[/url])...
Again, it could've been any decent role player in Rodman's spot, like Horace or Kukoc - all these guys are role players, while Bosh, Love and AD are franchise players.. Even Jamison was a 2x all-star and MVP candidate.
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14957960]
There wouldn't have been a 93 Finals for MJ to average over 40ppg had Pippen not done what he did in 93 vs the Knicks in the ECF.
[/quote]
[indent]1993 ECF
Jordan....... 32.2... 6.2... 7.0... 2.3 tov.. 24.4 gmsc
Pippen....... 22.5... 6.7... 4.0... 4.0 tov.. 15.7 gmsc[/indent]
^^^ Pippen was carried in the 93' ECF just like every series.
And Game 3 was a blowout where Pippen did nothing when the game was contested in the 1st quarter - that's when Jordan took over and put the game away (8 points and 6 assists compared to 6 and 0 for Pippen), and then Pippen produced in garbage time for the 2nd through 4th quarters - it was a laugher - this is the historical record... Jordan saved the day as always when the game was being contested.
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14957960]
That's 2 Championships that MJ wouldn't have had if his "[B]role player[/B]" teammates had not come through for him.
[/quote]
^^^ you just said it yourself - they were ROLE PLAYERS, so any role player will do - every team has role players
they were replaceable low producers, which required goat stats and carry-jobs from Jordan win titles
[QUOTE=97 bulls;14957960]
Guys like 3ball who think that Jordan could've won with any decent players. Why didn't he win before Pippen and Grant?
[/QUOTE]
Pippen and Grant were low-producing bums and no one else could've won with them as 2nd and 3rd option because they were 3rd through 7th option on other teams, as the historical record shows.
So you're just punishing MJ for WHOEVER he won with - WHOEVER he won with was going to be inflated by you guys, even low-producing bums like Pippen and Grant... You're punishing MJ for winning with the first all-star he got and never needing another one like everyone else needed...
According to you, it would be better if MJ only won once with Pippen and otherwise lost every other year, and then win once with Kemp, and then win once with Hakeem - but producing perennial losers the entire time!!!!... And never producing a great team!!!... According to you, this is better than MJ being unbeatable with the first modicum of help that he received.