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[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14879524]Considering his career really didn't start until the 2005 season when he was mature enough and good enough to lead a team, I have him around the 20's range.[/QUOTE]
You’ve made this point around 3 dozen times, and it frankly has never made sense. Does this mean you don’t have a career if you were never the best player on your team? Does Scottie Pippen only have 1 season that counts towards his career?
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14879519]It sure didn't help that Kobe shot like 42% in that series.[/QUOTE]
I recall Kobe being their only shred of hope in that series. And he shot near 43%, 1% point below Pau who is a C and 7'0".
In the final game, Kobe put up 42 points on 55% shooting. Pau shot 36% and had 14 points. Strangely, feels like you've only found a way to demonize Kobe for that series and praise Pau.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14879532]I recall Kobe being their only shred of hope in that series. And he shot near 43%, 1% point below Pau who is a C and 7'0".
In the final game, Kobe put up 42 points on 55% shooting. Pau shot 36% and had 14 points. Strangely, you've only found a way to demonize Kobe for that series and praise Pau.[/QUOTE]
Kobe was one of the main reasons why the series started 2-0 for OKC, he was horrific to start that series.
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14879532]I recall Kobe being their only shred of hope in that series. And he shot near 43%, 1% point below Pau who is a C and 7'0".
[B]In the final game, Kobe put up 42 points on 55% shooting[/B]. Pau shot 36% and had 14 points. Strangely, feels like you've only found a way to demonize Kobe for that series and praise Pau.[/QUOTE]
and 0 assists.
That series was a joke in home cooking.
Kobe had like b2b 20 FTs in the home games and they were a joke. He also completely choked game 4 away to tie the series.
Lakers entered the 4th quarter up 9, 12 minutes short of a 2-2 series, Kobe then proceeded to chuck his ass off and go 2/10 in the 4th quarter.
Truly horrific.
In fact, Kobe was on the bench to start. The Lakers raised that ead to 11 when Kobe entered with 8 minutes left and he started his 2/10 throwaway...
To make matters worse, dude was actually 1/9 but then took a 2 at the buzzer down 5...
not enough is made of how embarrassing that is.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14879525]You’ve made this point around 3 dozen times, and it frankly has never made sense. Does this mean you don’t have a career if you were never the best player on your team? Does Scottie Pippen only have 1 season that counts towards his career?[/QUOTE]
He refused to be drafted and be the starting SG for the Nets. He chose to only sign with the contending Lakers, knowing their was no chance of starting for them. When you do that without playing a single minute in the NBA , the you get consequences of doing so.
Pippen didnt have that shitty entitlement mindset coming into rhe league. He signed with the team that traded for him with no qualms.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14879536]He refused to be drafted and be the starting SG for the Nets. He chose to only sign with the contending Lakers, knowing their was no chance of starting for them. When you do that without playing a single minute in the NBA , the you get consequences of doing so.
Pippen didnt have that shitty entitlement mindset coming into rhe league. He signed with the team that traded for him with no qualms.[/QUOTE]
I guess with this logic players in other pro sports that don’t want to be drafted by that certain franchise are entitlement and are bad too. For example: Eli Manning, John Elway, etc. All those players are HOF at the end of the day nobody cares.
Kobe is a guy who stats underrate. His well-rounded game with ability to excel on-ball and off-ball made him able to fit many systems (=flexibility) and also fit along other ball-dominant stars (scalability). Even though someone like Lebron is individually statistically superior to Kobe, there is an argument to make that Shaq/Kobe was a better duo than Shaq/Lebron would be. It's not clear cut but it's possible that Kobe is a worse individual player but fits better alongside better teammates which makes him more valuable for building a championship caliber team. That's where I'd start if I was arguing for Kobe anyway.
A more extreme analogy would be James Harden vs. Reggie Miller. Harden is individually better but many people would rather build a championship team with Reggie because his skills fit better alongside other high level (on-ball) players.
[QUOTE=dankok8;14879613]Kobe is a guy who stats underrate. His well-rounded game with ability to excel on-ball and off-ball made him able to fit many systems (=flexibility) and also fit along other ball-dominant stars (scalability). Even though someone like Lebron is individually statistically superior to Kobe, there is an argument to make that Shaq/Kobe was a better duo than Shaq/Lebron would be. It's not clear cut but it's possible that Kobe is a worse individual player but fits better alongside better teammates which makes him more valuable for building a championship caliber team. That's where I'd start if I was arguing for Kobe anyway.
A more extreme analogy would be James Harden vs. Reggie Miller. Harden is individually better but many people would rather build a championship team with Reggie because his skills fit better alongside other high level (on-ball) players.[/QUOTE]
Beyond the stats, what do you make of his 2012 WCSF Game 4, home game to tie the series?
Lakers were up 11 with 8 minutes left in the 4th when Bryant was subbed in, Bryant then went 2/10 to end the game (1/9 before taking a useess 2 at the buzzer) to throw the game away.
Im guessing beyond the stats this ones looks a little better?
[QUOTE=dankok8;14879613]Kobe is a guy who stats underrate. His well-rounded game with ability to excel on-ball and off-ball made him able to fit many systems (=flexibility) and also fit along other ball-dominant stars (scalability). Even though someone like Lebron is individually statistically superior to Kobe, there is an argument to make that Shaq/Kobe was a better duo than Shaq/Lebron would be. It's not clear cut but it's possible that Kobe is a worse individual player but fits better alongside better teammates which makes him more valuable for building a championship caliber team. That's where I'd start if I was arguing for Kobe anyway.
A more extreme analogy would be James Harden vs. Reggie Miller. Harden is individually better but many people would rather build a championship team with Reggie because his skills fit better alongside other high level (on-ball) players.[/QUOTE]
That is a bad comparison. Miller took shots that he could make efficiently and didn't hold the ball.
Kobe's idea of shot selection was that if there was a shot available he would select it. He has the most missed shots in league history by far. I've never see anyone take more bad, long jumpers than Kobe. He wouldn't hesitate at all to jack up contested jumpers early in the clock.
[QUOTE=dankok8;14879613]Kobe is a guy who stats underrate. His well-rounded game with ability to excel on-ball and off-ball made him able to fit many systems (=flexibility) and also fit along other ball-dominant stars (scalability). Even though someone like Lebron is individually statistically superior to Kobe, there is an argument to make that Shaq/Kobe was a better duo than Shaq/Lebron would be. It's not clear cut but it's possible that Kobe is a worse individual player but fits better alongside better teammates which makes him more valuable for building a championship caliber team. That's where I'd start if I was arguing for Kobe anyway.
A more extreme analogy would be James Harden vs. Reggie Miller. Harden is individually better but many people would rather build a championship team with Reggie because his skills fit better alongside other high level (on-ball) players.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
[QUOTE=Cold soul;14879595]I guess with this logic players in other pro sports that don’t want to be drafted by that certain franchise are entitlement and are bad too. For example: Eli Manning, John Elway, etc. All those players are HOF at the end of the day nobody cares.[/QUOTE]
Eli's a POS for doing the same. Elway had a promising baseball career to fall back on if he chose to do so.
[QUOTE=dankok8;14879613]Kobe is a guy who stats underrate. His well-rounded game with ability to excel on-ball and off-ball made him able to fit many systems (=flexibility) and also fit along other ball-dominant stars (scalability). Even though someone like Lebron is individually statistically superior to Kobe, there is an argument to make that Shaq/Kobe was a better duo than Shaq/Lebron would be. It's not clear cut but it's possible that Kobe is a worse individual player but fits better alongside better teammates which makes him more valuable for building a championship caliber team. That's where I'd start if I was arguing for Kobe anyway.
A more extreme analogy would be James Harden vs. Reggie Miller. Harden is individually better but many people would rather build a championship team with Reggie because his skills fit better alongside other high level (on-ball) players.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Kobe would mesh well with another ball-dominant star at all, especially a perimeter one. He had to be the one taking the most shots, scoring the most points, possessing the ball at the end of games. If someone cut into that, he would definitely have a problem with it.
I honestly don't see him fitting alongside better teammates more effectively than LeBron, I think they'd both require a more specific team built around them than the likes of Kawhi or KD. I just don't think Kobe with his mentality/mindset is nearly as portable as you make him out to be.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14879657][B]I don't think Kobe would mesh well with another ball-dominant star at all, especially a perimeter one.[/B] He had to be the one taking the most shots, scoring the most points, possessing the ball at the end of games. If someone cut into that, he would definitely have a problem with it.
I honestly don't see him fitting alongside better teammates more effectively than LeBron, I think they'd both require a more specific team built around them than the likes of Kawhi or KD. I just don't think Kobe with his mentality/mindset is nearly as portable as you make him out to be.[/QUOTE]
This was literally proven multiple times, look at how Payton and Nash struggled to play with him :lol. He literally made Nash stand in the corner and play like a SG in the latter half of 2013. "B-boo-boo-buh-buh-but they were old" scream the same people who say "LeBron had Rondo and Dwight in 2020" :yaohappy:
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14879657]I don't think Kobe would mesh well with another ball-dominant star at all, especially a perimeter one. He had to be the one taking the most shots, scoring the most points, possessing the ball at the end of games. If someone cut into that, he would definitely have a problem with it.
I honestly don't see him fitting alongside better teammates more effectively than LeBron, I think they'd both require a more specific team built around them than the likes of Kawhi or KD. I just don't think Kobe with his mentality/mindset is nearly as portable as you make him out to be.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying he is. I'm saying an argument can be made. Because of his superior shooting and off-ball game one can make an argument that he fits next to someone like Wade better than Lebron did. Because Kobe could just let Wade hold the ball so he can exert his maximum impact and then play off of him. And with Shaq, we've seen Kobe make a great fit.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14879618]Beyond the stats, what do you make of his 2012 WCSF Game 4, home game to tie the series?
Lakers were up 11 with 8 minutes left in the 4th when Bryant was subbed in, Bryant then went 2/10 to end the game (1/9 before taking a useess 2 at the buzzer) to throw the game away.
Im guessing beyond the stats this ones looks a little better?[/QUOTE]
He obviously had a poor game.